The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[Eddie Roth]

Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

Whats with all these posts that start out "I'm no canon nazi, but..." then go on to post a wall of text that makes it seem very much like they are?

ETA:

But the storyline contradicts so much previously established canon that for any real Trekkie it is only watchable a few times.

You know what? If I never hear the word "canon" again, I'll die a happy man. In fact, if it shows up in one more post, I swear I'll put my fist through something.

Reading that exact post you quote, I was thinking the exact same thing, Gep. Thank you for saying it. I wonder if all these people would rather have another ho-hum film like the previous few that sticks to established continuity instead of taking a great, entertaining one that starts things fresh. It almost seems that way. And if that's so, we have the ultimate proof that a certain group of fans can just never be pleased and should therefore be ignored.

 

[Dar70]

Should have put the voters name in the poll. That way we can see how many people voted poor, that said they werent going to see the movie.

 

[cbspock]

I went to a 7pm showing last night on Long Island, and the theatre was atleast half empty. They had also scheduled a 7:30, 8pm, 10pm, and midnight showing. I know I wouldn't have known about the earlier release unless I was reading the web. I wonder how the midnight showings went?


-Chris

 

[Australis]

After reading every single bloody post in this thread (and refraining from commenting on the naysayers and their picky, picky ways), a thought:

From reading the comments, and points raised, as someone else said waaaayyy upthread, which I echoed, the film may have been better at150-160 minutes instead of 122. Would have allowed it to be slowed down a smidgin, and more backstory (Nero, Spock, a few others) to get it to hang together better, imo.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[SalvorHardin]

After readinhg every single bloody post in this thread (and refraining from commenting on the naysayers and their picky, picky ways), a thought:

As someone else said waaaayyy upthread, which I echoed, the film may have been better at150-160 minutes instead of 122. Would have allowed it to be slowed down a smidgin, and more backstory (Nero, Spock, a few others) to get it to hang together better, imo.

Any thoughts on that?

Yes. To quote my review

I really think the movie would have greatly improved if it was at least 30 minutes longer. If the Spock Prime/Kirk mind melding scene had been cut and some of the plot of Countdown had been incorporated into the movie, along with a few scenes from Nero's Rura Penthe imprisonment.
That would have also improved Nero's presence in the movie. Right now he has too few scenes and even though Bana does a good job he is not allowed to reach or even surpass Khan levels.
Now I know this is not really a movie about the villain, that he is more of a device for our characters to meet, grow and come together but still...It could have been handled better.

 

[Destructor]

Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Your decision to go to work tomorrow or not could effect your entire future. It's not hard to imagine that 800+ lives being altered wouldn't have an enormous impact on the universe.

That depends on whether you believe in the 'butterfly' theory (that small changes can lead to large changes) or the 'great man' theory (that small changes will be outpaced and eventually inconsequential in the grand scheme of things). This second theory was essentially validated in the DS9 episode where the geniuses predicted the future with greater accuracy the further their predictions went into the future.

So... me going to work tomorrow might actually mean fuck all. I certainly think so.

 

[cbspock]

Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

Whats with all these posts that start out "I'm no canon nazi, but..." then go on to post a wall of text that makes it seem very much like they are?

ETA:

But the storyline contradicts so much previously established canon that for any real Trekkie it is only watchable a few times.

You know what? If I never hear the word "canon" again, I'll die a happy man. In fact, if it shows up in one more post, I swear I'll put my fist through something.

Reading that exact post you quote, I was thinking the exact same thing, Gep. Thank you for saying it. I wonder if all these people would rather have another ho-hum film like the previous few that sticks to established continuity instead of taking a great, entertaining one that starts things fresh. It almost seems that way. And if that's so, we have the ultimate proof that a certain group of fans can just never be pleased and should therefore be ignored.

I have to agree. The film has made Star Trek fun again. If they can't see that, well their loss. There were moments in the film it felt so true to the heart of the original series, and the characters, and then certain events took place, and I was like wow, the gloves are off, anything can happen.



-Chris

 

[Australis]

Salvor Hardin: Ah, it may very well have been yours I saw.

 

[cbspock]

After reading every single bloody post in this thread (and refraining from commenting on the naysayers and their picky, picky ways), a thought:

From reading the comments, and points raised, as someone else said waaaayyy upthread, which I echoed, the film may have been better at150-160 minutes instead of 122. Would have allowed it to be slowed down a smidgin, and more backstory (Nero, Spock, a few others) to get it to hang together better, imo.

Any thoughts on that?

