Biggest Plot Hole?

[Trekker4747]

You are correct with #1, but wrong with #2. Spock Prime watches Vulcan collapse from Delta Vega, which to me proves, they are 'somewhat' adjacent.

No.

We're shown these events in the form of Spock's mindmeld to Kirk. Which also included events Spock could not be aware of -things from Nero's POV.

It was "easier" to convey to use visually Spock seeing the planet collapse than it was to show he had the "emotional impact" of it.

We see the planet collapse in a "dream" not in "reality."

 

[Johnhead99]

You are correct with #1, but wrong with #2. Spock Prime watches Vulcan collapse from Delta Vega, which to me proves, they are 'somewhat' adjacent.

No.

We're shown these events in the form of Spock's mindmeld to Kirk. Which also included events Spock could not be aware of -things from Nero's POV.

It was "easier" to convey to use visually Spock seeing the planet collapse than it was to show he had the "emotional impact" of it.

We see the planet collapse in a "dream" not in "reality."

I get that. But Nero really made it a point for Spock Prime to 'witness' the desctruction. Why would he maroon him to a planet far far away? I just dont get that.

 

[Trekker4747]

You are correct with #1, but wrong with #2. Spock Prime watches Vulcan collapse from Delta Vega, which to me proves, they are 'somewhat' adjacent.

No.

We're shown these events in the form of Spock's mindmeld to Kirk. Which also included events Spock could not be aware of -things from Nero's POV.

It was "easier" to convey to use visually Spock seeing the planet collapse than it was to show he had the "emotional impact" of it.

We see the planet collapse in a "dream" not in "reality."

I get that. But Nero really made it a point for Spock Prime to 'witness' the desctruction. Why would he maroon him to a planet far far away? I just dont get that.

Because he knew Spock would "witness it" no matter where he is.

Further.

Delta Vega is described as a planet. If it was that close to Vulcan it'd be a moon, not a planet.

 

[Johnhead99]

No.

We're shown these events in the form of Spock's mindmeld to Kirk. Which also included events Spock could not be aware of -things from Nero's POV.

It was "easier" to convey to use visually Spock seeing the planet collapse than it was to show he had the "emotional impact" of it.

We see the planet collapse in a "dream" not in "reality."

I get that. But Nero really made it a point for Spock Prime to 'witness' the desctruction. Why would he maroon him to a planet far far away? I just dont get that.

Because he knew Spock would "witness it" no matter where he is.

Further.

Delta Vega is described as a planet. If it was that close to Vulcan it'd be a moon, not a planet.

Trekker 1 Johnhead 0

 

[David cgc]

It's "possible" there's just two Delta Vegas.

Why not? There are already at least two Rigel systems in Trek. Possibly as many as four.

 

[FerengiRepoMan]

Long time TNG viewer & lurker here - first time post.

OK. back to the original Black Hole topic:

Uh... anyone else wonder why they had to drill to the center of the planet before creating the artificial black hole?

Not saying these are THE reasons, but pick or choose any of them:


(a) LIMITED SUPPLY

Nero did not know how to synthesize "red matter" from decalithium - only use it - so he had a limited supply - (beach-ball sized)?. In the Countdown comics, the Vulcan black hole generating tech was a closely guarded secret. And I'm assuming Spock never divulged that secret when he was captured. Since Nero kept the the red matter in the Jellyfish, rather than construct his own red matter container reinforces the fact that he did not fully understand the theory behind it - he just utilized the tech - like a good miner would.

Remember, he had a whole lotta Federation planets to implode and every drop counts!

(b) REVENGE FACTOR - POETIC JUSTICE?

he wished to completely erase both Vulcan and Earth, just like Romulus was completely erased from memory by the Hobus Supernova.

Being a miner, only a complete, thorough job would be acceptable.
a temporary misplaced black hole on the surface may leave alot of bread crumbs flying around


(c) Location. Location. Location
If Nero DID not carefully place the temporary black hole in the center of the planet he might affect the other planets in the solar system. Remember this stuff was designed to contain an exploding sun. Much like the controlled building detonations in city skylines, Nero wanted to make sure he did not jeopardize the other planets. Remember he was planning to wipe out the Federation, the Klingons (see Countdown) and possibly Cardissian empires. And if they are gone, who will pickup this prized real estate such as Mercury mineral rights once the other big boys are gone?

That's right.
Romulus uber alles.

