Courtney Love does the math

[wamdue]

but how much music would actually be made, if they did it for almost no money.

meanwhile there is an entire industry created to sell music, be it iTunes or even radio, and they are all very cosy with the record company's, I do wonder how those would work if people didnt have record contracts and had to approach radio stations and iTunes themselves.

Records companys do have a place in the system, that place just needs to change.

also if people are working when do they have time to tour? so there fan base can see them live.

 

[Praetor]

Thought for today: why can't there be a record company that makes a modest profit? Granted, one of the requirements would be that their acts at least do reasonable business, or doesn't tank. That's the thing - they takes risks with acts that break up or produce crap, and that's where the profits go. But from those acts spring others, new bands or solo artists, that do turn a dollar, and are therefore an investment. So they have to have money to invest. I dunno, it's a two edged sword - no new bands without big profits from establishing/estblished bands. And it would be a little hypocritical of those acts that are turning a doillar not allowing new acts to get the break they had.

--Australis, downer specialist.

That's almost exactly my thinking. Court makes some good points. It seems oh-so-unfair to expect these bands to recoup these promotional costs when it ends up making the labels a gigantic profit. Sure, they should love what they're doing, but when it's what they're doing that's making assloads of money, they deserve a bigger slice of the pie.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Yes, they should be doing it for the love of music, but if a band makes it big, don't they deserve to profit from it instead of the pencil-pushers from the recording industry?

Fair enough. But the endless bitching about the record companies taking all the profits is getting kind of old. This really isn't a new thing. The article quoted in the OP is 9 years old. If you think bands getting screwed out of their money is a recent development, then the members of TLC would like to have a word with you.

If conditions have made it impossible to make a living in the music business, then people should get out of the music business. There are plenty of industries where the profits have all dried up. I mean, nobody in their right mind would get into the business of selling CDs in a brick and mortar store anymore. Businesses/occupations that were once lucrative may not be lucrative anymore. That's life.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

also if people are working when do they have time to tour? so there fan base can see them live.

I'm a fan of a few bands whose members were never successful enough to quit their day jobs. They don't tour and no one gets to see them play live. It kinda sucks, but life goes on.

 

[wamdue]

also if people are working when do they have time to tour? so there fan base can see them live.

I'm a fan of a few bands whose members were never successful enough to quit their day jobs. They don't tour and no one gets to see them play live. It kinda sucks, but life goes on.

I dont know what you have against artists, but there are advantages to there being a music industry, I think tours are one of the few things, that fans, the band & the record company are all keen on happening, and one of the few things you cant put online to be stolen.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

I dont know what you have against artists

Huh? Didn't I just say I was a fan of a few bands?

Regardless, if you're one of the chosen few people on this planet who can make a living creating art, you should count your lucky stars each and every day, and not constantly bitch and moan about how you're getting scewed over. Especially someone like Courtney Love, who's only famous because of who she slept with--it's clear she has no songwriting talent when Kurt Cobain and Billy Corgan aren't around.

 

[Marc]

I dont know what you have against artists

Huh? Didn't I just say I was a fan of a few bands?

Regardless, if you're one of the chosen few people on this planet who can make a living creating art, you should count your lucky stars each and every day, and not constantly bitch and moan about how you're getting scewed over. Especially someone like Courtney Love, who's only famous because of who she slept with--it's clear she has no songwriting talent when Kurt Cobain and Billy Corgan aren't around.

Have to you looked at her career? Maybe she's not a good songwriter (and lets face it with all the big names who get their songs written for them by other people maybe it's not such a bad thing) but she's had her own band which has performed and sold albums.

she's also not the only performer to get fed up with being shafted by the record labels - as pointed out Paul McCartney left EMI after 40 years because he was getting shafted by him. You'll also find thare are many performers out there who either self release or they go with independant labels becasue they are sick of being screwed over by the big labels.

 

[Sephiroth]

Look at the Red Elvises, they have turned down every record label, they tour like 3/4ths of the year and produce thier own CD's & merchandise, no, they don't get heard on the radio much, but they make good money

 

[Star Wolf]

but how much music would actually be made, if they did it for almost no money.

meanwhile there is an entire industry created to sell music, be it iTunes or even radio, and they are all very cosy with the record company's, I do wonder how those would work if people didnt have record contracts and had to approach radio stations and iTunes themselves.

Records companys do have a place in the system, that place just needs to change.

also if people are working when do they have time to tour? so there fan base can see them live.

Plenty of music will be made. It is a fun act just as many play sports without compensation. The question is how would you find out about the good, to your own ears, music. Will you drive to the next town to hear the band which prefers to play there instead of your town?

 

[Ryan]

This piece is almost nine years old already. It's always just been an excuse for downloaders to deflect guilt based on a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with their actions.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Have to you looked at her career? Maybe she's not a good songwriter (and lets face it with all the big names who get their songs written for them by other people maybe it's not such a bad thing) but she's had her own band which has performed and sold albums.

Yes, and Bruce Willis had a band that performed live and sold albums too. Am I really supposed to feel sorry for people with no talent who aren't able to get fithy stinking rich off their music?

she's also not the only performer to get fed up with being shafted by the record labels - as pointed out Paul McCartney left EMI after 40 years because he was getting shafted by him.

Which is sorta my point... the Beatles got screwed out of their money, too, and that was over 40 years ago. So anyone in this day and age who thinks they can sign a record contract and become an instant millionaire is an idiot. I mean, didn't anybody watch Behind the Music? It's entirely possible to sell millions of albums and still be broke.

