How is downloading not stealing?

[CommodoreKong]

I don't pirate many things, but there are a few things I do pirate and I don't feel bad about it at all. I don't see how anyone could think the type of piracy I do is wrong, but I'm sure I'll be surprised.

I will pirate something that's out of print and isn't available for download legally.This is typically videogames, if the game is available on Steam, GoG or eBay for a reasonable price for an old game I'll buy it. If not I don't feel bad at all about pirating it.

Another thing is videogame soundtracks that aren't available legally in the US. Sometimes these are available on eBay but from what I've read the ones that show up on eBay are often bootlegs. If I'm going to get it illegally I would rather not pay for it.

The final thing I'm willing to pirate is something I'm going to buy. I'll be pirating the new episode of Doctor Who because I'm not waiting for Sci-Fi to air it and I'll be buying it on DVDs when it comes out (I already own series 1-4 on DVD and I love Doctor Who enough to want a high quality version with bonus features).

Exactly, like the aforementioned teens who pirate gospel music over file sharing. It seriously blows my mind! I've met some of these kids, and they have money, yet they download every type of gospel and Christian contemporary music there is.

J.

I have a hardcore Christan friend who pirates movies and music despite the fact that he can afford to buy it. I once asked him if he remembered the part of the Bible that said "Thou shall not steal" and the best response he could come up with was telling me to shut up.

 

[Star Wolf]

I don't pirate many things, but there are a few things I do pirate and I don't feel bad about it at all. I don't see how anyone could think the type of piracy I do is wrong, but I'm sure I'll be surprised.

I will pirate something that's out of print and isn't available for download legally.This is typically videogames, if the game is available on Steam, GoG or eBay for a reasonable price for an old game I'll buy it. If not I don't feel bad at all about pirating it.

Another thing is videogame soundtracks that aren't available legally in the US. Sometimes these are available on eBay but from what I've read the ones that show up on eBay are often bootlegs. If I'm going to get it illegally I would rather not pay for it.

The final thing I'm willing to pirate is something I'm going to buy. I'll be pirating the new episode of Doctor Who because I'm not waiting for Sci-Fi to air it and I'll be buying it on DVDs when it comes out (I already own series 1-4 on DVD and I love Doctor Who enough to want a high quality version with bonus features).

Exactly, like the aforementioned teens who pirate gospel music over file sharing. It seriously blows my mind! I've met some of these kids, and they have money, yet they download every type of gospel and Christian contemporary music there is.

J.

I have a hardcore Christan friend who pirates movies and music despite the fact that he can afford to buy it. I once asked him if he remembered the part of the Bible that said "Thou shall not steal" and the best response he could come up with was telling me to shut up.

My cousin worked for Motown's music publishing wing after their move to LA. This was the period when musicians/songwriters stopped getting paid by tours and sheet music sales and album sales were king. Today most church musicians I know first check the net for free lyric and chords or tabs on the net. At first you would just find the chords without the lyrics but I guess he industry gave up because all popular songs are easy to find now. I've rarely heard of anyone buying sheet music. I think the church license pays for the music and the showing of lyrics on screen however.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I really don't think ALL downloading is stealing. I think if you download something you would otherwise purchase but don't because you downloaded it, that's stealing. If it's replacing what would have been an actual purchase, in other words, it's stealing.

But if you download, say, TV episodes you plan on purchasing the DVD sets for when then come out, I hardly think that's stealing.

For example, I download LOST every week. I have purchased all 4 season sets that have come out so far, and a few books on the series. I think it's about a 100% certainty that I'll be purchasing season 5 when it comes out a year or so (or longer) from now, and season 6 after that. But in the meantime, I want the episodes hanging around so that I can refer to them or re-watch them...because LOST is just that kind of a show. And I don't want them clogging up my TiVo. So I download them to my computer as avi files and burn about 10 of them at a time to a cheap DVD so I have them around until the DVD release.

I did the same thing with Battlestar Galactica. But yet, (not so) incredibly I have purchased every SINGLE episode of Battlestar Galactica that has hit the shelves as a commercial release. In fact, I have purchased TWO copies of the mini-series, and the collector's edition of the original series.

So forgive me for not feeling all remorseful at 'stealing' BSG by downloading it.

