Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoilers)
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Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
I'm aware of absolutely no precedent for anything like that happening. Whenever a film is made in a revised version of an existing continuity, there has never been a case I'm aware of where all alternate versions of that continuity have been cancelled or forced to take place in the new continuity. The Spider-Man, X-Men, and other Marvel movies didn't result in the cancellation of original-continuity comics or novels with those characters, and the current animated shows of those characters are very much not in the movie continuities. The novel tie-ins to the I, Robot and I Am Legend movies were just reprints of the original, very different works with Will Smith's photo stuck on the covers, rather than new novelizations of the movies themselves. Marketing execs don't care about in-universe continuity. All they care about is that it has the right photo and logo on the cover.
(And yes, there is the oft-cited example of BBC Books discontinuing its Doctor Who novels about earlier Doctors, but technically that's a continuation of the same franchise rather than an alternate continuity. And one occurrence doesn't demonstrate a pattern.)
So is your house being struck by a runaway circus caravan, but do you have insurance against circus caravan damage?
I've heard that and plenty of other myths. Read Inside Star Trek for the debunking. NBC's executives were impressed by the intelligence of Star Trek. But "The Cage" was made as an all-out, top-of-the-line production to prove that Desilu Studios was capable of mounting a sophisticated SF drama, and so it didn't represent the cost and logistics of a typical episode, which therefore made it inadequate as a pilot. Also its characters were pretty bland on the whole and the network wanted Roddenberry to come up with a better cast. There were some concerns voiced about it being "too cerebral" and not having enough action or pace, but the idea that NBC executives were a bunch of Neanderthals too dense to understand the show was a myth propagated by Roddenberry to suit his own ends.
Indeed. With no Enterprise, Spock was apparently teaching at the Academy rather than serving in deep space. According to their "dossiers" on the official film website, Uhura was a teaching aide for the Advanced Phonology course which Spock taught. So that explains their relationship. Also, with Kirk entering the Academy roughly 5 years later than originally, he never met Gary Mitchell (or Finnegan or Ruth, probably).
And the delay explains why the Enterprise looks more advanced, more like the TMP-refit version. Of course, this is still 15 years ahead of that refit, but maybe the same design team that worked on the TMP refit in ST-Prime worked on this project in ST-Abrams.
Of course, that leaves the question of why the Enterprise was delayed. Which is something for an Abramsverse novel to address.
Or rather, Roddenberry's 18-year-old declaration that it wasn't part of canon ceased to have any actual weight once he died and Richard Arnold was fired. And it's therefore been increasingly ignored ever since.
Well, the Kelvin crew got visual images of the Nerada crew, or at least Ayel. So they saw aliens who looked Vulcan and obviously weren't. And maybe Ayel was speaking Romulan that got translated, and the computers recognized the language.
And the overall events of "Balance of Terror" -- the Romulans testing the Federation's borders with a new cloak and plasma weapon -- could still happen, just in a context where the UFP already knows what Romulans look like.
I'm aware of absolutely no precedent for anything like that happening. Whenever a film is made in a revised version of an existing continuity, there has never been a case I'm aware of where all alternate versions of that continuity have been cancelled or forced to take place in the new continuity. The Spider-Man, X-Men, and other Marvel movies didn't result in the cancellation of original-continuity comics or novels with those characters, and the current animated shows of those characters are very much not in the movie continuities. The novel tie-ins to the I, Robot and I Am Legend movies were just reprints of the original, very different works with Will Smith's photo stuck on the covers, rather than new novelizations of the movies themselves. Marketing execs don't care about in-universe continuity. All they care about is that it has the right photo and logo on the cover.
(And yes, there is the oft-cited example of BBC Books discontinuing its Doctor Who novels about earlier Doctors, but technically that's a continuation of the same franchise rather than an alternate continuity. And one occurrence doesn't demonstrate a pattern.)
So is your house being struck by a runaway circus caravan, but do you have insurance against circus caravan damage?
I've heard that and plenty of other myths. Read Inside Star Trek for the debunking. NBC's executives were impressed by the intelligence of Star Trek. But "The Cage" was made as an all-out, top-of-the-line production to prove that Desilu Studios was capable of mounting a sophisticated SF drama, and so it didn't represent the cost and logistics of a typical episode, which therefore made it inadequate as a pilot. Also its characters were pretty bland on the whole and the network wanted Roddenberry to come up with a better cast. There were some concerns voiced about it being "too cerebral" and not having enough action or pace, but the idea that NBC executives were a bunch of Neanderthals too dense to understand the show was a myth propagated by Roddenberry to suit his own ends.
