NCC-1701 vs Superman
- Thread starter TheMasterOfOrion
- Start date
It's been shown that people have movement and consciousness inside the transporter.
Is it possible that maybe Superman could "break out of it."
Is it possible that maybe Superman could "break out of it."
Wouldn't Scotty have gone totally insane being locked in a transporter beam for 80 years then?
That's why he asked Riker & Geordi if James Kirk took the 1701-A and tried to look for him, he was so bat-crap crazy he forgot moments of his own life!
Near as we're shown Scotty was completely unaware of the passage of time inside the transporter. Perhaps something to with the method he used -locking the transporter buffer in a diagnostic cycle- prevented him from forming memories/being aware. It could also be that while one is "aware" while in the buffer they've no concept of the passage of time and for Scotty that 80 years felt like the few seconds a transport takes.
Checkmate
Commodore
No, it's been shown that they experience the dematerializing and rematerializing. Not the actual transfer. The damn thing kills you, which you witness up until the very last moment, and then builds a brand new you on the other side, which you witness just after it begins.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
No, while in the pattern buffer, the dematerialized state, Barclay - and the rest - could consciously see and grab a hold of other in-limbo transporter patterns and pull them along as they were rematerialized. So indeed, they are fully away the whole time.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Barclay was aware of things when he was A) De-materializing and B) Re-materializing. At no point is Barclay aware of anything when his pattern is in the pattern buffer or when his atoms are being pulled through subspace.
Superman would be sucked into the transporter buffer and either kept there or ripped apart and sprinkled through space.
There's no way for anyone even Superman to "break free" of a transporter beam. Having consciousness during the De-materializing & Re-materializing part of a transport does not mean the person has the means with which to break free from the beam because their atoms and molecules are still being either ripped apart or put back together, so regardless of how "strong" someone is means jack squat when your body is missing about 50% or more of it's atomic makeup.
Also the transporter works too fast for anything like that, Barclay was purposely kept inside the transporter in the de/re materializing stages for longer than he is supposed to be, this was in order for him to "grab" the others in the beam.
Actually it doesn't "kill" you. It doesn't make the full transfer from matter-to-energy, it turns you into a matter-energy "slush" (it mostly likely doesn't completely dematerialize the brain matter to prevent any complications with "is the person on the other end "really you.") and transmits that to the destination.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Even just turning the brain to slush would stop the brain from functioning so technically you do die but on re-materialization you're back alive again.
What some people get confused about is that they believe the person on the other end is just a copy, technically in the Star Trek universe it's not a copy at all because it's the exact same atoms and molecules of the original person which get's sent through subspace so realistically we can say the person in location A is the exact same person in location B.
The whole "you die" thing really stems from the whole "do we have a soul" rubbish and how does that soul get transported.
So if we do have souls the person on the other end of the transporter beam is now just a soulless shell.
If we don't have a soul then the person on the other end of the transporter beam is the exact same person that left the transporter pad because it's the exact same atoms and molecules of the original.
Checkmate
Commodore
I guess that's why you're able to make two completely functional and identical copies of people with a transporter (ala Riker and, to a lesser extent, Kirk). I had no idea you only needed 50% of your original atons and molecules. Go figure. Course, that also ignores all the other myriad examples of where that's not the case. Such as being turned into children or having "backup" bodies produced, just to name two more off the top of my head.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Thomas Riker was a copy caused by some freak occurrence but William Riker who got beamed up was still the original. The copy was probably created from some kind of molecular or sub atomic mitosis.
Putting the person back together correctly still relies on computers and technology, if there's an error then the person will be put back together wrong but since it's still the original matter and molecules it's still the same person. Even though they were kids they still retained their memory's so their brains were put back together correctly and therefore their brains were not missing any of the original matter.
During transport they obviously die the minute their atoms are ripped apart but since the matter on the other end is exactly the same you are brought back to life.
The only argument against this is whether or not you have a soul.