I also download live shows (bootlegs) of a couple of bands I like which have come out and said they don't mind fans doing it. So, for example, I am a fan of the Canadian band The Tragically Hip. But guess what? I live in Georgia....and they play pretty much only Canada and the border states to Canada. So even though this is one of my favorite bands EVER, the likelihood if my ever seeing/hearing them live is approaching zero. So I've downloaded a few shows. NOT their CDs - I've purchased all of those fair and square - in fact, I purchased Yer Favorites twice - once off of American iTunes to try them out when I was first starting to listen to them...and then a second copy as a 'hard' copy of the big set they put out. I am more than happy to pay for each and every CD. But I can't afford to go to Canada to attend a live show. And I think the (Canadian) OP in this thread will agree that seeing this band live (or as close as I can get down here in the South) is part of the experience.

Occasionally, I download an episode or two of a show (usually a British show) to try it out - I did this with the British version of Life on Mars, since I liked the American version. Didn't care for the British version....but if I had, I'd have purchased the DVD set when it came out. And I STILL plan on purchasing the American version of this show. But would I have purchased the British version sight unseen, not having tried it out? No. So, in this case, the net loss to the studio was a big fat zero. And it could have been a gain had I liked the British verision of the show and decided to purchase it.

And finally, I download one show which has not come out with any DVD sets yet, even though the show is in it's 6th season on American TV. And that show is Cold Case. Now, anyone who watches this show can easily guess why it's not been released on DVD. Two words: music rights. If/when this show ever comes out on DVD, I will snap it right up. I love this show and would love to have DVD sets of it. But in the case of this show, I'd actually keep my downloaded .avi files as well, because chances are, whatever comes out on DVD will have a completely different musical score. Because no way are they gonna be able to get music rights for the episodes as originally scored. All that period music? No way. Jeez...they had one episode that was entirely scored with 1980's Bruce Springsteen tracks. THAT isn't gonna stay intact if this show ever comes out on DVD. But I'll buy the sets anyway, just because I love the show and want to have the most pristine copies available.

The thing is, I LIKE DVD sets. And I have a ton of them. I've spent alot of money on DVD sets, in fact.

I don't use the ability to download as a way of replacing the sets. I use the ability to download as a stopgap until I can purchase the sets. Or to try out something new that I have no ability to try out on American TV, and so would otherwise have to buy sight-unseen (which is not gonna happen with a British TV show - WAY too expensive). But always with the intention of buying it if I end up liking it.

 

[chrisspringob]

This is the kind of thing that gets me. We also have several tapes of things that my parents recorded off of TV for me when I was a kid. If I take those tapes and transfer the contents onto my computer or burn a DVD, am I suddenly running afoul of the law?

Even having tapes of things you recorded off TV when you were a kid is illegal. It's illegal to tape something off TV and then archive it, rather than just watch it once and be done with it. I wonder if the people who are so adamantly against all illegal TV downloads ever watched something they taped off TV multiple times. Why is that OK, while downloads aren't? Both are illegal, AFAIK.

Unless I am mistaken, I don't think the law is written that way. AFAIK, taping and archiving material that was broadcast on the public air waves is not illegal. Using this material for rebroadcast, public or private showings for profit, or sale of the material is. Unlimited personal use shouldn't run afoul of the law.

OK, you might be right. But I swear I've read that claim repeatedly, that it's technically illegal if you tape it and watch it many times. I thought that's what the whole phrase "timeshifting" was about....that, by taping it when you're not home, and then watching it later once, you're doing exactly the same thing you'd be doing if you didn't have a VCR (watching the show once), but just doing it in a "timeshifted" way from when you otherwise would have.

If you're taping it and watching it multiple times, however, then you're doing something fundamentally different from what you'd be able to do without the VCR.

 

[Kelso]

I agree with PKTrekGirl.


I also agree with this...

The final thing I'm willing to pirate is something I'm going to buy. I'll be pirating the new episode of Doctor Who because I'm not waiting for Sci-Fi to air it and I'll be buying it on DVDs when it comes out (I already own series 1-4 on DVD and I love Doctor Who enough to want a high quality version with bonus features).

 

[Kelthaz]

There's plenty of reasons I pirate.

1. I believe the item I want is overpriced.

I wanted to watch every single Bond film last year, but I didn't feel like spending over $200 on a bunch of films I'm not sure I'd like. I pirated all of them and bought 2-3 of the best ones. I still need to pick up Goldfinger though.

Oblivion with guns (aka. Fallout 3) for $69.99? You've got to be kidding me. I picked up the GOY Oblivion for $20 and pirated Fallout 3.

Microsoft products definitely fall under this.