Indeed. With no Enterprise, Spock was apparently teaching at the Academy rather than serving in deep space. According to their "dossiers" on the official film website, Uhura was a teaching aide for the Advanced Phonology course which Spock taught. So that explains their relationship. Also, with Kirk entering the Academy roughly 5 years later than originally, he never met Gary Mitchell (or Finnegan or Ruth, probably).
And the delay explains why the Enterprise looks more advanced, more like the TMP-refit version. Of course, this is still 15 years ahead of that refit, but maybe the same design team that worked on the TMP refit in ST-Prime worked on this project in ST-Abrams.
Of course, that leaves the question of why the Enterprise was delayed. Which is something for an Abramsverse novel to address.
Or rather, Roddenberry's 18-year-old declaration that it wasn't part of canon ceased to have any actual weight once he died and Richard Arnold was fired. And it's therefore been increasingly ignored ever since.
Well, the Kelvin crew got visual images of the Nerada crew, or at least Ayel. So they saw aliens who looked Vulcan and obviously weren't. And maybe Ayel was speaking Romulan that got translated, and the computers recognized the language.
And the overall events of "Balance of Terror" -- the Romulans testing the Federation's borders with a new cloak and plasma weapon -- could still happen, just in a context where the UFP already knows what Romulans look like.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
Yes, in fact. And I just saved a bunch of money on my circus caravan insurance by switching to Geico...
Christopher, I'd tell you to get off your high horse, but I've come to believe you're molecularly-bonded to the saddle.
Yes, in fact. And I just saved a bunch of money on my circus caravan insurance by switching to Geico...
I have. It's actually on the shelf a few feet away from me.
I didn't say that the NBC execs, or media execs in general were stupid. I said that sometimes media execs believe their audiences are stupid. If you're going to argue with me, try not to miss the point of my statements, thank you.
I seriously hope that appellation does not stick.
Christopher said:
Christopher, I'd tell you to get off your high horse, but I've come to believe you're molecularly-bonded to the saddle.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
Ease up. Remember: the post not the poster.
Christopher, I'd tell you to get off your high horse, but I've come to believe you're molecularly-bonded to the saddle.
Ease up. Remember: the post not the poster.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
AMOK TIME should prove an interesting story to tell with no T'Pring, no Stonn and no Vulcan.
And it's unlikely T'Pau made it as she wasn't on the council and also would not have been off world.
AMOK TIME should prove an interesting story to tell with no T'Pring, no Stonn and no Vulcan.
And it's unlikely T'Pau made it as she wasn't on the council and also would not have been off world.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
That's as far as I'd ever go publically. I've made my point.
That's as far as I'd ever go publically. I've made my point.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
T'Pau, probably. We know for certain that Tuvok and Saavik had not been born by 2258, so it's quite possible that they never will be in the new timeline. There's no real solid indication of Valeris' age, so that one is up in the air. Of course, the parents of any of these three may be among the Vulcan survivors (or in Saavik's case, one parent at least), but it's a statistical improbability.
As Christopher said, it's possible that there was some clue as to Nero and the Narada's Romulan origin. Perhaps the Federation reached out to Romulus in the wake of the attack. Either that or Nero's subsequent actions brought the Romulans out of hiding sooner.
I'm expecting that we won't really get any straight remakes of any existing Trek story, but that certain ideas will be told in new ways. I would think it likely that Spock's pon farr would be dealt with in some way, and that we'll see Khan sometime, for example.
How do we know she wasn't on the council? Or that she wasn't off world? "Amok Time" says she turned down a seat on the Federation Council, not the Vulcan Council.
T'Pau, probably. We know for certain that Tuvok and Saavik had not been born by 2258, so it's quite possible that they never will be in the new timeline. There's no real solid indication of Valeris' age, so that one is up in the air. Of course, the parents of any of these three may be among the Vulcan survivors (or in Saavik's case, one parent at least), but it's a statistical improbability.
As Christopher said, it's possible that there was some clue as to Nero and the Narada's Romulan origin. Perhaps the Federation reached out to Romulus in the wake of the attack. Either that or Nero's subsequent actions brought the Romulans out of hiding sooner.
I'm expecting that we won't really get any straight remakes of any existing Trek story, but that certain ideas will be told in new ways. I would think it likely that Spock's pon farr would be dealt with in some way, and that we'll see Khan sometime, for example.