 

[Holodoc]

LNero did not know how to synthesize "red matter" from decalithium - only use it - so he had a limited supply - (beach-ball sized)?. In the Countdown comics, the Vulcan black hole generating tech was a closely guarded secret. And I'm assuming Spock never divulged that secret when he was captured.

If only Nero had had something in his possession, perhaps something eel-like, that could force someone to tell you what you want to know. If only...

 

[FerengiRepoMan]

LNero did not know how to synthesize "red matter" from decalithium - only use it - so he had a limited supply - (beach-ball sized)?. In the Countdown comics, the Vulcan black hole generating tech was a closely guarded secret. And I'm assuming Spock never divulged that secret when he was captured.

If only Nero had had something in his possession, perhaps something eel-like, that could force someone to tell you what you want to know. If only...

Spock did not end up in a wheelchair

 

[Overgeeked]

Long time TNG viewer & lurker here - first time post.

OK. back to the original Black Hole topic:

Uh... anyone else wonder why they had to drill to the center of the planet before creating the artificial black hole?

Not saying these are THE reasons, but pick or choose any of them:


(a) LIMITED SUPPLY

(b) REVENGE FACTOR - POETIC JUSTICE?

(c) Location. Location. Location

That's right.
Romulus uber alles.

A) Only if you haven't seen the movie and the giant glob of red matter that's taller than a person.

B) No matter how much of the planet is, or isn't, left after the destruction it will still be remembered, so the "no space flakes" theory is just silly.

C) Considering he's a madman bent on the utter destruction of the Federation, I doubt he's really worried about planets that are nearby Federation planets.

 

[FerengiRepoMan]

Long time TNG viewer & lurker here - first time post.

OK. back to the original Black Hole topic:

Uh... anyone else wonder why they had to drill to the center of the planet before creating the artificial black hole?

Not saying these are THE reasons, but pick or choose any of them:


(a) LIMITED SUPPLY

(b) REVENGE FACTOR - POETIC JUSTICE?

(c) Location. Location. Location

That's right.
Romulus uber alles.

A) Only if you haven't seen the movie and the giant glob of red matter that's taller than a person.

B) No matter how much of the planet is, or isn't, left after the destruction it will still be remembered, so the "no space flakes" theory is just silly.

C) Considering he's a madman bent on the utter destruction of the Federation, I doubt he's really worried about planets that are nearby Federation planets.

(A) beach-ball sized or taller than a person - still limited supply - and besides, who has NOT seen the movie except for a few loud, cloistered canonists who have bunkered down with their vcr's?

(B) read the original post (pick and choose a theory as you like) - this one was in left field, ill admit
(C) don't dis my canon - da comix! seriously, Nero promised General Worf point blank in Countdown that he would mop up the Klingon empire once he was through with the Federation.

That would be worth a few cups that big pile o' red goo, eh?

 

[Overgeeked]

The volume of a sphere is: 4/3 * pi * r³

For a sphere roughly 3 feet in radius, the volume is: 113.09733552924001 ft³.

And it only takes a drop to destroy a planet.

Roughly 0.04 ml per drop
About 20 drops per ml
furthermore:
1 ml = 1 cc = 1 cm³

So our sphere is about: 3,202,559.913 cm³

Even if you use 20 drops (1 ml) per planet (they only use one drop in the movie), that's 3,202,559 planets worth or red matter.

I don't think he's running out anytime soon.

 

[FerengiRepoMan]

Edit: Lots of High School Math I'd like to forget

I don't think he's running out anytime soon.

You have the only supply of weapons grade material that is nearly unique even by 24th century standards.

You captain a rowdy crew of miners - you are not a theoretical physicist. You do not know how to make the stuff.

You have just wiped out the only race, 200 years hence, that had the scientific know-how to create red matter in the first place.

You DO know that you are more than likely about to be visited by the Borg (who will probably concentrate on you now that the Feds and Klingons are gone), probably V'ger (searching & searching), and possibly Whale Ship later on.
*** yes Nero did read up on Earth history (Countdown)

Still willing to waste the golden eggs while neglecting to find the goose?

 

[chardman]

Maybe its not the biggest plot hole. But anybody wonder why the Grand Canyon is in Iowa???

As has already been said, it's a quarry, of which Iowa has many. And the fact that it's a quarry is pretty obvious, as, to the best of my knowledge, natural canyons don't have such almost perfectly flat sides, telltale remains of blast holes, nor such flat "floors". Then again, the sign on the gate that young Kirk crashes through... the one which reads along the lines of: "Danger: Quarry"... should have been a pretty good indicator as well.

