I might have been able to say okay, with one, but both? Why both?
Because the worse you beat up a protagonist, the better for the story.
World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]
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Because the worse you beat up a protagonist, the better for the story.
I might have been able to say okay, with one, but both? Why both?
Because the worse you beat up a protagonist, the better for the story.
Maybe if you are into hurt/comfort it does, but I have never been a fan of that particular genre.
How much you can beat up a protagonist does not a better story make. The more talented writer would be able to use a single tragedy to great advantage. This is overkill.
I might have been able to say okay, with one, but both? Why both?
Because the worse you beat up a protagonist, the better for the story.
He's Spock, not Job.
And, this ain't Rocky.
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Complacency is illogical. It is a human emotion.
Comapred to those attacks, or even the destruction of Florida in ENT, out of probably billions, there are fewer than 10,000 Vulcans left according to Spock. That's genocide on the big screen. Serious, show-stopping stuff. Sobering. Honestly, this is the worst thing that's ever happened in on-screen Trek. Thank goodness Scotty will provide comic relief.
Not only how does Spock handle it, but how do Kirk and Pike get over it? The mistake Kirk thought he made in "Obsession" stayed with him for years. Don't you think this should play over and over a few times in his head. What could have been done differently?
Usually in Trek, when the stakes have been this high, our heroes came thorugh. Didn't do this time. That will have to leave a mark.
Not to be judgemental about those shrugging this off, but would this creative decision had been as easy to swallow if Orci and Kurtzman had decided to have Nero destroy Earth instead of Vulcan? What if when the movie ended there were fewer than 10,000 humans left in the galaxy?
If it is true that "Prime Spock" stays in this new universe to help rebuild Vulcan society then how do you think he'll go about it? After all Romulus still exists in this universe and Spock tried for many years attempting to reunite the Romulans and Vulcans, my guess is that this can be explored in future films. The exact nature of how they'll repopulate a new Vulcan homeworld would enable us to see and learn a great deal about both the Vulcans and Romulans. It would be interesting to see how the Federation and the now endangered Vulcans would react to such a proposal.
Complacency is illogical. It is a human emotion.
Comapred to those attacks, or even the destruction of Florida in ENT, out of probably billions, there are fewer than 10,000 Vulcans left according to Spock. That's genocide on the big screen. Serious, show-stopping stuff. Sobering. Honestly, this is the worst thing that's ever happened in on-screen Trek. Thank goodness Scotty will provide comic relief.
Not only how does Spock handle it, but how do Kirk and Pike get over it? The mistake Kirk thought he made in "Obsession" stayed with him for years. Don't you think this should play over and over a few times in his head. What could have been done differently?
Usually in Trek, when the stakes have been this high, our heroes came thorugh. Didn't do this time. That will have to leave a mark.
Not to be judgemental about those shrugging this off, but would this creative decision had been as easy to swallow if Orci and Kurtzman had decided to have Nero destroy Earth instead of Vulcan? What if when the movie ended there were fewer than 10,000 humans left in the galaxy?
If it is true that "Prime Spock" stays in this new universe to help rebuild Vulcan society then how do you think he'll go about it? After all Romulus still exists in this universe and Spock tried for many years attempting to reunite the Romulans and Vulcans, my guess is that this can be explored in future films. The exact nature of how they'll repopulate a new Vulcan homeworld would enable us to see and learn a great deal about both the Vulcans and Romulans. It would be interesting to see how the Federation and the now endangered Vulcans would react to such a proposal.
Which leads to stories with a HULLUVA lot of exposition. And, it's hardly, "Strange new worlds." It puts all the baggage in the new universe.
I might have been able to say okay, with one, but both? Why both?
Because the worse you beat up a protagonist, the better for the story.
Maybe if you are into hurt/comfort it does, but I have never been a fan of that particular genre.
Please do not bring nonsense fanfic language and concepts into this.
It's a very simple principle of dramatic writing - the higher the mountain the protagonist has to climb, the worse the travails, the higher the stakes, the greater the likelihood of failure, the greater the heartbreak - the more potentially gripping the story (you know, unless the writer fucks it up
).Interesting, bringing up Rocky - a far more successful series of movies, on the whole, than Star Trek.