How do we know she wasn't on the council? Or that she wasn't off world? "Amok Time" says she turned down a seat on the Federation Council, not the Vulcan Council.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
On my second viewing today, I realized that one of the elders Spock rescues before the destruction of Vulcan was an elderly woman who instantly made me think of T'Pau. As important as she was to Vulcan's history, I'd be surprised if they didn't rescue her.
But back on subject, I personally would love to read new takes on classic episodes. What would 'Balance of Terror' or 'Space Seed' be like in this new universe? Is there a Harry Mudd roaming the galaxy...and what would he be like in this 'brave new world'?
All-in-all, I'm really excited about the possibilities this movie has opened up, while still allowing us to wrap ourselves in the comfort of our old friends from TNG, DS9, VOY, et al. We can have our cake and eat it too!
On my second viewing today, I realized that one of the elders Spock rescues before the destruction of Vulcan was an elderly woman who instantly made me think of T'Pau. As important as she was to Vulcan's history, I'd be surprised if they didn't rescue her.
But back on subject, I personally would love to read new takes on classic episodes. What would 'Balance of Terror' or 'Space Seed' be like in this new universe? Is there a Harry Mudd roaming the galaxy...and what would he be like in this 'brave new world'?
All-in-all, I'm really excited about the possibilities this movie has opened up, while still allowing us to wrap ourselves in the comfort of our old friends from TNG, DS9, VOY, et al. We can have our cake and eat it too!
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
None of that means anything anyway, since neither comics nor novels are canon. There is no such thing as "officially authorized prequel", as if no novel could ever tell the story differently sometime later. Some author could write a completely different storyline leading into ST XI. And it would be no more, or less, real (within the context of the Trekverse), since only movies and TV series matter.
None of that means anything anyway, since neither comics nor novels are canon. There is no such thing as "officially authorized prequel", as if no novel could ever tell the story differently sometime later. Some author could write a completely different storyline leading into ST XI. And it would be no more, or less, real (within the context of the Trekverse), since only movies and TV series matter.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
Canon's got nothing to do with it, so why bring that up?
Canon's got nothing to do with it, so why bring that up?
All I meant by "officially authorized" was that it was "official" like all licensed Trek fiction, but not canon of course. That, and the story for Countdown originated with Kurtzman and Orci, the writers of the film.
Yes, someone could. But I think it's unlikely, for the time being.
I never implied otherwise. Sheesh. What is it with you people? Do I have to qualify every simple statement I make?
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
T'Pau was not a member of the Council but was presented in AMOK TIME as something like the Pope of Vulcan culture. She was CLEARLY more revered than a simple council member and "an elderly female vulcan" doesn't qualify as being T'Pau.
Remember, the events of the film do not alter those things that occurred before the incursion so T'Pau's Vulcan-centric existence would be likewise unaltered. She would be EXTREMELY unlikely to be offworld or hanging around the council chamber at that precise moment.
Spock was able to rescue the Vulcans we saw. Everyone else on the planet, Vulcan or otherwise, died. It is the Vulcan offworld diaspora that continues to exist. 10000.
No T'Pau. No T'Pring. No Stonn. Amok Time for all Vulcans is going to be a bitch.
T'Pau was not a member of the Council but was presented in AMOK TIME as something like the Pope of Vulcan culture. She was CLEARLY more revered than a simple council member and "an elderly female vulcan" doesn't qualify as being T'Pau.
Remember, the events of the film do not alter those things that occurred before the incursion so T'Pau's Vulcan-centric existence would be likewise unaltered. She would be EXTREMELY unlikely to be offworld or hanging around the council chamber at that precise moment.
Spock was able to rescue the Vulcans we saw. Everyone else on the planet, Vulcan or otherwise, died. It is the Vulcan offworld diaspora that continues to exist. 10000.
No T'Pau. No T'Pring. No Stonn. Amok Time for all Vulcans is going to be a bitch.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
OTOH, Chekov is now (at least) four years older than he used to be, so you never know...
He was still around for the intervening twenty-five years...the finished film is very murky about what he was up to in that period, but there are lots of ways that his background could've been made clear to the Federation--especially since he didn't exactly keep it a secret and the Kelvin incident itself was significant enough to be studied in detail later.
I'm inclined to agree that someone like Tuvok is no longer born in this timeline--if for no other reason that it would be awfully convenient to say that billions of Vulcans died, but everyone still gets to keep their favourite Vulcan characters born past that point in time.
