10,000 Survivors? !

[cultcross]

This is one of my main criticisms of the film. The destruction of Vulcan is a major event in the trek universe, and the film didn't seem to treat it very well. I can understand the need of the writers and director to move things along, but with respect to the story telling, the destruction of Vulcan and the implications for the Vulcan people were very limited.

Did you miss the... second half of the movie? Kirk took command because of the ramifications of Vulcan's destruction. Spock advocated mass murder (albeit slightly jokingly) on the basis of it.

For example...from a dramatic stand point it would have made so much more sense to give the audiance some indication that the Vulcans were actually defending their planet. I know we see the Enterprise arrive and we what is left of the fleet that left Earth....but I certainly didn't get the impression Vulcan had any planetary defenses. It was just glossed over, left to the viewer's imagination.

The massive field of debris kind of helped my imagination. The implication is certainly that planets had defences - Nero tried to use Pike to get Earth's, so presumably he did something similar to get Vulcan's.

Also, it would have been nice, and I do think they tried to do this, to see a bit more of the aftermath. Perhaps more lines in the film about how the remaining Vulcans were dealing with the loss of their planet....I know the last couple of scenes attempted to do this.....but it wasn't enough for me.

You wanted the movie to stop while we go on a long ponderous voyage around the remaining Vulcans watching them be emotional? Good films don't rush off on a tangent like that. And Trek XI dealt with it be personifying it - ironically in a human woman. Spock and Sarek's loss (the only Vulcans we really know in the film) is personified in her and their reactions to losing her.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

^^^ I agree with you.

I would like to see the ramifications for the Vulcan peoples. But no, not in the movie. It would completely destroy the pace. But Pocket Books willing, I'd definitely read a few books about his...

 

[USS Triumphant]

Well that'd be ironic really, as Romulus will still suffer the supernova in the 24th century, so the poor Vulcans will have to go through all this again if they reunify.

I like to presume that Spock Prime would speak up and say, "Look, um, guys? Yeah, there's something you really should know, mmmkay?...." before that would happen.

Perhaps more lines in the film about how the remaining Vulcans were dealing with the loss of their planet....

Oh - they ARE PISSED!



(Can't you just imagine a few years down the road, and the scariest thing you can run across - the thing that makes Klingons cower and go home - is rogue Vulcan ships? They don't reunify with Romulus. They conquer it. )

 

[Samurai8472]

New Vulcan is in the works though as seen at the end when the Spocks were talking

I think as time passes the destruction of Vulcan will fade a little bit in Vulcan's minds. Sort of like how 9/11 has.

By time we get to Old Spock's time, Vulcan 2.0 will become the norm among Vulcan's.

Perhaps the next movie will focus on the relocation of survivors. Spock will struggle to keep loyalties to Starfleet and his friends while maintaining his heritage.

 

[Plecostomus]

The next movie: Either some kind of time-warp reset or someone invents Project Genesis and it gets stolen by someone hell bent on attacking the Romulans with it maybe both.

 

[Myasishchev]

Out of curiosity, in the novel-verse dealing with the 24th century, is Romulus gone, or does Countdown take place in its own mini-continuity?

I mean, I thought they screwed the Romulans with Nemesis and the civil war...

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Yes, I agree. It was. And it gives me hope for Trek.

It is the death of deus ex machina.

God bless you, J.J., you cute little midget.

 

[erebus]

Don't Vulcans have some telepathic connection where they can sense when other Vulcans die? In the Immunity Syndrome, Spock literally has a nasty reaction to only 300 Vulcans dying, yet he and every Vulcan keeps a straight face when SIX BILLION die?!

Thats an intersting point. But didn't Spock prime 'see' Vulcan 'in his sky' being destroyed (which might have been a kind of allegory of the connectivity you mention since he was light years away at the time so he can't have seen it in his sky literally).

And if Nero was aware of the Vulcan connectivity, it would naturally follow towards the plan of reckoning that he finally came up with rather than something like just killing him. And Nero would be more sure that the plan would definently make Spock feel the loss of family that he himself was feeling.

 

[seekertwo]

The next movie: Either some kind of time-warp reset or someone invents Project Genesis and it gets stolen by someone hell bent on attacking the Romulans with it maybe both.