I was amazed at the blazing speed of the movie. It never let up. It would have been interesting to see the Klingon attack, or even some more context around Spock and Nero.


-Chris

 

[saddestmoon]

This movie was awesome!

Welcome back Star Trek!

 

[cbspock]

I really loved the scene between Kirk and McCoy on the shuttle, and we finally find out why McCoy goes by the nickname "Bones".


-Chris

 

[RAMA]

Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

Interesting. At a ST forum the percentage of top rating is just under 70% but on Box Office Mojo, a general site, its almost 85%!

 

[cbspock]

Re: Disappointed (Spoilers)

Interesting. At a ST forum the percentage of top rating is just under 70% but on Box Office Mojo, a general site, its almost 85%!

I think that is reasonable, Trek fans are by their nature going to be harder on the film then the general audience.


Oh, and Kirk still doesn't know how to drive a car..lol

-Chris

 

[Australis]

As i said in the Latin phrase thread (wherever it was), about canonistas, and applying to to Trek fans, queritor ergo sum

 

[Rebel69]

I'm truly truly shocked and appauled by what I've read here today. You people call yourselves Star Trek fans? Absurd, ridiculous.

I thought the movie was fantastic, if you're not a Star Trek fan and don't care about the events of TOS, TNG, DS9, VGR or the movies, but I for one DO care about those events, which may now never take place!

The destruction of the USS Kelvin and the destruction of Vulcan would have serious repercussions on future events, so the future of the Star Trek universe which we are intimitely familiar with is now gone. It's impossible to tell exactly how these events will affect the Star Trek timeline, but one example is as follows:

Vulcan is destroyed so there's a strong possibility that Tuvok will never be born,
if Tuvok is never born, he will not be undercover on Chakotays Maquis ship when it becomes stranded in the Delta quadrant,
and if that's the case,
then Voyager won't be sent to look for him so Voyager won't be stranded in the Delta quadrant as well,
so everything we've seen and loved about Voyager has been erased from history, it never happened, and yet, the majority of people in here seem happy enough to accept this because the movie was visually stunning with emotional sequences.

I don't get it, I enjoyed the movie, it had humour, action, emotion and it WAS enjoyable to watch, but at the same time, they've completely erased Star Trek history as we know it. For all we know, Picard will never be born as a result of some knock on effect, or Rikers mother won't die and he'll never enter Starfleet, it's impossible to tell just how bad it is. I can understand how people would think that this creates excitment, after all, a blank future could be painted in any way at all, and before anyone tells me I'm small minded and I want predictable films which I already know the conclusions of, you're wrong, I want to be surprised, I want to be shocked, but I don't want to see the last 40 years wiped away just so J.J Abrams can sell movie tickets. Gene Roddenberry would NOT be happy about this, it destroys almost everything he created. This was not a Star Trek movie, it was a movie with character names from Star Trek, nothing more.
For starters, Spock sarcastically telling the Vulcan council members to 'Live Long & Prosper' was completely out of character. When have we ever seen Spock behave like that? Uhura is a cheeky bitch, she was always so respectful and slightly timid at times, this new Uhura bore no similarity to the original character. The only character in this movie who was anything like the opriginal character was Dr McCoy, in his manner, his speech and his actions. And what was with the relationship between Spock & Sarek??? Sarek was very understanding to Spock, they seemed fairly close to eachother, and to top it off, Sarek (who looked really old compared to his character in the 70's) admitted to having an emotional attachment to Amanda (who by the way looked far too young to have an adult son). What was that all about? Sarek and Spock had a turbulent relationship which didn't really improve much until after the events of the Voyage Home. You can't say that the destruction of the Kelvin in some way affected Spock & Sareks relationship, the chances of that are HIGHLY unlikely, so why is their relationship different in this movie?

I hate doing this, I care so much about Star Trek and what it represents, but it seems that people have forgotten all about that now, it's all about money now, thats as evident as Spocks lobes, I mean Star Trek history indicates that there was a 3rd world war in the mid 21st century, 600 million dead, very few governments left, and then after first contact with the Vulcans everything changes, technology improves, we begin exploring space etc etc, but somehow, through the war and all the rest of it, Nokia seems to survive, and are still using that ridiculous ringtone, can anyone explain that? Paramount probably can, with dollar signs.

I feel like screaming, I have no-one else to talk to about this except in online forums, I hope there are at least a few people out there who agree with me, but I feel sorry for those who don't, I can't understand why you're happy to see the Star Trek universe scrapped and replaced.

