Published authors profits?

[SicOne]

A couple of questions for the published Trek authors, if I may. Feel free to tell me to go to hell or mind my own business...

Guys, while reading the Copyright thread, it had me thinking of how much the published Trek authors actually earn performing the craft. I was wondering, if I may be so bold, (1) how much you earned for your first professional Trek sale, whether a stand-alone book or a contribution to an anthology, (2) how much you earned for your most recent Trek book, and (3) how the proceeds are divided between Pocket Books, Paramount, the author, and the author's agent (and whatever other money-grubbing Ferengi is a participant in the process), as well as the division of earnings (i.e. advance versus future payments). If you want to share, feel free; don't need specifics (unless you want, and are at liberty to divulge; confidentiality agreements and contracts may prohibit this information), but would like to hear some round ball-park numbers. The answers can't help but educate budding writers, either way.

I am curious about the rate of return to investment of time and effort as well; some of you may be able to rip out a whole book or short story with the ease of a dirty limerick, while others may struggle for weeks on a single chapter. If you also wish to share how long it generally takes to produce a book, from the time you begin actually writing it out until the time it is ready to submit to Margaret Clark, et al...realizing as I type this out that some of you may have had the idea for years, or even had written the book long ago and merely dusted it off and updated it for current Trek Lit events, such as the Borg incursion of "Destiny", while other of you may have collaborated to varying degrees in each others' works.

Many years ago, when dinosaurs roamed the Plains, I worked for Waldenbooks. My boss mentioned that while you have your multimillion-dollar authors, such as Tom Clancy and Danielle Steele, you have a helluva lot more authors that put out one, two, three books per year, mass-market paperbacks, and make 10k, 20k, 50k per book. I don't know if he had actual evidence to back these assertations up or if he was just pulling numbers out of his arse, but as a naive 20-year-old listening to an actual book store manager, a guy in the know as far as I was concerned, it sounded plausible at the time...as he explained this, I was thinking more about series such as the prolific Don Pendleton "Executioner" and the post-apocalyptic "Deathlands" series than Trek at that time, but I have noticed recently that Christopher, KRAD, and others have been kicking out books on a pretty regular basis.

To that end, I am also wondering what some of you do for a day job, if indeed you still work a day job, if not writing full-time for a living. I seem to recall TerriO discussing that, in the frame of reference of extensive medical bills due to no health insurance for freelance writers, but I may be mistaken (and if you ask Mrs. SicOne, she will tell you I often am).

It stands to reason that someone has asked these questions before, so if there is a link to a previous thread in which these are answered (or shot down in the street like a rabid dog), please feel free to refer me to that. Also, if it is considered bad form or poor protocol to ask these questions (Lord knows I've unwittingly pissed a few of you off this year already...), tell me to shut up, for I know not what I do until you castigate me for it...

OK, fire away.

 

[KRAD]

I'm not remotely comfortable talking numbers in public, whether specific or ballpark, but I will say this:

The way it works with Trek -- and this is how it often (but not always) works in book publishing (though every contract is different from every other contract, and there are always exceptions) -- is that the author gets an advance against royalties, which is generally paid in two or three installments. When those installments are paid varies, but it's generally any two or three of the following possible things happening: signing of the contract, delivery/acceptance of outline, delivery/acceptance of manuscript, publication of book.

That advance is the author's money to keep no matter what, but it is also paid against royalties. With Trek, the author generally gets 3% of the cover price of each book sold -- but the author doesn't see any royalty money until the book has sold enough so that 3% of the cover price of each book sold equals the amount of the advance.

(Example: if you get paid a $5000 advance for a book, and you get a 5% royalty on the book, which has a cover price of $10, then you get $.50 per book sold. However, you don't see a dime of that until after 10,000 books have sold, at which point your $5000 advance has earned out. Starting with the 10,001st book sold, you then actually get the $.50 per book sold.)

If you have an agent, then the agent gets (usually) 15% of whatever you earn. (Be aware that agents are rarely involved in short fiction, as 15% of a thousand bucks or less isn't worth the agent's time.)

As to how much Pocket and CBS/Paramount makes -- that's between Pocket and CBS/Paramount. That arrangement is wholly separate from any deals with authors, and isn't something anyone outside those companies (and most people inside them) are privy to.