 

[T'Bonz]

Actually, HOW did Nero, a miner, know that Spock was on his way to "save Romulus?" I can't imagine that the people at the highest levels of Romulus would have imparted that information to the regular people. I could see them assuring their people that help would come, but given Romulan totalitarianism, they'd be more apt to lie and say they were on it themselves.

And how did he figure out about red? Although he captured Spock, Spock didn't give the look of having been tortured.

 

[Deckerd]

If you think too hard about this stuff your head will explode.

 

[McMenemy00]

I like the movie i will repeat again, but Star Trek? Thats not what they were showing where i was.

Since when do two of our main characters fighting for co-operation for the benefit of all races, share a joke as an enemy is being ripped apart by a stellar phenomenon

And how many times did an episode end with everyone laughing at Spock not getting a joke while that clarinet plays, despite the fact that dozens of crewmates or billions of innocent people have died in the past hour?

I can think of "The Doomsday Machine" and "The Enemy Within" right off the top of my head.

The key being AFTER everyone had died, not when there was time to rescue them whether they wanted it or not. Never mind the distictly unfederation firing of weapons at a ship in critical distress. Kirk tells Nero he can't possibly save himself, in other words the nerada is screwed and thn we shoot at it.

Heroic, no?

 

[FrankR]

Actually, HOW did Nero, a miner, know that Spock was on his way to "save Romulus?" I can't imagine that the people at the highest levels of Romulus would have imparted that information to the regular people. I could see them assuring their people that help would come, but given Romulan totalitarianism, they'd be more apt to lie and say they were on it themselves.

And how did he figure out about red? Although he captured Spock, Spock didn't give the look of having been tortured.

That back story is in the countdown comics. Wikipedia has a pretty good summary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_trek_countdown

-frank

 

[David cgc]

The key being AFTER everyone had died, not when there was time to rescue them whether they wanted it or not. Never mind the distictly unfederation firing of weapons at a ship in critical distress. Kirk tells Nero he can't possibly save himself, in other words the nerada is screwed and thn we shoot at it.

Heroic, no?

Well, if you want to take the chance it spits Nero out somewhere else in history in anything other than tiny pieces, you do that. I prefer fewer starships blowing up when they shouldn't, myself.

 

[McMenemy00]

One of the strangest plot holes occured to me only after I'd left the theatre; the reappearance of the 'lightning storm in space'. Why did one show up around Vulcan, and at the Klingon prison planet? Was the Narada travelling via red matter-holes, in the case of the Klingon thing even before it had obtained the red matter itself?

If I recall correctly, that second lightning storm in space will have been where Spock Prime ends up entering the past, where Nero was waiting for him. I think it might have been in Klingon space, too.

Wormhole appears, Spock comes out, Narada catches spock, Klingons get blown up by Narada, Uhura hears about it, etc....

Hmm. That does make a certain amount of sense, except those who've read the Countdown comic all seem to be saying that the fight around the Klingon planet was Nero breaking out of prison. Indeed, when we see that the Narada has arrived where Nero has figured out Spock will emerge, it's empty space if memory serves.

Still doesn't explain the sighting at Vulcan, though...

Exactly what i was going to say.
About the countdown comics though, have we all forgotten the basic rule of filmmaking? If it isn't seen or referred too onscreen it just didn't happen. i like movie tie ins, but don't go telling half your story in another medium, even for trek fans, and expect it to save your bacon when it comes to crappy plot holes.

If it ain't in the film it can't be used to justify the plot of the film.
Otherwise the film isn't a complete story and I wants my money back.

 

[McMenemy00]

Nope. Then again, they aren't plot holes in the story but rather "thought holes" in some of the imaginations of the people here.

Thought holes? So, it gets a free pass if an audience member can explain away in their head the thing that doesn't make sense? I'll remember that one next time people start bashing Nemesis or TFF.

Listen, I enjoyed the movie very much too, but lets call a spade a spade. The movie was riddled with plot holes and events that made little sense.

Thanks for the back up. i completely agree that good storytelling shouldn't need mental gymnastics to make sense. As for saying they didn't take out the heart etc, I'm absolutely delighted to discuss your difference of opinion, but you haven't actually registered an opinion just disagreed with mine DEVON. Which in itself is fairly sound reasoning for an opinion but I'm going to need a little more.