World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

[gh4chiefs]

I hate to open a can of worms...but why is Vulcan so important? Its not as if the Vulcan RACE has been wiped out. They still exist as a species. An endangered species yes, but its not the be all end all of Vulcan society. In the context of the story, Vulcan was a big enough target on the characters to elicit a powerful emotional response, but in other stories set in this universe? What is the significance of the planet Vulcan that im missing out on?

Well again, I guess I can't keep a promise because I said wouldn't post anymore, but here I am.

Dac I just think it's either something you feel or you don't. I've said again and again that I don't understand the point of view that's it okay to blow it up, but I also recogonize, as you're pointing out, that you don't really understand why someone like me opposes it.

For me at least, it was just a part of the legend, the mythos, a part of the Star Trek universe that should not have been tampered with. I didn't get caught up in all the discussion about where the Enterprise was built, and so forth. But this discussion drew me in, because it seemed more important to the Trek universe and seemed a little more personal to me. But I readily recogonize I'm in a small minority of fans that feels that way.

Something Starship Polaris said made me rethink what I said about it being my age. That's probably a crutch. It's probably more about my personality and resistance to change. I was able to accept a lot of the changes to the ship, and I wasn't particularily caught up in the back story of the characters. So I can roll with the punches on that. But to think of a TOS Star Trek universe going forward where the planet Vulcan does not exist . . . I'm sorry but I just see that as just wrong.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

For me, I can kind of equate in my head that the Vulcan situation works itself out, in that the pics I've seen from the movie so far show Vulcan as a well-developed planet, with cities and such. But, in TOS, it looks far more primitive. There aren't those highly-developed cities, not even the reuse of that city backdrop they'd use for Starbases or the city from "Wink Of An Eye".

For me, I'm just putting that spin on it, and holding out until I see the movie to find out if it's mentioned at all regarding how they resolve the destruction.

 

[Strekrules]

Alright Guys,

I've probably only posted 5 times on these boards since Enterprise went off the air, but I figure now is a good time to post again.

Just saw "Star Trek" last night at the AMC in Orlando. The Paramount lady was quite nice, and AMC was quite awesome and moved theaters around to give us their biggest. Not a bad crowd. Probably 50% Trek Fans, and 50% people who just liked going to a free movie. Amazingly, about 50% of the people there were females. Nobody Dressed Up (minus some Trek T-Shirts).

To the movie....

I'm still not sure what to make of it. Was it great? Nah. Was it epic? Somewhat. Was it good? YES. It was a VERY solid 2 hour film. It had A LOT of comedy. It had a fair number of sad moments. It had a good number of action scenes.

Without a doubt this was the best Star Trek film since First Contact, and more important, it was the best mainstream film EVER. Let's be honest, Trek was dead. In order for it to survive, it needs to get new fans, and needs A LOT of them. This movie was designed to do just that. That being said, I think the movie is A LOT better having seen every episode/movie of Trek. There are A LOT of refences in here. Especially from The Wrath of Kahn.

I guess my problem is that it didn't "feel" like Star Trek. It's like nothing we've seen before. So while I don't think that is a bad thing...it just makes it feel kinda weird.

Some Pros:
- The Enterprise looks great
- The Enterprise sets we see are nice.
- The Destruction of the Kelvin (first 10 minutes) is AMAZING. By far the best part of the movie
- Kirk is a good guy. You want to cheer for him.
- Scotty is a lot of fun here
- Bones is dead on.
- Capt/Admir Pine is AWESOME. A great father figure for Kirk.
- Old Spock is great, and really connects the old with the new.
- Old Spock with Kirk was great
- The Introducton of Scotty was hilarious.
- Kirk's sex scene..haha....classic
- Kirk and Spock's friendship (start of)
- Neros' "SPOOOCKKKK... SPOCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!" yell was very "KAHHHNNN"-ish
- Pine's "Chair" at the very end. No Blinking lights though...

Some Cons:
It just felt too rushed! I know the movie tops out at 2 hours, but this could have been a 3 hr movie, EASY. In fact, I noticed A LOT of the scenes from the trailer aren't even IN the movie (from what I remember). Baby Spock? MIA. Kirk's Step-Dad MIA (at least we don't see him in person). The scene with Nero punching some aliens (I think Klignons?), MIA. I just think there may be A LOT of this film left on the cutting room floor. I wanted to see more of Kirk & Pine's Father-like scenes. I wanted to see Young Kirk a bit more, so I could see how the lack of a father changed him. It just felt that we had these great characters yet didn't get to spend much time with them. This story was 60% about Kirk, 30% about Spock, and maybe 10% about everyone else. Is this a bad thing? No. But I just wanted more!

As far as the timeline mess. Whatever. I doubt we will ever see the TNG-era again on screen so Romulus being destroyed isn't a big deal. I'm just glad they didn't do a full-out "reboot". This way the last 50 years of Trek are still out there, while the next 50 years is just beginning.