OTOH, Chekov is now (at least) four years older than he used to be, so you never know...
Or, you know, Nero mentioned that he was Romulan.
He was still around for the intervening twenty-five years...the finished film is very murky about what he was up to in that period, but there are lots of ways that his background could've been made clear to the Federation--especially since he didn't exactly keep it a secret and the Kelvin incident itself was significant enough to be studied in detail later.
Well...er, he seems to have an option to help him out there.
She may be "all of Vulcan in one package," and she turned down a high-profile position offered to her by the Federation, but how "Vulcan-centric" do we really know her to be, geographically? You make it sound like she was averse to even travelling offworld...
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
When have Movie studio executives ever been accused of being smart?
I hope Christopher et al are right and it is just worrying over nothing, but its still a possibility.
None of those examples are relevant. We arent talking about a movie based on an existing book, of course a Superhero film wouldnt lead to the cancellation of a comic series.
The situation here is closer to the DC reboots of their continuity, everything printed since (at least at first) was supposed to follow the new version of events. The new film is a reboot, regardless of spouting off alternate timeline excuses, is it inconcievable that they would want all tie-in fiction to follow their new cashcow?
And if its just a change in whose picture gets on the cover, then that still leads us back to the state the novels were in when TMP came out- Pajama party on the cover, original 5 year mission inside.
Like i said, i hope i'm wrong, i really do. I think what Pocket has done with the post Nemesis era stuff is mostly fantastic, and i have no desire to see it stopped or altered because J.J decided it would be a laugh to blow up Vulcan.
Yeah, because it would be a smart decision to kill a working line in favor of books on a movie that so far is nothing more than a one hit wonder and more or less directly insult your customers' intelligence by assuming they are to stupid to differentiate between two timelines.
When have Movie studio executives ever been accused of being smart?
I hope Christopher et al are right and it is just worrying over nothing, but its still a possibility.
Christopher said:
None of those examples are relevant. We arent talking about a movie based on an existing book, of course a Superhero film wouldnt lead to the cancellation of a comic series.
The situation here is closer to the DC reboots of their continuity, everything printed since (at least at first) was supposed to follow the new version of events. The new film is a reboot, regardless of spouting off alternate timeline excuses, is it inconcievable that they would want all tie-in fiction to follow their new cashcow?
And if its just a change in whose picture gets on the cover, then that still leads us back to the state the novels were in when TMP came out- Pajama party on the cover, original 5 year mission inside.
Like i said, i hope i'm wrong, i really do. I think what Pocket has done with the post Nemesis era stuff is mostly fantastic, and i have no desire to see it stopped or altered because J.J decided it would be a laugh to blow up Vulcan.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
No, it's not inconceivable, but there's absolutely no evidence for it, either.
We don't know that. The identities of the members of the Vulcan High Council -- which seems to have been a cultural entity rather than a governmental one -- other than Sarek went unestablished.
I don't really think that's a logical inference. T'Pau may have had strong opinions against allowing off-worlders to see Vulcan marriage ceremonies, but it doesn't follow that she therefore would have been unlikely to travel off-planet.
There is also absolutely no evidence of that. The Enterprise advised the Vulcan government to begin a planet-wide evacuation, and we have no idea if there were civilian ships in Vulcan orbit or not. Spock's line could be interpreted as meaning that only 10,000 people got into orbit before the planet was destroyed just as easily as it could be interpreted to mean that only the 10,000 Vulcans already off-planet survived. There's really not enough info to come to a firm conclusion.
No, it's not inconceivable, but there's absolutely no evidence for it, either.
We don't know that. The identities of the members of the Vulcan High Council -- which seems to have been a cultural entity rather than a governmental one -- other than Sarek went unestablished.
I don't really think that's a logical inference. T'Pau may have had strong opinions against allowing off-worlders to see Vulcan marriage ceremonies, but it doesn't follow that she therefore would have been unlikely to travel off-planet.
There is also absolutely no evidence of that. The Enterprise advised the Vulcan government to begin a planet-wide evacuation, and we have no idea if there were civilian ships in Vulcan orbit or not. Spock's line could be interpreted as meaning that only 10,000 people got into orbit before the planet was destroyed just as easily as it could be interpreted to mean that only the 10,000 Vulcans already off-planet survived. There's really not enough info to come to a firm conclusion.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
Paula Block, of CBS Consumer Products, is a "first fandom" ST fan and oversees all tie-in manuscripts. I can't imagine her not putting up a good argument to keep the old TOS line of novels and comics alive.