2. The pirated version is superior to the legal version.

PSP games run better off the memory stick than off the UMD. I'm not going to go out, buy a PSP game, toss the game in the garbage outside the store, and then download the game. That's ridiculous.

Emulation is much better than the Virtual Console. Better graphics, save states, bigger hard drive (512MB is almost insulting), hacks (Kaizo Mario ftw!), etc. I'm also not going to pay for a VC version of a game I already bought at full price a decade or two ago.

3. Laziness

It's a rainy Sunday afternoon and I feel like watching a movie or playing a new DS game. I'm not going out to the store.

4. I just want to play with the item. It isn't worth it to buy it for me.

Ooh, Spore looks interesting. I'm sure I'd hate it, but I'm curious what all the hype is about.

*2 hours and a download later*

LOL, horrible game. Pretty neat concept though.

5. Ruined Discs/game cartridges.

Gee, I would love to play WarCraft III again. I'm going to install it with my legally bought CDs. Oh, look at that, the CD is too damaged to be read. Time to go torrent it.

God, I loved my legal copy of Goldeneye 64, but all my N64 controllers have dead controller sticks. I love you N64 emulation.


That's why I pirate. Piracy is convenient, cheaper, and usually superior to the legal versions.

 

[Kelso]

There's plenty of reasons I pirate.

1. I believe the item I want is overpriced.

I wanted to watch every single Bond film last year, but I didn't feel like spending over $200 on a bunch of films I'm not sure I'd like. I pirated all of them and bought 2-3 of the best ones. I still need to pick up Goldfinger though.

Someone should invent a service that would allow you to watch a film once and then return it... preferably for a flat-rate monthly payment.

 

[T'Baio]

I priate because I believe the item I want is overpriced.

*shakes head with face in hands*

 

[Kelthaz]

There's plenty of reasons I pirate.

1. I believe the item I want is overpriced.

I wanted to watch every single Bond film last year, but I didn't feel like spending over $200 on a bunch of films I'm not sure I'd like. I pirated all of them and bought 2-3 of the best ones. I still need to pick up Goldfinger though.

Someone should invent a service that would allow you to watch a film once and then return it... preferably for a flat-rate monthly payment.

I'm not American. Netflix doesn't exist in Canada and I'm not aware of any other simliar service.

 

[Amaris]

I have a hardcore Christan friend who pirates movies and music despite the fact that he can afford to buy it. I once asked him if he remembered the part of the Bible that said "Thou shall not steal" and the best response he could come up with was telling me to shut up.

Wow. Like I said, I can't wrap my mind around how this can be acceptable to these teens.

There's plenty of reasons I pirate.

1. I believe the item I want is overpriced.

I wanted to watch every single Bond film last year, but I didn't feel like spending over $200 on a bunch of films I'm not sure I'd like. I pirated all of them and bought 2-3 of the best ones. I still need to pick up Goldfinger though.

Oblivion with guns (aka. Fallout 3) for $69.99? You've got to be kidding me. I picked up the GOY Oblivion for $20 and pirated Fallout 3.

Microsoft products definitely fall under this.

Wait until the price falls. I think Windows Vista was insanely priced, so I waited until there were special offers and discounts. Paint Shop Pro X2 is a great app, but when it premiered was $100. Too rich for my hobbyist blood, so I waited until they offered a $69 download version. Now it's $59, which is even better. Most games and apps will fall in price. If you wait a year, they usually fall 30% or more.

2. The pirated version is superior to the legal version.

PSP games run better off the memory stick than off the UMD. I'm not going to go out, buy a PSP game, toss the game in the garbage outside the store, and then download the game. That's ridiculous.

Emulation is much better than the Virtual Console. Better graphics, save states, bigger hard drive (512MB is almost insulting), hacks (Kaizo Mario ftw!), etc. I'm also not going to pay for a VC version of a game I already bought at full price a decade or two ago.

I don't see a problem with just converting these files to an easier, more portable format instead of downloading it without purchasing it.

3. Laziness

It's a rainy Sunday afternoon and I feel like watching a movie or playing a new DS game. I'm not going out to the store.

Well, now that's just ridiculous.

4. I just want to play with the item. It isn't worth it to buy it for me.

Ooh, Spore looks interesting. I'm sure I'd hate it, but I'm curious what all the hype is about.

*2 hours and a download later*

LOL, horrible game. Pretty neat concept though.

This is where shareware and demos need to make a real comeback.