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
If that were true, he would not be able to see any transporter-buffer-patterns, let alone grab a hold of them and rematerialize the patterns into people.
Nope. They didn't even know the patterns were there. They put him in the beam to see if there were problems with his materialized state and to correct them. And he grabbed a transporter pattern. He would not be able to grab a transporter pattern, unless he was conscious in the buffer. It's the only place where the transporter patterns could have been.
In real-life science terms called a "quantum-foam". Energy and matter existing at the same time in the same place.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
^ he wasn't in the pattern buffer, he was stuck between re/de materializing which means he was constantly in and out of the pattern buffer within milliseconds at a time. If he was in the pattern buffer he wouldn't have been on the transporter pad. When the transporter was active anything could have occurred to those other patterns, they could have leaked in and out of the buffer due to the re-de materializing process of Barclay allowing them to be caught by Barclay.
There's no way he could have caught them inside the buffer, he had to be on the pad being re-materialized to do it. If he was wholly in the buffer he wouldn't have been conscious of anything.
He may feel that he's conscious the whole time but that's not the case, when he's unconscious he doesn't know about it because he's unconscious, so from his perspective he's conscious the whole time.
Anyway, at the end of the day a lot of episodes are best forgotten. It's episodes like this Barclay one that spits in the face of canon and how the technology actually works.
There's no way he could have caught them inside the buffer, he had to be on the pad being re-materialized to do it. If he was wholly in the buffer he wouldn't have been conscious of anything.
He may feel that he's conscious the whole time but that's not the case, when he's unconscious he doesn't know about it because he's unconscious, so from his perspective he's conscious the whole time.
Anyway, at the end of the day a lot of episodes are best forgotten. It's episodes like this Barclay one that spits in the face of canon and how the technology actually works.
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
No, it doesn't spit in the face of canon. You're just WRONG about how it works.
You ARE conscious of things, CONSTANTLY. Those transporter patterns, cannot exist outside the transporter buffer. If they'd get outside of them, they'd simply scatter and disappear - "scattering your molecules across the universe" as Bones is always afraid of. So the only way to see them and grab them, and for them to touch Barclay, is to see them inside the buffer and nowhere else.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
How can you be conscious inside the buffer when your brain is in a quadrillion tiny pieces?
The pattern can exist outside the buffer, if it couldn't then the transporter wouldn't work, they'd scatter everywhere the minute you tried to re-materialize someone. When the beam is activated the object being transported in encapsulated in a field, we know that because we've seen episodes where someone fired a phaser at a transporter beam and it's bounced off and the guy being de-materialized was unhurt and uneffected.
Barclay is outside the buffer because the buffer is beneath the transporter and we clearly see that Barclay is on the pad and we can faintly see the transporter room, we also see it all from the transporter room perspective which shows he's continually on the pad.
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
How can you be conscious inside the buffer when your brain is in a quadrillion tiny pieces?
It is NOT in a quadrillion tiny pieces; that's the point of the quantum foam state. You're brain is both fully intact and reduced to energy at the same time.
A pattern can only exist intact outside of the buffer, if it exists inside the buffer at the same time. The moment it is not in the buffer; it falls apart. That's the essence of quantum mechanics and quantum entanglements and the transporter.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
It is in a quadrillion pieces, the buffer just stores all the matter before sending it on it's way through subspace.
How can it be in two places at once. The pattern must leave the buffer and then it's put back together outside the buffer on the transporter pad using whatever technology is required to do it. The transporter pad is the device which breaks matter up and puts it back together, the buffer is nothing more than a place to store the matter before it get's sent where it needs sending.
Matter can exist outside the buffer, it exists within the confinement beam on the transporter pad. The transporter pad and the technology it's made of is what does all the work, the buffer is nothing more than a container/storage device.
As each atom and molecule is broken apart it's stored in the buffer until the object/person has been fully de-materialized and then it's sent on it's way.