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Haven't I paid my debt to society?

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Richard

Commander
Red Shirt
Just four hours ago I had an encounter that had me so furious I passed out.

When I was twenty-two, in 1983, I taught my first and final year of high school in a backwater town in Mississippi. I was a terrible geek then - a typical Star Trek fan - had rarely dated and was awkward; in hindsight, extremely susceptible to the one student who for some reason became infatuated with me to the point of obsession. I justified the relationship that happened on the basis of her maturity in other ways -- or, to be a touch more specific, that there was not much innocence in her to corrupt. She had grown up dirt-poor and done a lot of suffering. However, I soon realized the truly erratic and disturbed nature of the girl and the potential for me to get into trouble. I ended the relationship, suggesting that we could try again when she graduated in a couple years, and my life became calm for a while. But soon she began threats and blackmail: and at first I found myself driving her wherever she asked, and then giving her 'loans' which were clearly never going to be repaid, and finally into blatantly scoring her drugs (today I learned of her surprising dedication to her little hobby, which ended only at the turn of the century; it happened in Philadelphia so I presume she found a bundle generous even for that city's famously high standards.) By this stage, I was having terrible diarrhea and panic attacks, and nightmares all night. Yet somehow the year ended, the summer came, and I found myself totally unpestered for a stretch of a few weeks. And on a particularly sweltering and tedium-filled day I had the most sublime epiphany: why not book a flight to some new country - maybe Thailand, or India - and leave this awful life behind me? As I packed my bags, I was so happy that I sang. Unfortunately, things did not work out. I was arrested just a few days before I was about to leave. As it happened, the girl had gotten caught scoring in Chicago and suggested I had caused her fall from grace -- which still makes me laugh bitter laughter, since the reverse is so much true. After a humiliating, mendacious trial, I had six years of the most brutal imprisonment I could possibly have survived and that without the consolation of knowing I had family or friends to one day see again. But I painstakingly put my life together again and did move overseas after all.

So now ... a quarter century later, halfway across the world ... I encounter someone I presume is a family member of hers in a restaurant. She proceeds to verbally attack me in front of my loved ones. I make no response to avoid conflict - and also so that I can more convincingly say afterwards that she was just a nutcase, or mistaken, or both - and she just uses that as an excuse to wildly escalate her unfounded accusations. Well ... haven't I paid my debt to society? If not, why was I released in the first place? And if so, shouldn't I be allowed to make amends and live out my life?
 
I'm sorry but you don't sound very remorseful despite being banged up for 6 years for dealing drugs.
 
Given the odds of meeting a member of her family in a totally different country, you're fairly safe from it happening again. Or are you saying they followed you deliberately to your new residence?
 
Well ... haven't I paid my debt to society? If not, why was I released in the first place? And if so, shouldn't I be allowed to make amends and live out my life?

You have, that is why you are not in jail anymore. That has no bearing on personal grudges though which are not voided because you did jail time.
 
Well ... haven't I paid my debt to society? If not, why was I released in the first place? And if so, shouldn't I be allowed to make amends and live out my life?

You have, that is why you are not in jail anymore. That has no bearing on personal grudges though which are not voided because you did jail time.
Yes, so true, on so many levels.

This woman is not "society". Society is pleased with your progress. This woman will never forgive, never forget. She will never even understand. She will never blame her relative, she will blame you, because blaming her relative means there was something "wrong" with her family. So she puts all the blame on you, to protect her little image of perfection.

Look at it another way. Let's say you had a few drinks back then, and this girl you speak of stepped off a sidewalk into your oncoming car, without looking both ways first. You'd been drinking so you get charged.

You "pay your debt to society" but that doesn't change the fact that her family, in 99% of instances, will never forgive you. It's not supposed to be rational, that's why we have society, that's why we have courts and impartial judges and juries of your peers, because if punishment was left up to families of victims then we'd just execute everyone, probably by stoning.
 