5. Ruined Discs/game cartridges.

Gee, I would love to play WarCraft III again. I'm going to install it with my legally bought CDs. Oh, look at that, the CD is too damaged to be read. Time to go torrent it.

God, I loved my legal copy of Goldeneye 64, but all my N64 controllers have dead controller sticks. I love you N64 emulation.


That's why I pirate. Piracy is convenient, cheaper, and usually superior to the legal versions.

Well, stealing a television's way more convenient, cheaper and superior to actually paying for one, but I'm not going to do it. It's wrong, ethically and morally to steal. Downloading something you have not purchased or have no intention of buying is stealing.

J.

 

[DaleC76]

Of course, it's stealing.

But everyone knows it's okay to steal from rich people.

Seriously, this is a debate that I've always found fascinating, because of the complexities involved. I have a few questions, particularly for the anti-downloading crowd.

What about out of print materials? Especially when the publisher/author no longer exists or would never recieve the compensation anyway. Is downloading wrong when the only person you're depriving is some goob on ebay?

 

[Amaris]

Of course, it's stealing.

But everyone knows it's okay to steal from rich people.

Seriously, this is a debate that I've always found fascinating, because of the complexities involved. I have a few questions, particularly for the anti-downloading crowd.

What about out of print materials? Especially when the publisher/author no longer exists or would never recieve the compensation anyway. Is downloading wrong when the only person you're depriving is some goob on ebay?

Yes. If it's not in the public domain, is not permitted by the current owner(s) and is still bought and sold even though out of print, then you are still stealing. Just because it's "some goob on ebay" doesn't make it right for you to steal the work.

J.

 

[Goji]

I have a hardcore Christan friend who pirates movies and music despite the fact that he can afford to buy it. I once asked him if he remembered the part of the Bible that said "Thou shall not steal" and the best response he could come up with was telling me to shut up.

Wow. Like I said, I can't wrap my mind around how this can be acceptable to these teens.

This has nothing to do with downloading, but I once had a "born-again" Christian friend ask me to literally steal soda from the cafeteria (you can drink all you want while you're there, but you can't take any with you) for him, because he was a Christian and I wasn't. So I guess he figured it's not like God could dislike me any more than he already did, or something. Odd fellow.

 

[Kelthaz]

Of course, it's stealing.

But everyone knows it's okay to steal from rich people.

Seriously, this is a debate that I've always found fascinating, because of the complexities involved. I have a few questions, particularly for the anti-downloading crowd.

What about out of print materials? Especially when the publisher/author no longer exists or would never recieve the compensation anyway. Is downloading wrong when the only person you're depriving is some goob on ebay?

Yes. If it's not in the public domain, is not permitted by the current owner(s) and is still bought and sold even though out of print, then you are still stealing. Just because it's "some goob on ebay" doesn't make it right for you to steal the work.

J.

That there is the big distinction between the anti-downloading group and the pro-pirating group.

Legality vs. Morality

I fully admit that my pirating is illegal, but I don't believe it hurts anyone. That makes it fine in my book.

 

[DaleC76]

I think a lot of people who download honestly don't believ they are stealing because they aren't actually taking an object from someone. Others think it's stealing, but it's a weak type of unethical behavior like sneaking candy into a movie, speeding, or littering. Others acknowledge they're breaking the law, but insist it's a stupid or oppresive law that they have a duty to disobey.

What exactly does the law say about downloading copyrighted material? What are the penalties? Are the stories of grandmas and little girls being put in jail after downloading a favorite song true? What do other countries say about the subject?

 

[CommodoreKong]

I have a hardcore Christan friend who pirates movies and music despite the fact that he can afford to buy it. I once asked him if he remembered the part of the Bible that said "Thou shall not steal" and the best response he could come up with was telling me to shut up.

Wow. Like I said, I can't wrap my mind around how this can be acceptable to these teens.

This has nothing to do with downloading, but I once had a "born-again" Christian friend ask me to literally steal soda from the cafeteria (you can drink all you want while you're there, but you can't take any with you) for him, because he was a Christian and I wasn't. So I guess he figured it's not like God could dislike me any more than he already did, or something. Odd fellow.

Yeah last year my same friend was scamming our college. We have Eaglecards, which are sort of like credit cards you can use at the cafeteria, bookstore and vending machines. He somehow figured out that the system didn't work in real time, it actually took a minute or so to remove the money from an account. So he would put $1.25 on his Eaglecard and buy a pop, then quickly bought some snacks before his account was updated.