Complacency is illogical. It is a human emotion.
Comapred to those attacks, or even the destruction of Florida in ENT, out of probably billions, there are fewer than 10,000 Vulcans left according to Spock. That's genocide on the big screen. Serious, show-stopping stuff. Sobering. Honestly, this is the worst thing that's ever happened in on-screen Trek. Thank goodness Scotty will provide comic relief.
Not only how does Spock handle it, but how do Kirk and Pike get over it? The mistake Kirk thought he made in "Obsession" stayed with him for years. Don't you think this should play over and over a few times in his head. What could have been done differently?
Usually in Trek, when the stakes have been this high, our heroes came thorugh. Didn't do this time. That will have to leave a mark.
Not to be judgemental about those shrugging this off, but would this creative decision had been as easy to swallow if Orci and Kurtzman had decided to have Nero destroy Earth instead of Vulcan? What if when the movie ended there were fewer than 10,000 humans left in the galaxy?
If it is true that "Prime Spock" stays in this new universe to help rebuild Vulcan society then how do you think he'll go about it? After all Romulus still exists in this universe and Spock tried for many years attempting to reunite the Romulans and Vulcans, my guess is that this can be explored in future films. The exact nature of how they'll repopulate a new Vulcan homeworld would enable us to see and learn a great deal about both the Vulcans and Romulans. It would be interesting to see how the Federation and the now endangered Vulcans would react to such a proposal.
Which leads to stories with a HULLUVA lot of exposition. And, it's hardly, "Strange new worlds." It puts all the baggage in the new universe.
You can't have your cake and eat it.
Exactly (and I mean that without a shred of sacrasm). Because that's where they've put themselves. Pandora's Box, metaphorically.
I liked the first four Rocky movies a lot. But it's another genre.
Yeah, it really will have to be dealt with, reading some of the reviews it does seem that they're much more interested in character interaction and development than plot so I don't get the impression this will, or indeed, should just fade away. I guess time will tell.
Agreed. And at least Abrams understands it's about the characters.
You know, correct me if I am wrong, but the people that complain about Vulcan blowing up also seem to be the same people that haven't seen the movie yet... and those that have seen the movie, well, I don't think i have heard any complaints.....
Is there a pattern here???
Not sure...
Is there a pattern here???
Not sure...
I think you're right Augustus, there is a pattern
Personally, I cannot understand the notion that destroying Vulcan was "at best, unneccesary"
None of us wrote the film, and even those of us that have seen it (I haven't) did not write the story, so we have no idea whether or not the destruction of Vulcan was "necessary" for the storyline or not....
Given the fact that this is an origin story, think back to most of the reboot/origin story films you've scene..invariably, something that occurs in the first film is meant to set up a much larger story in the subsequent installments.
I didn't write this film, I cannot read minds, but I would be extremely surprised if the writers were only thinking in terms of this one single film...they must at leasthave some sense of where they'd like to take the story from here, if given the opportunity, so I'd say it's best to wait until we see the entire story arc (if there is one of course)
personally, while I agree that the destruction of Vulcan is troubling, I can also envision very interesting stories coming from it...and I don't just mean in a possible sequel film either, but from fan fiction and mainstream novelizations..the idea of the Vulcans( beloved by many fans), portrayed as often condescending toward other cultures, being forced into the status of refugees...having to settle elsewhere, perhaps along the very species (Humans, for example) they are so often quick to criticize..it could be very interesting...they won't be able to be so insular, and yet I'm sure many will become Vulcan purists, living in their own small enclaves, doing what they can to preserve their culture...this could go in many fascinating directions
Or not...I'll find out at 9:55 pm on May 7th
Worst...week of waiting...ever!!
Personally, I cannot understand the notion that destroying Vulcan was "at best, unneccesary"
None of us wrote the film, and even those of us that have seen it (I haven't) did not write the story, so we have no idea whether or not the destruction of Vulcan was "necessary" for the storyline or not....
Given the fact that this is an origin story, think back to most of the reboot/origin story films you've scene..invariably, something that occurs in the first film is meant to set up a much larger story in the subsequent installments.