I don't have a day job, but that's a difficult thing to accomplish. The only way to make a living at this is to be writing a lot of different things at once (and doing a lot of different types of things). My income over the years has come from writing novels, short stories, eBooks, comic books, lots of stuff for web sites (for example, I've done a lot of content for the SciFi.com site over the past ten years), cover copy, essays, etc., plus editing of eBooks, novels, and anthologies. I'm also currently working part-time for the U.S. Census Bureau, a sop to the crap economy. *sigh* But being able to freelance for a living has more to do with the ability to do many many many things at once than any actual skill as a writer. The only way that doesn't become a factor is if you get to the level of bestsellerhood that a Robert Parker or a Janet Evanovich reaches, where you can put out a book a year and live off that advance.

The other issue is health insurance. TerriO does have a day job, and I'm covered on her insurance. Likewise, one of the reasons why David Mack was willing to quit his day job is because his wife has good insurance. When Peter David signed an exclusive comics deal with Marvel, it got him health insurance. This is a major consideration, especially if you're single or, as in Peter's case, your partner is also freelance.

I generally can write an entire novel in two months. However, that varies wildly. I've taken six months, I've taken two weeks, and I've taken every amount of time in between. It really does depend on the book and the amount of time they give me to write it, not to mention the rest of my schedule....

BTW, the Executioner and Deathlands books are written by ghostwriters for hire, and have been for a very long time now. In fact, I was one of them for the former -- I've got two Executioner novels coming out in December 2009 and June 2010.

Hope that helps....

 

[William Leisner]

Just because it is a matter of public record, I will note that the Strange New Worlds authors (including yours truly) all earned 10 cents a word for their first Trek stories (plus the prize money for the top three prize winners).

Beyond that... what KRAD said.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

KRAD, nor should you have to talk about numbers in public especially since they pertain to you and you alone. But I want to say thank you for your candid answer. It's something I've heard before from various authors I know in the contemporary lit world.

In fact, to add to what KRAD wrote, if I may, a great deal of contemporary lit authors take jobs as university or community college professors, teaching either composition or creative writing, to pay the majority of their living expenses and to get ongoing medical coverage.

Michael Chabon said in an interview once that he writes the occasional screenplay, like Spider-Men 2 and currently John Carter of Mars, not only because he enjoys it but also because it lets him keep his medical insurance benies through the Writer's Guild of America.

 

[JoeZhang]

I've often wondered - I've seen the numbers for a couple of UK tie-in fiction writers (who or how much isn't relevant) - is their payment likely (as a general principle) to be slightly higher because they don't need healthcare payment (or don't need it to be at the same level as a US writer)?

 

[SicOne]

Thanks much, KRAD; that explains a lot. It appears that writing can be lucrative, but only if you're like the magician spinning plates on the ends of rods, and you have to keep everything going, with multiple projects simultaneously. I forgot that you also edit as well. It's remarkable that you participate as extensively on the BBS as you do, with all that you need to do to keep the rent paid.

Working for the U.S. Census Bureau in New York City? I don't envy you...

You mentioned that you're not comfortable talking numbers in public, which is completely understandable, but was I wrong to ask for numbers? Thank you, William Leisner, for that bit of information. I imagine that since SNW was a contest, that the monies were well-outlined so you knew what you were getting into, which would be substantially different from the vagaries of non-anthology book sales.

I understand that the particulars of the Paramount/Pocket Books relationship may not be made privy to the authors. But I would be interested to hear more about that, if any other authors have insights (or well-reasoned speculation) on that.

Thanks, middyseafort, for mentioning that many authors are also lit professors or teachers. That does make a lot of sense that they do that for day jobs, since that's probably why they got into the field in the first place. Though academia is no bed of roses these days, even if you have tenure.

It is an old aphorism in your line of work, KRAD, that you're only as good as your last novel. By that reckoning, I can understand that every contract may be different, as well as the amount and nature of the advance depending on your previous books' sales, and if you hit one out of the park last time, you'll do better next contract (money-wise, that is). Is that an accurate assessment?

It makes me wonder, though. The buzz over Trek books has gotten louder in recent years, and I have to admit, greater collaboration between the authors (and how did that all come about, anyway?) has vastly improved the quality of the books, in my humble opinion. Though I own a copy of just about every Trek fiction book put out since about 1990, I haven't started reading any of them in recent years until about the post-"Nemesis" position in the timeline. I have read the Titan series, the last book in the "A Time To..." series, then Articles of the Federation and the run-up to Destiny (Resistance, Before Dishonor, GTTS), and at that point I was hooked once again, thus enriching you, David Mack, Christopher Bennett, and Kirsten Beyer beyond the dreams of avarice in the process.