I guess the software didn't let you have a negative balance on your Eaglecard, because he did this for an entire semester. I believe the school eventually figured it out and made him pay the money back if he wanted a diploma. I'm pretty sure he caused the school revamped the Eaglecard system. This year it takes a $2 credit out of your account when you swipe it at a vending machine.

Funny thing is, even though he showed a bunch of people how to do it, people who as far as I know weren't very religious, I rarely saw anyone do it besides him. I'm not religious at all and I never did it.

 

[Amaris]

This has nothing to do with downloading, but I once had a "born-again" Christian friend ask me to literally steal soda from the cafeteria (you can drink all you want while you're there, but you can't take any with you) for him, because he was a Christian and I wasn't. So I guess he figured it's not like God could dislike me any more than he already did, or something. Odd fellow.

Wow. No words on that one.
Okay, well some words..

That there is the big distinction between the anti-downloading group and the pro-pirating group.

Legality vs. Morality

I fully admit that my pirating is illegal, but I don't believe it hurts anyone. That makes it fine in my book.

It does hurt people. It hurts the people who create, the people who are paid to market and sell, anyone who is involved in the creation of the product is hurt, because that product is being stolen and no compensation given. You are taking something without providing compensation in return. You are stealing something for the sake of stealing. That is morally wrong.

Yeah last year my same friend was scamming our college. We have Eaglecards, which are sort of like credit cards you can use at the cafeteria, bookstore and vending machines. He somehow figured out that the system didn't work in real time, it actually took a minute or so to remove the money from an account. So he would put $1.25 on his Eaglecard and buy a pop, then quickly bought some snacks before his account was updated.

I guess the software didn't let you have a negative balance on your Eaglecard, because he did this for an entire semester. I believe the school eventually figured it out and made him pay the money back if he wanted a diploma. I'm pretty sure he caused the school revamped the Eaglecard system. This year it takes a $2 credit out of your account when you swipe it at a vending machine.

Funny thing is, even though he showed a bunch of people how to do it, people who as far as I know weren't very religious, I rarely saw anyone do it besides him. I'm not religious at all and I never did it.

I'm glad they caught him.

J.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Of course, it's stealing.

But everyone knows it's okay to steal from rich people.

Seriously, this is a debate that I've always found fascinating, because of the complexities involved. I have a few questions, particularly for the anti-downloading crowd.

What about out of print materials? Especially when the publisher/author no longer exists or would never recieve the compensation anyway. Is downloading wrong when the only person you're depriving is some goob on ebay?

Yes. If it's not in the public domain, is not permitted by the current owner(s) and is still bought and sold even though out of print, then you are still stealing. Just because it's "some goob on ebay" doesn't make it right for you to steal the work.

J.

Well, in fairness, the 'goob on ebay' is even more of a thief. Because not only do these 'goobs' not own the rights to the films they are in possession of...but they actually make money off of selling copies of these films they do not own to begin with to all sorts of buyers on ebay. And no - most of these films are not public domain.

So sorry. Not feeling sorry for the thieves on ebay who sell copies of films they don't own the rights to (which is pretty much all of these sellers). These guys are stealing every single time they sell a copy of a film. So, while I'm not in favor of downloading, I am even LESS in favor of supporting the much more hard-core thieves ('goobs') on ebay...who are making a living off of theft. NOT just downloading the occasional OOP film for personal use.

I see this alot in the classic film community. And the thing is that by most reports I've heard, a good chunk of the time the film quality is crap too.

What I really wish would happen would be for the studios (in particular, the studios who have been really slow and crappy about releasing their classic film catalog on DVD - Paramount, I'm talking to YOU!) to release these films on DVD. Then collectors (such as myself) would snatch them up legitimately. The studios would make money, we collectors would have good quality copies of these films, and the theives who sell stolen, subpar merchandise on ebay would be out of business.

Everybody wins.

 

[Amaris]

Of course, it's stealing.

But everyone knows it's okay to steal from rich people.

Seriously, this is a debate that I've always found fascinating, because of the complexities involved. I have a few questions, particularly for the anti-downloading crowd.

What about out of print materials? Especially when the publisher/author no longer exists or would never recieve the compensation anyway. Is downloading wrong when the only person you're depriving is some goob on ebay?

Yes. If it's not in the public domain, is not permitted by the current owner(s) and is still bought and sold even though out of print, then you are still stealing. Just because it's "some goob on ebay" doesn't make it right for you to steal the work.

J.