I didn't write this film, I cannot read minds, but I would be extremely surprised if the writers were only thinking in terms of this one single film...they must at leasthave some sense of where they'd like to take the story from here, if given the opportunity, so I'd say it's best to wait until we see the entire story arc (if there is one of course)
personally, while I agree that the destruction of Vulcan is troubling, I can also envision very interesting stories coming from it...and I don't just mean in a possible sequel film either, but from fan fiction and mainstream novelizations..the idea of the Vulcans( beloved by many fans), portrayed as often condescending toward other cultures, being forced into the status of refugees...having to settle elsewhere, perhaps along the very species (Humans, for example) they are so often quick to criticize..it could be very interesting...they won't be able to be so insular, and yet I'm sure many will become Vulcan purists, living in their own small enclaves, doing what they can to preserve their culture...this could go in many fascinating directions
Or not...I'll find out at 9:55 pm on May 7th
Worst...week of waiting...ever!!
indeed... I also find it interesting, that Nimoy, that man that IS Spock, IS what Vulcan, their culture, everything, etc is based on, was moved to tears by the movie and felt honored to be a part of it.
Seems to me that if he isn't "offended" or "disturbed" by it, we should at least have an open mind...
Edit: Yay! 1,000th post!!! I'm a Fleet Captain Suckas!!!!
Seems to me that if he isn't "offended" or "disturbed" by it, we should at least have an open mind...
Edit: Yay! 1,000th post!!! I'm a Fleet Captain Suckas!!!!
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And by the way, the notion that Abrams wasn't paying attention when he wrote this, and that their MUST be more than 10,000 Vulcans left after the destruction of their homeworld...I do not agree....
Yes, the Vulcans have had spacefaring capablities for a very long time, but that does not mean that they have necessarily spread themselves across the cosmos....If you watch Trek, one thing you'll notice is that Humans are one of the few species that are seen as having exploration pretty much coded into their DNA...Vulcans, although scientifically curious, either never seem to possess or strongly repress that drive to seek out new worlds...so even though they may have warp capabilities, it may be that they simply are not interested in settling new worlds...
A human would climb mount everest because "it's there", or travel to the moon because "we can"
A Vulcan may simply not see things the same way...
Yes, the Vulcans have had spacefaring capablities for a very long time, but that does not mean that they have necessarily spread themselves across the cosmos....If you watch Trek, one thing you'll notice is that Humans are one of the few species that are seen as having exploration pretty much coded into their DNA...Vulcans, although scientifically curious, either never seem to possess or strongly repress that drive to seek out new worlds...so even though they may have warp capabilities, it may be that they simply are not interested in settling new worlds...
A human would climb mount everest because "it's there", or travel to the moon because "we can"
A Vulcan may simply not see things the same way...
No. The problem is whether or not "blowing up" Vulcan fits into the story they're trying to tell. In other words, is killing BILLLLLLIONS and BILLLILLLIONS of people by "blowing up" their planet really necessary? That's what I don't have confidence in. Does this make Trek more compelling? Does this open up even more story possibilities? Stories we couldn't have had otherwise?
For what it's worth, no one who's seen the movie has yet to say why the destruction of BILLIONS of people "works" within the context of the movie. Where's the payoff?
Out of curiosity, has anyone who has seen the movie noted anything about the "new" stardates...I think someone mentioned that they have been "simplified" (whatever that means), and I was just curioous...Do they use a stardate of 2233.4? Are we to take that as the year 2233?
Aside from dramatics, is there any reason why Vulcan should not be restored?
Again, in a time travel milieu, nothing is stable.
Franklin....
Again, we don't know where the story is going to go...why not wait to find out? If the sequel rolls around and the incident is ignored, then you are probably right, but the first movie hasn't even premiered "officially" in the U.S. yet!
Calm down...it's fiction...a work of art...it wont remain static
Again, we don't know where the story is going to go...why not wait to find out? If the sequel rolls around and the incident is ignored, then you are probably right, but the first movie hasn't even premiered "officially" in the U.S. yet!
Calm down...it's fiction...a work of art...it wont remain static
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