My question regarding this, though, is have Trek lit sales increased commensurate with the quality of writing? With the greenlighting of Titan and Vanguard, one would think so, but I'd like to hear from the authors themselves.

And how do current and recent sales stack up against what I noticed to be an earlier heyday of Trek lit in the late 80s/early 90s, when I noticed new mass-market paperback novels coming out with regularity (i.e. Next Gen's Imzadi, Reunion, Ship Of The Line, the first few Shatner novels, etc)?

I didn't know Peter David's Marvel gig (which I actually thought of as pretty lucrative, being a comic collector myself) was what gave him health insurance. What, didn't New Frontier make him independently wealthy?

Didn't know you wrote for Executioner. What titles, if you'd care to give a shameless plug? I did know about all of the writers who write for Deathlands, and the Outlanders series that follows; I am a fan of Victor Milan, who writes extensively for the Outlanders.

Thanks, guys, for participating thus far...here's hoping we hear from other authors as well, and hoping KRAD expands further on some of the stuff above.

 

[David Mack]

^ FYI, neither Pocket nor its authors or editors will publicly discuss sales figures for the books.

 

[TGTheodore]

^ FYI, neither Pocket nor its authors or editors will publicly discuss sales figures for the books.

But when it comes to the Yankees or the Mets ...

 

[Snaploud]

The first rule of Trek money is: you do not talk about trek money...

The second rule of Trek money is: you DO NOT talk about trek money...

Seriously, here are some questions that might be of interest to the thread-starter:

Do Trek writers receive royalties based upon net or gross? If net, what are the specified list of deductions?

Are your royalty calculations based upon "suggested retail list price" or "wholesale price" (or something else entirely)?

Is the royalty rate fixed, or is there an escalating or decreasing royalty rate that goes into effect after a certain number of copies sold? Does your contract specify a difference in royalty-rate depending upon whether the book is in hard-cover, trade-paperback, or mass-market paperback?

What percentage of the sales go into the category of "reserves against returns" (royalty fees temporarily held at bay until final returns are processed)?

Generally, how much lower are your royalty rates compared to non-tie-in fiction?

 

[SicOne]

Hmm. Good questions, Snaploud. The retail price of books has gone up astronomically since the aforementioned late 80s/early 90s Trek books that began to crop up as Next Gen became more popular.

And one would certainly think that the more copies that sell, the greater the escalation of royalties, though I am not naive enough to think that the publishing business really works with such justice. But that is an excellent question.

Another question comes to mind...when you contract for a book, are you contracting for a single book, or for x-number of books a la a trilogy or series, such as Titan or Vanguard? I don't know for certain, but it would seem obvious David Mack's contract for Destiny covered a presentation of all three books.

Oh, and since David's previous publication in the Mirror Universe trade paperback will be expanded and released individually, how does that affect royalties?

 

[SicOne]

Is there a good reason why Pocket does not give sales figures? Not that the vast overwhelming majority of Trek readers really care, but I'd be interested in seeing how recent books did as compared to older releases, just to gauge how we're doin' these days.

 

[Christopher]

Another question comes to mind...when you contract for a book, are you contracting for a single book, or for x-number of books a la a trilogy or series, such as Titan or Vanguard? I don't know for certain, but it would seem obvious David Mack's contract for Destiny covered a presentation of all three books.

Usually it's for one book at a time, but there were two cases where Marco contracted me for two books. One was for my two Marvel novels, and the other was for Over a Torrent Sea and another book to follow. In both cases, it was at least partly because I'd delivered one proposal and Marco then asked me to do something else first, so rather than scuttle the initial project, he just signed me up for two things. Although in the latter case, plans have shifted and the second book in my contract is now something different from what it was going to be.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

About sales figures. You don't give those out as they can be a form of adverstising, and advertising can be both positive and negative.

Depending on how an item is marketed, the purchaser may feel as if he is a member of an exclusive club (limited editions), or part of a wide community (mass market). When you buy into something, you have certain expectations of it, and certain beliefs about how it is perceived in the market place, which may be right or wrong.

The company selling to you will not want to shatter your illusions. I'm sure that Star Trek fans believe that they are part of a wide community, and that everyone shares in their likes and dislikes. However, marketing figures and projections are far more clinical, based on expected market share and projected sales figures. The last thing a company needs is overproduction.

I had a cold shower of a wake up call once. I review DVDs for a website and one of the companies started sending me their projected sales figures along with their PR material. Now I know that the DVDs they sell are a niche market, but I also know from reviewing them and from the online community, that their product is popular and of high quality.