Interesting.....The Vulcan Remnant creates the Genesis Device to reconstruct/Vulcan-form a new planet...it gets stolen by rogue Vulcans to attack the Romulans....add James T Kirk and the gang...and you have a heck of a sequel....

...I just hope the next one has more Klingons and a few Augments..

 

[spoonunseptium]

Yes, I agree. It was. And it gives me hope for Trek.

It is the death of deus ex machina.

God bless you, J.J., you cute little midget.

This makes me feel way better about the whole idea.

I didn't know what to think about the destruction of Vulcan, even though I kind of liked it (for this reason, though I couldn't pinpoint it).



My only question: Isn't there an episode in which Spock's father and mother come for a visit? That's the only confusing part.



no matter what, it was an AWESOME movie!!

also, Chris Pine.

 

[superstring01]

I'm dredging up this thread.

I saw the movie a second time and it may be a plot hole, or not, but Sylar-Spock clearly says (to paraphrase as closely as possible), "By my estimates, less than 10,000 survived the destruction of Vulcan."

Vulcan clearly has colony worlds, inhabitants on other planets, a sizeable staff in the Sol system. The USA has nearly THREE TIMES that number employed in our embassies, consulates and various advisories around the world. I have to belive he's speaking about the survivors of Vulcan only.

This doesn't detract away from his "endangered sepcies" comment. Even if there are--say--20 million left, that's still a comparably small number in a HUGE galaxy full of perils.

~String

 

[Brent]

Vulcan is gone, people need to get over this. NO reset this time, finally.

But not really, since it exists in another reality

 

[superstring01]

Vulcan is gone, people need to get over this. NO reset this time, finally.

But not really, since it exists in another reality

Who's whining about it? I thought it was a brilliant move. It took balls to do it and Abrams should be applauded (something I said earlier). Hell, I would have been okay with the destruction of Earth, if it was played right. I love risky moves. It's how good drama is made. The destruction of Vulcan is one of the saving and amazing plot devices that was well employed in this movie.

~String

 

[Broccoli]

Out of curiosity, in the novel-verse dealing with the 24th century, is Romulus gone, or does Countdown take place in its own mini-continuity?

I mean, I thought they screwed the Romulans with Nemesis and the civil war...

The novels haven't gotten that far down the Trek time line when the movie claimed Romulas went bye-bye.

 

[Greg Cox]

[



My only question: Isn't there an episode in which Spock's father and mother come for a visit? That's the only confusing part.

"Journey to Babel." Which is clearly not going to happen in this new timeline.

Or at least happen differently . . . . .

 

[superstring01]

"Journey to Babel." Which is clearly not going to happen in this new timeline.

Or at least happen differently . . . . .

Indeed. The original timeline is GONE the way of the dodo.

~String

 

[USS Triumphant]

The novels haven't gotten that far down the Trek time line when the movie claimed Romulas went bye-bye.

Star Trek Online takes place (willn't have been place taken*) then. But "The Path to 2409" (the little mini-series of chronology entries that they're doing leading up to the game) hasn't gotten to that point yet.

*Extra points if you recognise this reference.

 

[Squiggy]

"Journey to Babel." Which is clearly not going to happen in this new timeline.

Or at least happen differently . . . . .

Indeed. The original timeline is GONE the way of the dodo.

~String

In this timeline..."sometimes bad shit happens".

 

[nx1701g]

We know, specifically of two specific Vulcan colonial worlds (P'Jem [the monestary world, which is bound to have at least a few thousand by the time of Kirk] and another world mentioned in Enterprise. And I refuse to believe that there aren't Vulcans living on a number of other worlds. Bet on a few million.

P'Jem was destroyed by the Andorians after the events of "The Andorian Incident".

 

[superstring01]

We know, specifically of two specific Vulcan colonial worlds (P'Jem [the monestary world, which is bound to have at least a few thousand by the time of Kirk] and another world mentioned in Enterprise. And I refuse to believe that there aren't Vulcans living on a number of other worlds. Bet on a few million.

P'Jem was destroyed by the Andorians after the events of "The Andorian Incident".

But they didn't "take" the world. IT still belong to Vulcan.

But you're right.

My point still stands, though. Vulcans are smart and would be aware of stellar catastrophies and would have seeded a few colonies on other planets.

~String