World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Each time he took the test he was trying a different solution to "win"... It wasn't a test of character to him but a simple matter of solving the problem.

Yes, but if the Academy defined it as "a test of character" what would be their reasoning behind permitting him to take it three times?

Maybe they figured that any cadet who cared enough about their performance on the test to want to take it more than once, should have the chance to do so. It shows effort, doesn't it? A desire to *improve* one's character?

 

[Data Holmes]

Each time he took the test he was trying a different solution to "win"... It wasn't a test of character to him but a simple matter of solving the problem.

Yes, but if the Academy defined it as "a test of character" what would be their reasoning behind permitting him to take it three times?

Maybe they figured that any cadet who cared enough about their performance on the test to want to take it more than once, should have the chance to do so. It shows effort, doesn't it? A desire to *improve* one's character?

One, where has it ever been said that the KMT was a one time test?
Two, perhaps they are given three shots at the test (think of it as the professors observing each time to use the cumulative data to make a finding) and Kirk faced with his last shot at "the thing" went all for it and reprogrammed the damn thing because he didn't agree with it. In that sense the KMT could be seen as the starfleet equivalent of the "lieutenants exam" of the sailing navies of the Napoleonic era. Just a thought.

 

[urbandk]

it's stated in the film that it's highly unusual for kirk to retake the exam. the third time he just waltzes in and shows complete contempt for KM. He doesn't approve of the concept of a no win scenario.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Spock's comments in TWOK didn't seem to indicate anything unusual about taking it more than once, and Saavik gave the impression that she was determined to take it again.

And in the novel that dealt with this, Best Destiny, I think, wasn't Robert April the Academy commandant that gave Kirk that commendation for original thinking for his ultimate solution to the KMT?

 

[Jimmy_C]

Each time he took the test he was trying a different solution to "win"... It wasn't a test of character to him but a simple matter of solving the problem.

Yes, but if the Academy defined it as "a test of character" what would be their reasoning behind permitting him to take it three times?

You know, even on tests limited to facts and textual material, I can't remember many situations in my education where I was allowed three shots at passing an important test.

The writer didn't think that one through, presumably because they never expected it to be focused on and to become the subject of so much lore and so much speculation over decades. Like so much of Trek, the fans have concentrated on it a great deal more than the creators did.

Note: I haven't seen the movie or read too many spoilers.

I think the point behind the KM is that the solution to the test isn't so important as the Cadet's REACTION to the test. That is the test of their character. How do they face death? Do they run away? Do they hesitate? Do they become emotional and make things worse? In the end, the KM test is actually taken after the simulator, not before it. So allowing Kirk in the simulator room again is part of the test.

Kirk's reaction was to not accept the idea of a no-win scenario. He will keep trying to find a way out of even the worst predicaments. That's why he is the best captain. That's why he was given a commendation rather than a penalty for cheating. And that's why he was permitted to take it again. The faculty wanted to see how Kirk would ultimately respond.

So I think the writers did think the test through.

 

[EJA]

Is the Enterprise called a Constitution-class ship in the film?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

it's stated in the film that it's highly unusual for kirk to retake the exam. the third time he just waltzes in and shows complete contempt for KM. He doesn't approve of the concept of a no win scenario.

Well, he's got issues - his father died in a no-win scenario.

 

[Basil]

Each time he took the test he was trying a different solution to "win"... It wasn't a test of character to him but a simple matter of solving the problem.

Yes, but if the Academy defined it as "a test of character" what would be their reasoning behind permitting him to take it three times?

You know, even on tests limited to facts and textual material, I can't remember many situations in my education where I was allowed three shots at passing an important test.

The writer didn't think that one through, presumably because they never expected it to be focused on and to become the subject of so much lore and so much speculation over decades. Like so much of Trek, the fans have concentrated on it a great deal more than the creators did.

Or maybe he or she just thought about it more than you did. The Bar exam is a test that can be taken multiple times, for instance. The average times taken in my state is twice, but I know an attorney who took it three times before passing. Heck, even a driving test qualifies.

Also, a test of character wouldn't be about facts and textual material, any more than would be one of solving of an ethical problem, as in the conclusion of The Dark Knight. If so, the very test could be how one accepts defeat -- in that respect, the cadet could take it any number of times.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Or maybe he or she just thought about it more than you did. The Bar exam is a test that can be taken multiple times, for instance.

I thought of the bar exam. It's not defined as a "test of character" but as one of knowledge - which is really kind of obvious.

Also, a test of character wouldn't be about facts and textual material

Of course it wouldn't - that was part of my point.

The test served an important thematic purpose in TWOK, but the details of it were no more than a throwaway gag, clearly not thought through beyond that level.

 

[drasche]

I've watched the movie tonight at Brussels during the BIFFF and I found it quite enjoyable. If this is what is awaiting us in the future, I'm glad.

However:
* the villains were absolutely dull, bland, transparent. I don't think it's Bana's fault, rather the writers didn't give much depth to the character and his crew. A crying shame. This is in my opinion the weakest point of the movie.
* Scotty was a joke. What was the point of him being in this movie? I loved the original Scott but this doesn't compare. Not used at all and not much screen time.
* Me and my friends got a "The Enterprise is taken over by cadets" feeling. Of course, this doesn't make justice. Half the characters were assigned by Starfleet. We have McCoy becoming CMO because of a casualty, Kirk worked his way to the top but that had to be expected from him, and Uhura stole the communications officer job thanks to her outstanding skills. That said, it didn't bother me much.