Also, as far as I know, Paul McCartney never penned any scathing articles claiming he was being screwed over by the record industry. He just changed labels and that was that.

If McCartney is rich today, it's because of the Beatles' songwriting catalog. McCartney got rich from actually writing music that people wanted to use in movies and TV shows and commercials, not from playing bass guitar in a rock band. If Courtney Love can't write songs that are worth something independent of the actual recordings she made, then tough luck.

 

[wamdue]

but how much music would actually be made, if they did it for almost no money.

meanwhile there is an entire industry created to sell music, be it iTunes or even radio, and they are all very cosy with the record company's, I do wonder how those would work if people didnt have record contracts and had to approach radio stations and iTunes themselves.

Records companys do have a place in the system, that place just needs to change.

also if people are working when do they have time to tour? so there fan base can see them live.

Plenty of music will be made. It is a fun act just as many play sports without compensation. The question is how would you find out about the good, to your own ears, music. Will you drive to the next town to hear the band which prefers to play there instead of your town?

and we all have time to go hunting for music like that do we? more to the point would anyone want to? we are all used to have music pretty much on demand, if we had to go hunt for it, then people would loose interest.

playing sports, its not the same thing, any number of people can play a sport they just need to find a team, or even make a team, music is not like that.

I could go find myself a football team if I wanted, but I couldnt perform at a pub.

 

[Star Wolf]

but how much music would actually be made, if they did it for almost no money.

meanwhile there is an entire industry created to sell music, be it iTunes or even radio, and they are all very cosy with the record company's, I do wonder how those would work if people didnt have record contracts and had to approach radio stations and iTunes themselves.

Records companys do have a place in the system, that place just needs to change.

also if people are working when do they have time to tour? so there fan base can see them live.

Plenty of music will be made. It is a fun act just as many play sports without compensation. The question is how would you find out about the good, to your own ears, music. Will you drive to the next town to hear the band which prefers to play there instead of your town?

and we all have time to go hunting for music like that do we? more to the point would anyone want to? we are all used to have music pretty much on demand, if we had to go hunt for it, then people would loose interest.

playing sports, its not the same thing, any number of people can play a sport they just need to find a team, or even make a team, music is not like that.

I could go find myself a football team if I wanted, but I couldnt perform at a pub.

I guess it is a matter of the level of performance and the pay issue also arises. I say its just as easy for one or two people to pick up an instrument and sing outside the line at the local resturaunt and movie theater promanade as it is to find a partner to hold half court and play two on two basketball. Infact choose the right instrument and there are churches bidding for your exclusive Saturday and Sunday performance rights

 

[wamdue]

sport is easier to pick up than a musical instrument

 

[Star Wolf]

sport is easier to pick up than a musical instrument

Sometimes, the voice is a musical instrument. I say its easier for someone to get up and sing and even play a Johnny Cash level guitar to accompany theirself then it is to find a partner to hold a urban half court for more then a few minutes. By then the local hotshots who did not have the grades to advance to college level ball have kicked you off the court. Yet people play and sing for the joy of it. If Barry Gordy or a NBA owner makes the true lions share of the money makes no difference. It takes none of the joy out of the game or the making of music.

 

[SlyCardie]

Oh wow, I thought that this thread was titled "Courtney Lover does the meth" which wouldn't have surprised me at all, but I'm glad I came in to read this.

 

[TheArsenal]

If McCartney is rich today, it's because of the Beatles' songwriting catalog. McCartney got rich from actually writing music that people wanted to use in movies and TV shows and commercials, not from playing bass guitar in a rock band. If Courtney Love can't write songs that are worth something independent of the actual recordings she made, then tough luck.

I heavily paraphrase, but Paul Simonon of The Clash put it this way: "You find out quickly, if you want to make any money in a band, you better write some songs."

 

[CaptJimboJones]

It always amazes me when people cite this article as some sort of justification for illegal downloading. Even if you agree with her 100% (and I do agree with points, for the most part) stealing music doesn't help anything - it just sucks even more money out of the system which screws over the musicians and songwriters even more.

 

[TheBrew]

It always amazes me when people cite this article as some sort of justification for illegal downloading. Even if you agree with her 100% (and I do agree with points, for the most part) stealing music doesn't help anything - it just sucks even more money out of the system which screws over the musicians and songwriters even more.

Maybe I should torrent albums and write a check directly to the band instead of buying the CD in stores?

 

[stryderjzw]

It always amazes me when people cite this article as some sort of justification for illegal downloading. Even if you agree with her 100% (and I do agree with points, for the most part) stealing music doesn't help anything - it just sucks even more money out of the system which screws over the musicians and songwriters even more.

I do believe articles like this does justify what the Internet has brought on. I do think piracy is stealing and it is wrong, but I think it is a good thing in this case.

The whole system that the industry has set up is stealing as well. Just because they find ways to cheat musicians out of their money in a "lawful" manner doesn't make it any morally better than what piracy is.

The recording industry says piracy takes away profits, which means less incentive for musicians to create music. They say that piracy hurts creativity in the long run and that people will stop buying music altogether. I don't believe that's true.

Most artists make music because of their love for music. The Internet has helped artists to share music and to connect with fans. This is only a good thing. It will take time for the music artists to learn to leverage the Internet. (Some have already done it.)

Piracy is hurting the music industry and I think that's the good thing. For everyone... except the suits.