Star Trek XI - Canon violation by canon violation

[S'kai]

Star Trek XI - Timeline Alterations Line by Line

Regardless of how you feel about the violations, or ah, timeline alterations, let's list them, in order. If possible, document your source.

XI: James T. Kirk is born aboard a shuttlecraft escaping the destruction of the USS Kelvin

ST IV, TVH : Kirk tells Gillian he was born in Iowa.

Non-canon: Gene Roddenberry stated that Kirk was born in Riverside, IA.

 

[ST-One]

Regardless of how you feel about the violations, or ah, timeline alterations, let's list them, in order. If possible, document your source.

XI: James T. Kirk is born aboard a shuttlecraft escaping the destruction of the USS Kelvin

ST IV, TVH : Kirk tells Gillian he was born in Iowa.

Non-canon: Gene Roddenberry stated that Kirk was born in Riverside, IA.

Kirk: 'No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space.'

 

[El Chupacabra]

Kirk: 'No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space.'

Yup. If Roddenberry said he was born in Riverside then thats a good as canon IMO, but others don't see it that way and Spock's line to New Kirk about Kirk Prime drawing influence from he father in no way makes it a given that he was born in Riverside rather than on a ship during one of George's tours of duty in the prime timeline.

 

[Shim]

Regardless of how you feel about the violations, or ah, timeline alterations, let's list them, in order. If possible, document your source.

XI: James T. Kirk is born aboard a shuttlecraft escaping the destruction of the USS Kelvin

ST IV, TVH : Kirk tells Gillian he was born in Iowa.

Non-canon: Gene Roddenberry stated that Kirk was born in Riverside, IA.

The stress of Nero's presence made Winona enter premature labour. She tried to keep her legs crossed til they got back to Earth to stop the birth of her child violating canon, but the little bugger was just to eager.

 

[Eric Cheung]

Regardless of how you feel about the violations, or ah, timeline alterations, let's list them, in order. If possible, document your source.

XI: James T. Kirk is born aboard a shuttlecraft escaping the destruction of the USS Kelvin

ST IV, TVH : Kirk tells Gillian he was born in Iowa.

Non-canon: Gene Roddenberry stated that Kirk was born in Riverside, IA.

Kirk: 'No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space.'

I think Kirk was trying to be cute and evasive with Dr. Taylor. It was close enough to the truth without making him sound crazy to 20th century ears.

My only real problem was the fact that the Jellyfish was from "Stardate" 2387. I could buy the stardate system evolving from the Gregorian calender to the way it was depicted in TOS, to how it was depicted in the TOS movies, to the TNG era (similarly to how the warp scale had to be recalibrated every once in a while), and I could buy that the disruption in this timeline made the stardate system stay like it was in the Kelvin-era, but when they stated that the Jellyfish was from that stardate, it was kind of odd.

 

[ST-One]

Regardless of how you feel about the violations, or ah, timeline alterations, let's list them, in order. If possible, document your source.

XI: James T. Kirk is born aboard a shuttlecraft escaping the destruction of the USS Kelvin

ST IV, TVH : Kirk tells Gillian he was born in Iowa.

Non-canon: Gene Roddenberry stated that Kirk was born in Riverside, IA.

Kirk: 'No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space.'

I think Kirk was trying to be cute and evasive with Dr. Taylor. It was close enough to the truth without making him sound crazy to 20th century ears.

Indeed.

She would probably have called the police if he'd said: 'Well, I was born on a starship on it's way to a planet called Tarsus IV where my family and I lived for the first few years of my life.

 

[Hermiod]

Simply put - "From" does not equal "Born in".

I am not "from" the town where my mother happened to be the day I was born. I am "from" where I grew up.

 

[Kaziarl]

^good point.
I guess the next one would be that TOS-kirk new his father, and nuKirk obviously didn't have a chance to.