Oh, and with Spock seemingly bonded to Uhura, this timeline's Spock may have already rid himself of T'Pring.
Paula Block, of CBS Consumer Products, is a "first fandom" ST fan and oversees all tie-in manuscripts. I can't imagine her not putting up a good argument to keep the old TOS line of novels and comics alive.
Oh, and with Spock seemingly bonded to Uhura, this timeline's Spock may have already rid himself of T'Pring.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
If tptb want to use T'Pau they can easily say she was one of the elders rescued from Vulcan. It seems perfectly likely to me.
I agree it seems contrived if Tuvok is born, but he was born on a colony world, that should up the odds in his favor.
As for Saavik, a reveal that she was created as a Vulcan/Romulan hybrid before Vulcan's destruction by a Romulan scientist and was kept as an embryo in suspended animation/frozen or whatever for several years until they were ready for her for whatever reason would solve that problem, and we don't know anything about her parents so that's possible.
I doubt that these issues will ever get brought up, and that's ok. The original universe is still out there. Saavik is closer to the new movie's time period so she's the most likely of the other main Vulcans to be brought in. I could see Spock finding a bunch of Vulcan/Romulan hybrid kids, that would create some interesting problems for the endangered Vulcans to deal with.
I agree that Spock will have his pon farr sorted out most likely with less trouble than TOS.
If tptb want to use T'Pau they can easily say she was one of the elders rescued from Vulcan. It seems perfectly likely to me.
I agree it seems contrived if Tuvok is born, but he was born on a colony world, that should up the odds in his favor.
As for Saavik, a reveal that she was created as a Vulcan/Romulan hybrid before Vulcan's destruction by a Romulan scientist and was kept as an embryo in suspended animation/frozen or whatever for several years until they were ready for her for whatever reason would solve that problem, and we don't know anything about her parents so that's possible.
I doubt that these issues will ever get brought up, and that's ok. The original universe is still out there. Saavik is closer to the new movie's time period so she's the most likely of the other main Vulcans to be brought in. I could see Spock finding a bunch of Vulcan/Romulan hybrid kids, that would create some interesting problems for the endangered Vulcans to deal with.
I agree that Spock will have his pon farr sorted out most likely with less trouble than TOS.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
Exactly. The question isn't whether something is possible or conceivable, but whether it's probable enough to be worth worrying about. In this case, there is no reason to believe this scenario is even remotely probable.
Also, those people Spock rescued weren't the only survivors. Vulcan is an advanced civilization with its own starships. According to Spock's log entry, ten thousand Vulcans escaped the destruction of the planet. It's only logical to conclude that important Vulcans such as T'Pau would have been among the first to be evacuated. I see no reason to assume to T'Pau didn't survive.
After all, the people Spock rescued weren't the government, they were the Elders responsible for preserving Vulcan's cultural legacy. I'm sure the government leaders had their own evacuation protocols prepared and managed to get away.
I'd go farther: the former interpretation is the only one that makes sense. Vulcan is an advanced civilization that's been travelling in space for over 400 years at this point (not counting the pre-Reform era). No doubt there are millions of Vulcans living on colonies elsewhere in the 40 Eridani system and in other star systems. And surely they had countless ships of their own available for evacuation, both in orbit and on the ground.
Besides, at the end, Spock Prime talked about finding a new colony world for the surviving Vulcans. If only four or five people escaped Vulcan itself and the other 10,000 survivors already had homes elsewhere, why would there even need to be a new colony world established? Spock's line pretty much proves that the 10,000 are refugees from the planet Vulcan itself, people who were living on Vulcan and got away in the evacuation.
Exactly. The question isn't whether something is possible or conceivable, but whether it's probable enough to be worth worrying about. In this case, there is no reason to believe this scenario is even remotely probable.
Also, those people Spock rescued weren't the only survivors. Vulcan is an advanced civilization with its own starships. According to Spock's log entry, ten thousand Vulcans escaped the destruction of the planet. It's only logical to conclude that important Vulcans such as T'Pau would have been among the first to be evacuated. I see no reason to assume to T'Pau didn't survive.
After all, the people Spock rescued weren't the government, they were the Elders responsible for preserving Vulcan's cultural legacy. I'm sure the government leaders had their own evacuation protocols prepared and managed to get away.