Well, in fairness, the 'goob on ebay' is even more of a thief. Because not only do these 'goobs' not own the rights to the films they are in possession of...but they actually make money off of selling copies of these films they do not own to begin with to all sorts of buyers on ebay. And no - most of them are not public domain.

So sorry. Not feeling sorry for the thieves on ebay who sell copies of films they don't own the rights to (which is pretty much all of these sellers). These guys are stealing every single time they sell a copy of a film. So, while I'm not in favor of downloading, I am even LESS in favor of supporting the much more hard-core thieves ('goobs') on ebay...who are making a living off of theft. NOT just downloading the occasional OOP film for personal use.

I see this alot in the classic film community. And the thing is that by most reports I've heard, a good chunk of the time the film quality is crap too.

What I really wish would happen would be for the studios (in particular, the studios who have been really slow and crappy about releasing their classic film catalog on DVD - Paramount, I'm talking to YOU!) to release these films on DVD. Then collectors (such as myself) would snatch them up legitimately. The studios would make money, we collectors would have good quality copies of these films, and the theives who sell stolen, subpar merchandise on ebay would be out of business.

Everybody wins.

Oh, I'm not talking about the guy who makes bootlegs, I'm talking about the person who has a legitimate copy and is selling it.

I also agree that there needs to be a revamp of the system so that we can get to these vaulted movies that aren't in circulation. Even a limited number would sell, and the market would have something to work with.

J.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Yes. If it's not in the public domain, is not permitted by the current owner(s) and is still bought and sold even though out of print, then you are still stealing. Just because it's "some goob on ebay" doesn't make it right for you to steal the work.

J.

Well, in fairness, the 'goob on ebay' is even more of a thief. Because not only do these 'goobs' not own the rights to the films they are in possession of...but they actually make money off of selling copies of these films they do not own to begin with to all sorts of buyers on ebay. And no - most of them are not public domain.

So sorry. Not feeling sorry for the thieves on ebay who sell copies of films they don't own the rights to (which is pretty much all of these sellers). These guys are stealing every single time they sell a copy of a film. So, while I'm not in favor of downloading, I am even LESS in favor of supporting the much more hard-core thieves ('goobs') on ebay...who are making a living off of theft. NOT just downloading the occasional OOP film for personal use.

I see this alot in the classic film community. And the thing is that by most reports I've heard, a good chunk of the time the film quality is crap too.

What I really wish would happen would be for the studios (in particular, the studios who have been really slow and crappy about releasing their classic film catalog on DVD - Paramount, I'm talking to YOU!) to release these films on DVD. Then collectors (such as myself) would snatch them up legitimately. The studios would make money, we collectors would have good quality copies of these films, and the theives who sell stolen, subpar merchandise on ebay would be out of business.

Everybody wins.

Oh, I'm not talking about the guy who makes bootlegs, I'm talking about the person who has a legitimate copy and is selling it.

I also agree that there needs to be a revamp of the system so that we can get to these vaulted movies that aren't in circulation. Even a limited number would sell, and the market would have something to work with.

J.

Agreed. If the studios would release the films, it would put a whole bunch of thieves out of business. At least in the classic film community.

Collectors like me would be more than happy to pay for commercially released versions of these films. But when they don't release them, (and a couple of studios are really notorious about ignoring their classic film vault) there are collectors out there who just get tired a waiting. They want to see a particular film, and they wait and wait for years...and finally give up and buy a copy from some 'goob' off ebay for $20. The film quality is crappy, there is no recourse, and they are ultimately disappointed.

But the sad thing is that they would have eagerly paid that same $20 to the studio to get a legitimate copy, if it had been made available.

I don't buy films on ebay - there are very few films I'd be willing to shell out $20 for if I can't be sure the quality is good.

But I know people who do purchase such films from time to time. And I know one guy in the classic film community who quite literally lives off of pirating. That is his entire 'job'. Shoot - I'd be willing to bet he doesn't even pay taxes. So he is robbing the studios, the government, AND his customers. A triple header of thievery!

I wouldn't buy anything from him in a million years as it torks me no end that this guy openly sells copies of films he doesn't own for $20 per film to desperate collectors. But I know people who have bought from him. He has about 60,000 movies, from what I understand. And so if a collector is really desperate to get a copy of a particular film, this guy probably has it...and will sell it to them for a premium. Never mind the fact that he did NOTHING to create the thing to begin with and is little more than a parasite.

So you see, nothing would make me happier than for the studios to open their frakkin' valuts and put this guy and others like him right out of business.