The pros:
* Urban, Quinto and Pine did an excellent job. I found Urban to be an outstanding McCoy. Pine did well with a Kirk that really changed from the hotshot from the beginning to the captain he was at the end of the movie, reminiscing of the original Kirk in the series. Quinto was also very good, I have nothing bad to say about his performance, but I think Urban and Pine did better.
* Tons of humor. Plus it was mixed with tons of references to the original series and I think the newcomers will like it even if they don't get those references. I loved how Chekov was denied access because he couldn't pronounce his "V" correctly
* Overal, I think the movie had a very strong Trek vibe, while very easy to watch for a newcomer. Well, I hope, I can't say for certain of course.

And as a bonus, my ticket, 5 euros

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

How much are five euros worth in American dollars? I want to find out if I'm being dicked.

 

[Captain X]

Well, a Euro is worth more than a dollar...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

How much are five euros worth in American dollars?

5 euros = about $6.59

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Oh. Well I guess he's paying about the same as a matinee in the United States.

 

[Sky]

I've watched the movie tonight at Brussels during the BIFFF and I found it quite enjoyable. If this is what is awaiting us in the future, I'm glad.

I was there too. I am still conflicted about the movie, although some things I enjoyed immensely. I still need to think about it a bit.. I'm reeling because of what happened to Vulcan & Amanda!

* Scotty was a joke. What was the point of him being in this movie? I loved the original Scott but this doesn't compare. Not used at all and not much screen time.

Have to agree here.

* Me and my friends got a "The Enterprise is taken over by cadets" feeling.

Yeah, there was a bit of that.

Other cons I had:

* The Spock / Uhura thing. Does not work for me. Is not believable for me. A shame, since otherwise Spock was quite good. Quinto had excellent small touches - straightening his uniform, moving in a certain way.

* The space battles made it seem like the Enterprise was just a small, nifty fighter. Previously, the battles maybe were too two-dimensional, but the Enterprise had the feel of a ship.

* Vulcan and Amanda. Seriously, ouch!

* The small "cute" alien Scotty had with him. I hope they kill him off before the next movie. We don't need any cutesy funny little critters on the Enterprise, and if we do, they better be tribbles.

* Ben Cross was kind of wooden.

The pros:
* Urban, Quinto and Pine did an excellent job. I found Urban to be an outstanding McCoy. Pine did well with a Kirk that really changed from the hotshot from the beginning to the captain he was at the end of the movie, reminiscing of the original Kirk in the series. Quinto was also very good, I have nothing bad to say about his performance, but I think Urban and Pine did better.

Urban was amazing! His McCoy I could believe in. I also liked Quinto quite a lot. Pine was okay.

And of course the Urban & Cho singing performance before the film was wonderful too.

* Tons of humor. Plus it was mixed with tons of references to the original series and I think the newcomers will like it even if they don't get those references. I loved how Chekov was denied access because he couldn't pronounce his "V" correctly

I could've done without some of the humor. The puffy hands for example.

But as I said, I still need to think about it a bit.. and I have to admit I was pretty choked up when the end of the film came and Nimoy's "Space.. the final frontier" was heard.. Man oh man, I never thought I'd hear that again in a new film.

 

[urbandk]

* The small "cute" alien Scotty had with him. I hope they kill him off before the next movie. We don't need any cutesy funny little critters on the Enterprise, and if we do, they better be tribbles.

I like the alien! He was a highlight for me. At least they were getting out of the box with his costume and makeup. I counted exactly zero forehead aliens in the new film, and that was a welcome subtraction.

 

[urbandk]

Also, in fairness to Pegg, he didn't make his appearance until late in the film, and he didn't have much time to do much with the character. I think he acquitted himself just fine, and with a more convincing accent than Doohan's.

 

[Franklin]

OK, I'll say this, then run and hide in case people want to throw things. But I'm dead serious.

So, Nimoy does the, "Space, the final frontier..." thing at the end of the movie. I know Shatner doesn't "do cameos," but how KEWL would it have been if the movie ended with HIM saying those words. No warning. No appearance by him anywhere else in the film. Just those words.
That could've been a moment. Seriously.

 

[M'Sharak]

OK, I'll say this, then run and hide in case people want to throw things. But I'm dead serious.

So, Nimoy does the, "Space, the final frontier..." thing at the end of the movie. I know Shatner doesn't "do cameos," but how KEWL would it have been if the movie ended with HIM saying those words. No warning. No appearance by him anywhere else in the film. Just those words.
That could've been a moment. Seriously.

Maybe it'll be a stealth DVD extra.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also, in fairness to Pegg, he didn't make his appearance until late in the film, and he didn't have much time to do much with the character. I think he acquitted himself just fine, and with a more convincing accent than Doohan's.

Interesting...I was just listening to Craig Ferguson's new comedy album (A Wee Bit O' Revolution) and he did a bit about Doohan's accent and how bad he thought it sounded.

(hmm, there's a thought: Craig Ferguson as Scotty! )