I'd go farther: the former interpretation is the only one that makes sense. Vulcan is an advanced civilization that's been travelling in space for over 400 years at this point (not counting the pre-Reform era). No doubt there are millions of Vulcans living on colonies elsewhere in the 40 Eridani system and in other star systems. And surely they had countless ships of their own available for evacuation, both in orbit and on the ground.
Besides, at the end, Spock Prime talked about finding a new colony world for the surviving Vulcans. If only four or five people escaped Vulcan itself and the other 10,000 survivors already had homes elsewhere, why would there even need to be a new colony world established? Spock's line pretty much proves that the 10,000 are refugees from the planet Vulcan itself, people who were living on Vulcan and got away in the evacuation.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
Sure it does. Even if there are, say, six million Vulcans throughout the galaxy, you're talking about a 99.9% population drop. That's huge. If they're flung far throughout the galaxy in many different population centers, I don't think it's unreasonable to refer to the Vulcan species as being endangered.
ETA: Also, minor nitpick, but it was Spock 2.0 who referred to Vulcans as an endangered species, not Spock Prime.
Sure it does. Even if there are, say, six million Vulcans throughout the galaxy, you're talking about a 99.9% population drop. That's huge. If they're flung far throughout the galaxy in many different population centers, I don't think it's unreasonable to refer to the Vulcan species as being endangered.
ETA: Also, minor nitpick, but it was Spock 2.0 who referred to Vulcans as an endangered species, not Spock Prime.
Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler
We can know that by omission. When she appears in AMOK TIME, her big accomplishments are listed. If she was on the council Kirk or Bones would have said so. They listed her Dalai Lama qualities instead. It would be illogical for someone with that much cultural influence to be on the council anyway as her mere presence would be unduly influencing even among Vulcans. She would know that and so would they.
Sure, a writer could say she was on the council and that she was one of those rescued but not if they were truly being faithful to the canon.
I didn't see any. And, more to the point: they told them to evacuate the planet and then Spock realizes there's no time, hence his EXTREMELY emotional response. There were no ships blasting off in the distance from the surface and not one ship shown to be in orbit. It's just like those old G.I. Joe cartoons where they make a point of showing chutes opening when a plane is shot down.
If the film makers had wanted us to see other Vulcans escaping, they would have shown us that. They didn't. Spock and the councillors are the only survivors of Vulcan's destruction. Until further notice, of course.
The only ship we saw in the vicinity that was warp capable and knew a singularity was coming was Enterprise. Even if the (unseen) Vulcan ships had managed to get a few thousand people beamed up, they were certainly destroyed in the ensuing gravitational collapse.
10000
No. His words can't be interpretted that way. He said there were 10000 left. Total. An endangered species. Millions of Vulcans across the galaxy are not an endangered species. 10000 out of billions, the latter mostly destroyed with their homeworld, are. Spock would not make the error you are ascribing to him and there were two Spock's present. There's no wiggle room here.
10000
We can know that by omission. When she appears in AMOK TIME, her big accomplishments are listed. If she was on the council Kirk or Bones would have said so. They listed her Dalai Lama qualities instead. It would be illogical for someone with that much cultural influence to be on the council anyway as her mere presence would be unduly influencing even among Vulcans. She would know that and so would they.
Sure, a writer could say she was on the council and that she was one of those rescued but not if they were truly being faithful to the canon.
I didn't see any. And, more to the point: they told them to evacuate the planet and then Spock realizes there's no time, hence his EXTREMELY emotional response. There were no ships blasting off in the distance from the surface and not one ship shown to be in orbit. It's just like those old G.I. Joe cartoons where they make a point of showing chutes opening when a plane is shot down.
If the film makers had wanted us to see other Vulcans escaping, they would have shown us that. They didn't. Spock and the councillors are the only survivors of Vulcan's destruction. Until further notice, of course.
The only ship we saw in the vicinity that was warp capable and knew a singularity was coming was Enterprise. Even if the (unseen) Vulcan ships had managed to get a few thousand people beamed up, they were certainly destroyed in the ensuing gravitational collapse.
10000
No. His words can't be interpretted that way. He said there were 10000 left. Total. An endangered species. Millions of Vulcans across the galaxy are not an endangered species. 10000 out of billions, the latter mostly destroyed with their homeworld, are. Spock would not make the error you are ascribing to him and there were two Spock's present. There's no wiggle room here.
10000
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