So in short: a good summer movie. Trek is back.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

For me, I can kind of equate in my head that the Vulcan situation works itself out, in that the pics I've seen from the movie so far show Vulcan as a well-developed planet, with cities and such. But, in TOS, it looks far more primitive. There aren't those highly-developed cities, not even the reuse of that city backdrop they'd use for Starbases or the city from "Wink Of An Eye".

I just had a thought: Either Abrams, or Orci/Kurtzman, said once that a lot of the things in this film could actually have happened in the original timeline as well. I realize I'm grasping at straws here but perhaps the destruction of Vulcan was one of these things? Obviously Nero couldn't have been responsible, but maybe something else was.

Strekrules: What does Engineering look like?

 

[Strekrules]

Engineering looks like a Chemical Plant...

In fact, I think they filmed it AT a chemical plant. So it's not pretty like the Engine Room in ENT, but it does look HUGE (like you really could be in a huge starship).

There wasn't really a need for Engineering though. Scotty doesn't turn up til the end, and even then he spends most of his time on the Bridge. I'm guessing Engineering will be built-out for Star Trek II (err 12..).

 

[Devon]

In fact, I think they filmed it AT a chemical plant. So it's not pretty like the Engine Room in ENT, but it does look HUGE (like you really could be in a huge starship).

It was filmed at a Brewery.

 

[Captain X]

How appropriate.

 

[Kelso]

Something Starship Polaris said made me rethink what I said about it being my age. That's probably a crutch. It's probably more about my personality and resistance to change. I was able to accept a lot of the changes to the ship, and I wasn't particularily caught up in the back story of the characters. So I can roll with the punches on that. But to think of a TOS Star Trek universe going forward where the planet Vulcan does not exist . . . I'm sorry but I just see that as just wrong.

The off-screen destruction of the planet 'Gallifrey' did more for the Doctor Who mythos than the planet's 40 year existence ever had... particularly by adding extra layers of depth to The Doctor's character.

With luck, the destruction of Vulcan will have the same effect on Spock and the over-all Star Trek universe.

It immediately makes the possibilities for Spock's future far more interesting (and I haven't even seen the flick yet). Just as The Doctor is now The Last of the Timelords, Spock is a member of an endangered species. I can't wait to see how that plays out in the future.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Why is Spock even still alive? As we remember from the Intrepid, the deaths of a mere *430* Vulcans almost crippled him. The death of the entire race would kill him.

 

[Dac]

I hate to open a can of worms...but why is Vulcan so important? Its not as if the Vulcan RACE has been wiped out. They still exist as a species. An endangered species yes, but its not the be all end all of Vulcan society. In the context of the story, Vulcan was a big enough target on the characters to elicit a powerful emotional response, but in other stories set in this universe? What is the significance of the planet Vulcan that im missing out on?

Well again, I guess I can't keep a promise because I said wouldn't post anymore, but here I am.

Dac I just think it's either something you feel or you don't. I've said again and again that I don't understand the point of view that's it okay to blow it up, but I also recogonize, as you're pointing out, that you don't really understand why someone like me opposes it.

For me at least, it was just a part of the legend, the mythos, a part of the Star Trek universe that should not have been tampered with. I didn't get caught up in all the discussion about where the Enterprise was built, and so forth. But this discussion drew me in, because it seemed more important to the Trek universe and seemed a little more personal to me. But I readily recogonize I'm in a small minority of fans that feels that way.

Something Starship Polaris said made me rethink what I said about it being my age. That's probably a crutch. It's probably more about my personality and resistance to change. I was able to accept a lot of the changes to the ship, and I wasn't particularily caught up in the back story of the characters. So I can roll with the punches on that. But to think of a TOS Star Trek universe going forward where the planet Vulcan does not exist . . . I'm sorry but I just see that as just wrong.

A fair point indeed. Just like the look and feel of the ship has a resonance with me, I can understand how Vulcan would have the same impact.

However, what I want to make clear is that, Yes, while Vulcan is destroyed, it DOES have a lot of the screen time devoted to its destruction after the fact, its something which makes this universe what it is. The original trek universe still continues on which is part of the beauty of this remake. Its a remake without actually being one. Which means only the first minute or so takes place in the original series. The second the Narada pops into existence, the new universe is created and anything from that moment on is possible. Its Chaos Theory. One simple event starts a chain reaction from which anything is possible. Just so happens, Drama is born from stuff happening out of the ordinary, and Vulcan getting blown up - well, from the very passionate reaction generated by this thread, it evokes the right emotions the writers wanted. Grief and sorrow, but also hope in the face of evil. Life from the jaws of death. Something which Star Trek has prided itself upon for many many years. And in the death of Vulcan, Earth is saved which if you want to go all poetic about: Earth is the home of the federation, the new beacon of hope in the galaxy, whereas Vulcan is history symbolised in the fact that it has existed for so long. Its allegorical for the franchise. In the death of Star Trek, It is reborn into something different yet fundamentally the same. Which is what this movie is all about, and I cant help but hope the loss of Vulcan will ruin your enjoyment of what is essentially a brilliant movie.