Imagine my shock when I saw projected sales figures for their discs of around 100-250 a unit!

Can you imagine the fan response? "This DVD is so good that as many as 200 people will buy it." Even though the company does make a profit on numbers like that, it doesn't look good on paper, and it can prove detrimental to sales.

You may think that you're sharing your love for Trek with millions of fans. Imagine how much of a disappointment it would be to learn that only 25000 other people liked your favourite Trek novel of all time.

That's one reason. The real reason is money of course. Once you give out sales figures, it becomes all that much harder to channel your profits to the Bahamas.

 

[KRAD]

SicOne, I'm on the way out the door, so I'll answer your question later, but quickly....

Do Trek writers receive royalties based upon net or gross? If net, what are the specified list of deductions?

Not applicable. We don't get a percentage of the profits, we get a percentage of the listed cover price of each book actually sold.

Are your royalty calculations based upon "suggested retail list price" or "wholesale price" (or something else entirely)?

The former. Regardless of what the bookstore sells it for, we get 3% of the $7.99 that's listed on the cover.

Is the royalty rate fixed, or is there an escalating or decreasing royalty rate that goes into effect after a certain number of copies sold? Does your contract specify a difference in royalty-rate depending upon whether the book is in hard-cover, trade-paperback, or mass-market paperback?

In fiction for which the author keeps the copyright, that escalation is often in effect, and sometimes it is in tie-ins, but not as commonly. And sometimes the rate varies depending on format, yes.

What percentage of the sales go into the category of "reserves against returns" (royalty fees temporarily held at bay until final returns are processed)?

Depends.

Generally, how much lower are your royalty rates compared to non-tie-in fiction?

For one's own work, the royalty rate is usually 6-8%. For tie-in work, it's generally 3% or less (or none, in some cases), because the licensor also gets their cut, which usually comes out of the author's cut.

 

[Nathan]

Just by reading the posts it looks like the Trek authors generally need a second job due to the amount of profit they received from the book sales. I know practically zilch about the author idea to published book process. I always thought the Trek Authors (especially the ones with multiple Trek books published) would be living like Kings (well, maybe not Kings, but living comfortably). I thought that would be case for most genre, meaning being an author of some fiction books that you are probably making a decent living.

Sidenote, authors must loathe used bookstores, as for example, myself, i by the bulk of Trek books used (usually they show up in my local used bookstore in a couple of months after publication date), so the books i buy at half price, nothing goes to the author....that stinks.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Just by reading the posts it looks like the Trek authors generally need a second job due to the amount of profit they received from the book sales. I know practically zilch about the author idea to published book process. I always thought the Trek Authors (especially the ones with multiple Trek books published) would be living like Kings (well, maybe not Kings, but living comfortably). I thought that would be case for most genre, meaning being an author of some fiction books that you are probably making a decent living.

Sidenote, authors must loathe used bookstores, as for example, myself, i by the bulk of Trek books used (usually they show up in my local used bookstore in a couple of months after publication date), so the books i buy at half price, nothing goes to the author....that stinks.

Almost as much as authors hate libraries...

I'm sure authors write to be read first and foremost (although not deliberately to the detriment of their wallets).

 

[Greg Cox]

Like everyone else, I'm not going to discuss how much I get paid per book. That's between me, my agent, and Pocket Books. But I will suggest that you NEVER want to count on royalties, because there might not any. Royalty money is like a free dessert; it's a pleasant surprise when it turns up once and while, but it's nothing you want to plan your budget around. Most of the time there aren't any royalties, at least not in my experience. I live on my advances, plus whatever freelance editing and copywriting work I can scrounge up.

 

[Christopher]

Sidenote, authors must loathe used bookstores, as for example, myself, i by the bulk of Trek books used (usually they show up in my local used bookstore in a couple of months after publication date), so the books i buy at half price, nothing goes to the author....that stinks.

Not at all. Sure, it would be nice to get the extra money, but as long as more people are reading our books, that's a good thing. Besides, used book stores can be the only way our older works can stay in print, and if people discover us through our old books that they buy used, it might make them interested in buying our newer stuff.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Almost as much as authors hate libraries...

I'm sure authors write to be read first and foremost (although not deliberately to the detriment of their wallets).

Of course in a country with Public Lending Rights, there is a teensy fee when someone borrows your book out of the library, if you're signed up to it...

 

[JB2005]

Did anyone else see the article in the papers today (in britain at least, don't know about in the states) about "books bound while-u-wait" does anyone know how (if at all) this will affect authors royalties?

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article6157474.ece