World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

[Kruge]

Neopeius

Exactly! Its sci-fi, anything is possible!

Although I do hope personally that the time-travel aspect of this new Trek is merely a plot device for this reboot film...I hope it's not a recurring thing...

This is I Star Trek after all, not TimeTrek

Or is it?

Guess we'll know soon enough

 

[Franklin]

Franklin....

Again, we don't know where the story is going to go...why not wait to find out? If the sequel rolls around and the incident is ignored, then you are probably right, but the first movie hasn't even premiered "officially" in the U.S. yet!

Calm down...it's fiction...a work of art...it wont remain static

You're right, and so is Augustus. As far as "calm down" goes, I'm serious enough about this to be bothered, but realistic enough to walk away from it. I would like to hear if Orci and Kurtzman ever debated the ramifications of destroying Vulcan, though. I'd hate to think it was done for the KEWL factor.
I look forward to be thoroughly entertained by this movie. I look forward to the sequel. My hope hangs on Abrams remembering it's about the characters. Still, regarding that sequel and destroying Vulcan in this movie, to quote a famous starship captain, "May fortune favor the foolish."

 

[Augustus]

Franklin....

Again, we don't know where the story is going to go...why not wait to find out? If the sequel rolls around and the incident is ignored, then you are probably right, but the first movie hasn't even premiered "officially" in the U.S. yet!

Calm down...it's fiction...a work of art...it wont remain static

You're right, and so is Augustus. As far as "calm down" goes, I'm serious enough about this to be bothered, but realistic enough to walk away from it. I would like to hear if Orci and Kurtzman ever debated the ramifications of destroying Vulcan, though. I'd hate to think it was done for the KEWL factor.
I look forward to be thoroughly entertained by this movie. I look forward to the sequel. My hope hangs on Abrams remembering it's about the characters. Still, regarding that sequel and destroying Vulcan in this movie, to quote a famous starship captain, "May fortune favor the foolish."

Agreed!

 

[Kruge]

I think that the only unfortunate thing that his been done for the KEWL factor is those stupid "This isn't your father's Trek" spots that have been popping up on TV

As a complete nerd, I have full confidence that they have discussed all the ramifications...I know I would have

Besides, if YOU were given the helm of the franchise for a film, there are alot more interesting things you could probably blow up for the KEWL factor...I think this was done for drama, and because they have a sense of where they want to take the new Spock character...a little bit more baggage may make him even more admirable than his Prime incarnation

Maybe it's also a warning shot too...maybe Abrams and Co dont want to come off looking like they think that the "reboot" button is carte blanche to make a crappy film and walk away from it, only to "reboot" it a few years down the road...maybe this is their way of saying: "This is Star Trek...it DESERVES a great new beginning, and we're taking this seriously...we wont hit the reboot button later on because we were too lazy to come up with a good film, so we're digging ourselves in for the longhaul"

 

[indranee]

well, folks, I just got back from the free screening in DC (at the AMC-Mazza Gallery).

suffice to say that I am completely overwhelmed and just... unbelievably happy! my day, no, my entire year has been MADE.

and I shall now say what I was hoping to say on the 8th of May:

STAR TREK LIVES, BABY, IT FUCKING LIVES!!!

 

[M'Sharak]

...I would like to hear if Orci and Kurtzman ever debated the ramifications of destroying Vulcan, though. I'd hate to think it was done for the KEWL factor.

...

As a complete nerd, I have full confidence that they have discussed all the ramifications...I know I would have...

I don't have a link, but I'm quite sure I remember Abrams or Orci saying that for every thing which you'll see happen in the movie, there is a reason for it happening. Now, there may be some small detail or other for which the preceding is not strictly true, but I'd be very surprised if they hadn't given this particular detail a great deal of thought.

 

[indranee]

And by the way, the notion that Abrams wasn't paying attention when he wrote this, and that their MUST be more than 10,000 Vulcans left after the destruction of their homeworld...I do not agree....

Yes, the Vulcans have had spacefaring capablities for a very long time, but that does not mean that they have necessarily spread themselves across the cosmos....If you watch Trek, one thing you'll notice is that Humans are one of the few species that are seen as having exploration pretty much coded into their DNA...Vulcans, although scientifically curious, either never seem to possess or strongly repress that drive to seek out new worlds...so even though they may have warp capabilities, it may be that they simply are not interested in settling new worlds...

A human would climb mount everest because "it's there", or travel to the moon because "we can"

A Vulcan may simply not see things the same way...

and yet, Vulcans came to Earth.

 

[indranee]

You know, correct me if I am wrong, but the people that complain about Vulcan blowing up also seem to be the same people that haven't seen the movie yet... and those that have seen the movie, well, I don't think i have heard any complaints.....

Is there a pattern here???
Not sure...

No. The problem is whether or not "blowing up" Vulcan fits into the story they're trying to tell. In other words, is killing BILLLLLLIONS and BILLLILLLIONS of people by "blowing up" their planet really necessary? That's what I don't have confidence in. Does this make Trek more compelling? Does this open up even more story possibilities? Stories we couldn't have had otherwise?
For what it's worth, no one who's seen the movie has yet to say why the destruction of BILLIONS of people "works" within the context of the movie. Where's the payoff?

in THIS story, it was necessary for Spock's growth.