Well ... haven't I paid my debt to society? If not, why was I released in the first place? And if so, shouldn't I be allowed to make amends and live out my life?

I think you are suffering from a basic misunderstanding of what has happened to you.

You weren't punished for what you did or did not do to this girl or her family. You were punished for flouting the authority of the state.

The state has made a rule: "don't deal drugs." It decided that you had broken this rule. The penalty for this transgression: six years' imprisonment.

After this, you were forgiven--by the state. If you ask the state if you have paid your debt, they'll say "yes." But state and society are not the same thing.
 
Can we say what we really think without getting a warning? I mean, you asked...

"I fucked an underage girl and committed statutory rape because I'm a Star Trek fan and had never been wanted by a pretty girl." I'm surprised that wouldn't hold up in court.
 
Honestly, seems like you got off light:

-Buying/distributing drugs, including giving them to a minor. Didn't mention the type, but I'm assuming stuff a bit harder than pot, given the jail time. Early 80's, so what? Coke?

-Mentioned to the girl that she should wait until she graduated high school "in a couple more years", meaning she was what, a Sophomore? Which puts her at about 15, maybe 16. Depending on how far things went, there's some child molestation/statutory rape in there. Are you required to be registered as a sex offender? Those laws are pretty strict, and stick with people far longer than committing other crimes. Oddly, you've a harder time living in peace as a former sex offender than you do as a murderer, as unfair as that may be.

-And then there's that whole 'broken trust' and abuse of authority thing as a teacher taking advantage of a student.

6 years for that isn't all that bad, all things considered. Reading the post, seems pretty clear that you knew it was wrong, even at the time. That's why you paid the blackmail money, or scored her the drugs in the first place.

As for the real question, it's been answered. You did the time required of you, but "law" and "society" are different. You're legally off the hook now, but you can't expect for it to have been forgotten, especially by relatives of the girl. That she was troubled/messed up beforehand should have been an obvious reason to stay away/NOT break the law, rather than the excuse you used to justify it...
 
Can we say what we really think without getting a warning? I mean, you asked...

"I fucked an underage girl and committed statutory rape because I'm a Star Trek fan and had never been wanted by a pretty girl." I'm surprised that wouldn't hold up in court.

I was going to say something....but it would most definitely get me a warning. So I'll just agree with what's quoted above.

But, really.....please tell me this is a joke posting? Please?
 
Well to be honest the tone of your post doesn't indicate you learned much from the experience. You present yourself as a completely passive victim of circumstance. You claim the relationship just happened rather than something you pursued. You say you went to jail because she claimed you corrupted her. That's not a charge. You did something that was proven in a court of law. You don't even mention what this woman's unfounded accusations were. In fact the whole last paragraph sounds a tad fishy.
 
Legally, yes you paid your debt according the conditions of your trial and sentence. However morally, and considering you were in a position of trust and responsibility you are responsible for what happened and you should realize that what you did was wrong. Did you make her life worse, perhaps. Could you of done something to improve it, perhaps. But the one thing that you did is the one you shouldn't have.
 
While this girl sounds entirely self destructive, you enabled that behaviour and got yourself in a relationship that you really shouldn't have been in by any stretch of the imagination. It was unprofessional, illegal and foolish. The family member has every right to get angry at you, regardless of the time you served, and however misplaced their anger may be. You were supposed to be the adult in that situation and you blew it.

Oh and Thailand? Well done, Gary Glitter.
 
So the consensus is...I wonder if Richard will ever be back. I wouldn't if I admitted such a thing. I hope he doesn't.
 
I did a lot of really stupid, self-destructive, amoral things when I was 22.

In 1983, in a backwater town in Mississippi, I seriously doubt he was given proper training or counseling or mentoring when he walked into this job, and I dare say the 50 year old principal probably banged his share of students during the 1950's.

I don't see anywhere in the OP where he is saying he shouldn't have gone to jail. So let's just all pile on and condemn the guy. Yeah, he could come across as a bit more remorseful. So could we all.
 
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