 

[M'Sharak]

^ Why is Spock even still alive? As we remember from the Intrepid, the deaths of a mere *430* Vulcans almost crippled him. The death of the entire race would kill him.

I'm remembering the then-somewhat cryptic statement Quinto made months ago about the story showing Spock at a time when he is "not in control of his balance". Spock wasn't crippled by the destruction of the Intrepid; it was a blow, but he was already largely recovered at the beginning of the first act:

(Spock is on a biobed, being scanned.)
SPOCK: I assure you, Doctor, I am quite all right. The pain was momentary. It passed quickly.
MCCOY: All of my instruments seem to agree with you if I can trust these crazy Vulcan readings. Spock, how can you be so sure the lntrepid was destroyed?

The population of an entire planet* dies, while Spock is in close proximity? Yeah, that's going to hurt, and is definitely going to result in him having trouble controlling his balance, at least in the short term.


* Incidentally, does anyone have a clue as to what the population of Vulcan is, at this or any other time? Is it large? Are they not a numerous people? Has it ever been stated, generally or explicitly how many Vulcans there are at any given time?

 

[Dac]

The film shows A vulcan city to be quite large, and a classroom of about 50 or so students. However, I dont know how many cities there are on the planet, and what the living arrangements as opposed to workplaces are in this city.

I would hazard a guess though that most of the Vulcan fleet (at vulcan) was probably destroyed by Nero, as Vulcan is out of contact with the rest of the galaxy for a large amount of time from the point where the distress call is received to when it is finally destroyed. (Although I have to mention the Enterprise Warps to Vulcan in a rather short amount of time - Around 10 minutes at "Maximum Warp").

 

[FarDreaming]

....I cant help but hope the loss of Vulcan will ruin your enjoyment of what is essentially a brilliant movie.

Well, I for one am pretty sure it will ruin the movie for me. Up until these rumors started to surface, I was really looking forward to this movie. Now I look upon seeing it with all the thrill of going to the dentist for a root canal. I have my ticket for opening day not because I am excited to see it, but because I want to get it over with.

 

[Captain Robert April]

...in the same tried-and-true vein of the great epics -- which Star Trek is anyway.

Since when?

No, I'm not joking.

 

[shipfisher]

Alright Guys,



Some Cons:
It just felt too rushed! I know the movie tops out at 2 hours, but this could have been a 3 hr movie, EASY. In fact, I noticed A LOT of the scenes from the trailer aren't even IN the movie (from what I remember). Baby Spock? MIA. Kirk's Step-Dad MIA (at least we don't see him in person). The scene with Nero punching some aliens (I think Klignons?), MIA. I just think there may be A LOT of this film left on the cutting room floor.

Can anyone say "DVD/Blu-ray director's cut"?

 

[FlyingLemons]

I think the destruction of Vulcan opens up a huge amount of possibilities for new stories in future - it gives us a totally new spin on the Vulcan race, and should allow future incarnations of Star Trek that might be set in this universe to tackle modern day issues. I'm thinking that probably should we see a series it'll definitely pick up on this, and they'll be able to tell some great stories using this plot device.

 

[Captain Robert April]

In fact, I think they filmed it AT a chemical plant. So it's not pretty like the Engine Room in ENT, but it does look HUGE (like you really could be in a huge starship).

It was filmed at a Brewery.

Specifically, the Anheiser-Busch brewery in Van Nuys.

Assuming it looks like the brew room at the Coors brewery, of which I have little doubt, it's probably gonna generate plenty of chuckles out here in Denver (if there's one thing we know out here, it's breweries).

 

[ClayHefner]

Although I have to mention the Enterprise Warps to Vulcan in a rather short amount of time - Around 10 minutes at "Maximum Warp"

oh wow. Now that's not a good thing imo.
I mean how can there be any feel of the vastness of space when planets are just minutes away?
I realize that similar stuff was on ENT (4 days to Kronos), Star Trek V and TOS "That which survives", but things like that shouldn't happen anymore. Not in a movie where you establish a new Star Trek.
10 minutes between planets is too little imo.

And also, what's that about Scotty beaming people to the moving Enterprise lightyears away? Won't we ask in future installments "Hey, why don't they just do this Scotty long-range beaming now?"
isn't that part of why the "old Trek" didn't work anymore.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Apparently, JJ doesn't know the difference between warp drive and hyperdrive.

 

[indranee]

it wasn't *just* Vulcan, though. it was also his mother and his feelings for her.

I was thinking last night, having now seen the movie (and of course everything that came before it) -- the most interesting thing about the story that JJ tells us is not about heroism or destiny. it was about loss.

JJ and crew effectively mined the emotions of the characters to tell a kick-ass action-adventure story in the same tried-and-true vein of the great epics -- which Star Trek is anyway. I have to give him big, BIG kudos for that.

Yeah, I kind of meant the whole package. When they beam up and he's still reaching out for her - gulp - nearly cried!

...in the same tried-and-true vein of the great epics -- which Star Trek is anyway.

Since when?

No, I'm not joking.

1964.

and why should you be joking?