EDIT for the Mods: sorry for the spamming!

 

[M'Sharak]

And by the way, the notion that Abrams wasn't paying attention when he wrote this, and that their MUST be more than 10,000 Vulcans left after the destruction of their homeworld...I do not agree....

Yes, the Vulcans have had spacefaring capablities for a very long time, but that does not mean that they have necessarily spread themselves across the cosmos....If you watch Trek, one thing you'll notice is that Humans are one of the few species that are seen as having exploration pretty much coded into their DNA...Vulcans, although scientifically curious, either never seem to possess or strongly repress that drive to seek out new worlds...so even though they may have warp capabilities, it may be that they simply are not interested in settling new worlds...

A human would climb mount everest because "it's there", or travel to the moon because "we can"

A Vulcan may simply not see things the same way...

and yet, Vulcans came to Earth.

Though we did see that same reluctance in the Vulcans toward exploration depicted in at least one or two episodes ("Breaking the Ice", for example) of Enterprise, didn't we? And was not Spock also described in the OS as having departed from the usual course in choosing to join Starfleet over remaining on Vulcan and entering the Vulcan Science Academy?

 

[indranee]

I think this is one of those contradictions in TOS that ENT grabbed onto and exploited. it worked on ENT, I believe, to an extent. but to characterize Vulcans as "incurious" at times really got to me. they are a scientifically-minded race, from what we have been told by the Genes etc. how CAN a scientist be "incurious"? very idiotic, that.

it's confounding -- the Vulcan mythos. that much is true.

this maybe one of the reasons for the destruction of the planet. JJ gets to start all over again.

we shall see. whatever happens, I'll be there to see it.

 

[Captain X]

You know, if Abrams really wanted to be different and show us anything could happen, he really should've killed someone important. Like say Kirk.

 

[Kelso]

What was the mind meld like?

 

[Rusty0918]

I have a question...how much T&A is in it? I know they got the cocktail dress uniforms. Is it shown blatantly or usually kept to the background?

 

[ThereAre4Lights]

For those of you arguing about the number of Vulcan survivors left: I doubt either Neor or Spock considered the Vulcans on Mintaka III.

 

[EJA]

I think it's pretty obvious there are more than 10,000 Vulcans left in the galaxy. What about all the Vulcans who were off-planet at the time of Nero's attack? And Vulcans do have colony worlds, as seen in ENT Shadows of P'Jem. But blowing up Vulcan was a dumb move anyway IMO. It would've been a lot simpler to just have it get smashed up a bit.

 

[Kruge]

And by the way, the notion that Abrams wasn't paying attention when he wrote this, and that their MUST be more than 10,000 Vulcans left after the destruction of their homeworld...I do not agree....

Yes, the Vulcans have had spacefaring capablities for a very long time, but that does not mean that they have necessarily spread themselves across the cosmos....If you watch Trek, one thing you'll notice is that Humans are one of the few species that are seen as having exploration pretty much coded into their DNA...Vulcans, although scientifically curious, either never seem to possess or strongly repress that drive to seek out new worlds...so even though they may have warp capabilities, it may be that they simply are not interested in settling new worlds...

A human would climb mount everest because "it's there", or travel to the moon because "we can"

A Vulcan may simply not see things the same way...

and yet, Vulcans came to Earth.

Though we did see that same reluctance in the Vulcans toward exploration depicted in at least one or two episodes ("Breaking the Ice", for example) of Enterprise, didn't we? And was not Spock also described in the OS as having departed from the usual course in choosing to join Starfleet over remaining on Vulcan and entering the Vulcan Science Academy?

Yes, you mean the half human Spock? I never said that Vulcans were not curious, of course they are! Otherwise, as was pointed out, they would not have to come earth to see what all the fuss was about

I simply mean that you would expect humanity to spread itself out as much as possible incase JJ The Planet Killer comes a-knocking, and you would expect humans to "boldy go" (or, to be a nitpicker, "go boldly"), but Vulcans have proven themselves to be quite unpredictable, so to expect them to do what humans would do is...well...

And by the way, remember that Nero pops out of the singularity many years before Spock does and lies in wait...now who's to say that he doesn't attack a few Vulcan outposts before going after the big prize itself?

And on Mintaka III, those were proto Vulcans...

 

[THE CHEBB]

indeed... I also find it interesting, that Nimoy, that man that IS Spock, IS what Vulcan, their culture, everything, etc is based on, was moved to tears by the movie and felt honored to be a part of it.

Seems to me that if he isn't "offended" or "disturbed" by it, we should at least have an open mind...

Edit: Yay! 1,000th post!!! I'm a Fleet Captain Suckas!!!!

Congratulations man!

Shigitty....

 

[zacharyquintouk]

You know, correct me if I am wrong, but the people that complain about Vulcan blowing up also seem to be the same people that haven't seen the movie yet... and those that have seen the movie, well, I don't think i have heard any complaints.....