 

[Jessop]

Rebel, you seem to have totally missed the whole scene on the bridge where the characters practically break the fourth wall and shove the fact that this is an alternate universe down your throat. This change in the timeline isn't overwriting what came before it, it's a seperate and distinct universe now, like the Mirror Universe exists along side the 'prime universe'.

 

[Rebel69]

Rebel, you seem to have totally missed the whole scene on the bridge where the characters practically break the fourth wall and shove the fact that this is an alternate universe down your throat. This change in the timeline isn't overwriting what came before it, it's a seperate and distinct universe now, like the Mirror Universe exists along side the 'prime universe'.

I didn't miss anything, Spock postulated that the alternate universe concept was a possibility, of course we've seen in Star Trek, postulated by Data, that an old theory stated that everything that can happen, does happen, in alternate quantum universes, so every single action and event in Star Trek can exist differently in alternate realities. It doesn't change anything, Nero travelled into the past, he didn't cross over into an alternate reality, his actions changed an already existing timeline, and in alternate universes maybe he didnt come back in time, maybe he never existed, there are unending possibilities, but the fact remains, they've taken our Star Trek and turned it off in a direction which destroys what we know is coming and that saddens me. We've been watching events in the Star Trek universe for 40 years now and they've been part of one universe which has now been changed, as I've explained.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Well, I saw the movie last night, in an almost full theatre. The crowd was a great mix, all ages and races, some were probably fans and others looked to be there to see what they've seen ads for.

I can't right now put fully into words completely how I thought of the movie, but all I can say is: WOW. It was truly an amazing movie, hitting the hallmarks of what I loved about Star Trek in the first place: that it's fun. Fun to visit old friends and go on a great adventure with them. I felt like I was back at 7 or 8 years old, discovering the original series for the first time (anyone remember the 5 volume set that Paramount Home Video released, which had 2 episodes per tape? We had those).

All I will say directly about the movie is that I was almost in tears when the very beginning part was coming to its conclusion. What a way to grab you and hold you for what's to come.

Simply an amazing movie. I loved it, and it IS Star Trek. It's back, and it made it's presence felt very well.

 

[Jessop]

Rebel, you seem to have totally missed the whole scene on the bridge where the characters practically break the fourth wall and shove the fact that this is an alternate universe down your throat. This change in the timeline isn't overwriting what came before it, it's a seperate and distinct universe now, like the Mirror Universe exists along side the 'prime universe'.

I didn't miss anything, Spock postulated that the alternate universe concept was a possibility, of course we've seen in Star Trek, postulated by Data, that an old theory stated that everything that can happen, does happen, in alternate quantum universes, so every single action and event in Star Trek can exist differently in alternate realities. It doesn't change anything, Nero travelled into the past, he didn't cross over into an alternate reality, his actions changed an already existing timeline, and in alternate universes maybe he didnt come back in time, maybe he never existed, there are unending possibilities, but the fact remains, they've taken our Star Trek and turned it off in a direction which destroys what we know is coming and that saddens me. We've been watching events in the Star Trek universe for 40 years now and they've been part of one universe which has now been changed, as I've explained.

Sorry but you are wrong, go read an interview with the writers, since they've reiterated in practically every single one of them that this IS an alternate universe, which diverged from the prime timeline at the point Nero initially emerged.

 

[cbspock]

Well, I saw the movie last night, in an almost full theatre. The crowd was a great mix, all ages and races, some were probably fans and others looked to be there to see what they've seen ads for.

I can't right now put fully into words completely how I thought of the movie, but all I can say is: WOW. It was truly an amazing movie, hitting the hallmarks of what I loved about Star Trek in the first place: that it's fun. Fun to visit old friends and go on a great adventure with them. I felt like I was back at 7 or 8 years old, discovering the original series for the first time (anyone remember the 5 volume set that Paramount Home Video released, which had 2 episodes per tape? We had those).

All I will say directly about the movie is that I was almost in tears when the very beginning part was coming to its conclusion. What a way to grab you and hold you for what's to come.

Simply an amazing movie. I loved it, and it IS Star Trek. It's back, and it made it's presence felt very well.

That is the way I felt as well. It was like discovering the original series for the first time again. The scene between old Spock and Kirk was very touching.."I have been and always shall be your friend", "But you hate me" .lol

The way I felt after seeing this Trek was the way I wanted to feel after Star Wars 1,2,3..which I didn't. Those 3 films fell flat, and missed all the marks that made 4,5,6 great.

JJ nailed all the little beats that made the original tv/movie series what it was, and flushed everything that made modern trek (TNG, VOY, ENT) bad old and tired.

-Chris