 

[MikeS]

My only real problem was the fact that the Jellyfish was from "Stardate" 2387. I could buy the stardate system evolving from the Gregorian calender to the way it was depicted in TOS, to how it was depicted in the TOS movies, to the TNG era (similarly to how the warp scale had to be recalibrated every once in a while), and I could buy that the disruption in this timeline made the stardate system stay like it was in the Kelvin-era, but when they stated that the Jellyfish was from that stardate, it was kind of odd.

Perhaps "prime" Spock just explained it that way so the 23rd century crew would understand him?

Kind of like if I went back to 1970's UK I would have to ask for a Marathon rather than Snickers, or Opal Fruits rather than Starburst as they're respectively now known. (I hope that makes sense to anyone that doesn't live in the UK, I can't think of an international equivalent right now.)

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

There are no canon violations.

There are contradictions between this film and previous bits of canon, just as there are between most previous versions of Trek. To use the oft-cited - if trivial - example, different episodes of TOS give wildly varying eras for the time-period in which the shows take place, ranging from at least as little as two hundred years up to four or five centuries. All of those figures are co-equal as canon; they just contradict one another.

 

[S'kai]

There are no canon violations.

There are contradictions between this film and previous bits of canon, just as there are between most previous versions of Trek. To use the oft-cited - if trivial - example, different episodes of TOS give wildly varying eras for the time-period in which the shows take place, ranging from at least as little as two hundred years up to four or five centuries. All of those figures are co-equal as canon; they just contradict one another.

Whatever.

So I guess the Stardate thing counts as the first.

Then Kirk's birthplace.

What's next?

 

[Shim]

There are no canon violations.

There are contradictions between this film and previous bits of canon, just as there are between most previous versions of Trek. To use the oft-cited - if trivial - example, different episodes of TOS give wildly varying eras for the time-period in which the shows take place, ranging from at least as little as two hundred years up to four or five centuries. All of those figures are co-equal as canon; they just contradict one another.

Whatever.

So I guess the Stardate thing counts as the first.

Then Kirk's birthplace.

What's next?

Nothing. Because as soon as the "lightning storm in space" came round, everything was new, and therefore canon.

 

[S'kai]

Well I did allow in the original post for calling it differences in timelines.

 

[Thrawn]

You don't think using the word VIOLATION in your title - twice - is a little incendiary when all you want to do is talk about what has changed?

As others have pointed out, it's not even a term that makes sense to begin with, much less when applied to things that the movie explicitly stated are different from what's been seen before.

 

[urbandk]

There are no canon violations.

There are contradictions between this film and previous bits of canon, just as there are between most previous versions of Trek. To use the oft-cited - if trivial - example, different episodes of TOS give wildly varying eras for the time-period in which the shows take place, ranging from at least as little as two hundred years up to four or five centuries. All of those figures are co-equal as canon; they just contradict one another.

Whatever.

Whatever.

 

[TrekGuide.com]

In "The Conscience of the King," it was established that Kirk grew up on Tarsus Four.

This Iowa nonsense in "Star Trek IV" was the original continuity error.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

If you'd like to talk about the differences between the two universes, that would be fine and entertaining. But please remove the words "canon violation" from your post title. Canon has not been violated. Two universes, two histories. Each is canon within its own self.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

In "The Conscience of the King," it was established that Kirk grew up on Tarsus Four.

This Iowa nonsense in "Star Trek IV" was the original continuity error.

Nope. The Kirks, being a Starfleet family with George very much alive, spent time on Tarsus. I imagine George moved around quite a bit. But Iowa was the family home and is where Jim grew up.

 

[S'kai]

If you'd like to talk about the differences between the two universes, that would be fine and entertaining. But please remove the words "canon violation" from your post title. Canon has not been violated. Two universes, two histories. Each is canon within its own self.

Done.


But then there is Old canon, and New canon. . . Nevermind.

 

[Lightinspire]

If you keep in mind that this is an alternate universe or reality we can throw canon out the window, canon doesn't work.