Is there a pattern here???
Not sure...

No. The problem is whether or not "blowing up" Vulcan fits into the story they're trying to tell. In other words, is killing BILLLLLLIONS and BILLLILLLIONS of people by "blowing up" their planet really necessary? That's what I don't have confidence in. Does this make Trek more compelling? Does this open up even more story possibilities? Stories we couldn't have had otherwise?
For what it's worth, no one who's seen the movie has yet to say why the destruction of BILLIONS of people "works" within the context of the movie. Where's the payoff?

If Vulcan isn't destroyed there is nothing to move Spock to lose it on the bridge of the enterprise, therefore resigning his command. If he doesn't resign his command then Kirk as First Officer doesn't assume command and become Captain.

It had to be something big to make Spock attack Kirk and bounce him all over the bridge, and the fact that he knows Nero is capable of that destruction leads him to get involved in the Pike rescue mission and befriend Kirk to stop Earth from going the same way.

 

[Dac]

I'm betting that the next movie will, somehow, involve a temporal adventure saving the planet Vulcan. Star Trek fandom was equally irked by Spock's death. Look how that turned out.

Never count a Vulcan dead until you see his body, and even then you can make mistakes.

~String

If that happens, then it ruins everything good in this movie.

Losing Vulcan is the catalyst that tells the (trekkie) audience "Look. This is an ALTERNATE TIMELINE. Anything can happen."

Live with it.

It happens, and we'll live with it. I don't want to see a story around trying to bring it back. But I think they made the point very clear it was an alternate timeline before destroying Vulcan. And, killing Amanda alone would've alerted fans that no one, or no thing was safe.

You've seen the movie, so you can guess better than us just how much this event may reverberate beyond this movie. If it does, fine. The die is cast. Let's see how it unfolds.
If this was a one-off gimmick just to stir up the pot and stun the fans (what non-fan could feel the same way?), then it wasn't worth giving up Vulcan in this timeline for all the similar uniforms, familiar sound effects, insider references, dead red shirts, Orion girls, and tribbles that do exist in it.

A Very good point actually...

Unlike something, such as Spock being captured and held hostage through the end of a film, or the Enterprise is damaged beyond repair, where you can just pop up and say "Here we are Spock!" or "Here's your new Enterprise Captain" the loss of a planet is something which cannot be recovered nor replaced. It plays a massive part of the story after the halfway mark of the film, and is devoted the appropriate screentime imo for a film such as this (the big summer blockbuster).

However, you know Vulcans. Its happened and theres nothing they can do about it. Constantly dwelling on the fact WOULD be illogical.

That isnt to say it will never ever be mentioned again should this universe continue, but the fact is it doesnt need to be constantly referred too in the long term, especially not by a race who pride themselves on logic.

There is a moment in the film where Spock speaks to Sarek, and (imo) they show bucketloads of emotion in one line without actually changing their blank expressions...It was certainly unique in Star Trek thats for sure.

 

[gh4chiefs]

Perhaps this is an age thing, I don't know. And people PLEASE don't take this as a beligerent or confrontational post because I seriously don't mean it that way. But I'm genuinely confused as to how someone who professes to be a fan of TOS can possibly be okay with Vulcan being destroyed. It just boggles my mind.

But as I said, it's probably (at least partially anyway) an age thing. I'm 48 and probably a lot older than most of you here. I was 5 when the TOS debuted, and I'm not 100% certain if I ever saw a first run episode in "real-time" or not, but I know I became a regular viewer of the syndicated reruns in the very early 70s and have been hooked ever since.

I was thinking about my childhood from that point on, about my friendships I formed and how ST played a role in that. Even into high school and college, I can remember how much ST affected my life. Yet at the sametime I wasn't overboard with it. I've never been to a convention (although I did go see Gene Rodenberry when he came to our campus back in 84) and I've never worn a uniform, or put on spock ears or whatever. I've always been a fan, but not a fanatic.

So do I have an illogical emotional attachment to a TV show? Probably so. But what can I say, Star Trek, TOS was an important part of my life for many years. And now we're going to "reboot" or "reimagine" or whatever Star Trek. OK, I get that. Not thrilled about it, but hey I've made peace with it. I get that things are going to change because it's 40+ years later. But I just think the destruction of Vulcan (and now I'm reading about the death of Amanda ) was one change that was just too much for this old Trekker to bear.

So I think this will be my last post in the STXI forum and I've got 2 weeks from today to decide what I'm going to do. As luck would have it, I think I'm going to be off work that day. But I'm just not sure if my curiousity about the film will overcome my distaste for what they've done. Time will tell I guess. And like I said before, whether I go or not, or whether I like it or not, has no bearing whatsoever on the future of the franchise. I'm not deluded into thinking me staying home will have any impact. But for my own personal sense of what is right and what is wrong, I may have to.

For those of you who are going to go and enjoy the movie and aren't bothered by this aspect of it, more power to you. As I said before, I simply can't come to terms with a TOS fan not being bothered by it, BUT while I don't understand, I have to respect your opinion and wouldn't dream to tell you what to like and what not to like.

Live long and prosper.