Countdown/Novels

[phrog]

So I've looked and searched and still can't find a definitive thread or discussion on the position that authors and Pocket are taking in regards to the Countdown comics. Happens? Doesn't? Sucks? Great? Eventually the novels will get to that time period, I'd hope.

I know it's a long way off from where we are now chronologically, but reading Countdown... it falls far short of the quality standard set up by the novels to date and I have a really hard time reconciling in my mind that the characters as I see them in Destiny end up where they are in Countdown in the time allotted.

Yet, this is the only direct lead-in (and "official", for whatever that's worth) to the new movie. Not looking for a "personal canon" schitck either. To me, the novels are the official, mainline continuation of the universe and I'm trying to wrap my brain around this comic book that I wanted to like (and rather like parts of) but am conflicted about. I know they aren't obligated. I know it's all non-canon but official. Just wondering what the feeling was from the authors and from the editors, if there had been any.

So, I'm sure it's been addressed, I'm sure it's been commented on to death... so if it has, could I get some links or copy/pastes? Maybe I'm just being blind and missing it.

 

[Thrawn]

The official position, more or less, is "it's gonna be a while before the novels get there; we'll cross that bridge when we come to it." As far as I can tell, anyway.

 

[Therin of Andor]

So I've looked and searched and still can't find a definitive thread or discussion on the position that authors and Pocket are taking in regards to the Countdown comics. Happens? Doesn't? Sucks? Great? Eventually the novels will get to that time period, I'd hope.

It sounds to me like a second movie could go anywhere, and may be too difficult to predict at this point. We got very few licensed tie-ins between ST II and ST III, and between ST III and IV, for example, until many years later. A few stories in "ST II Short Stories" (but most were prequels), and some DC Comics stories that had to skirt around a dead Spock (post-II), and then a memory-impaired Spock (post-III), were all we got in those post-box office months. The first few years of Pocket novels incorporated TMP's, and then ST II's, Starfleet uniforms - but most of the novels were actually set in the 5YM, and were not movie sequels.

I'd say that Pocket will let a bit more information unfold first, but new TOS novels, written from here on in, will start incorporating little factoids from the new movie.

A "Spock Reflections" comic spin-off, from "Countdown" and the new movie, has been announced by IDW.

 

[William Leisner]

So I've looked and searched and still can't find a definitive thread or discussion on the position that authors and Pocket are taking in regards to the Countdown comics.

Ain't one.

 

[Christopher]

What Bill said, basically. There's no definitive position on whether Countdown "happens" or "doesn't happen" in the book continuity. The only "position" is that we want to tell good stories. If someone comes up with a good novel idea that arises from elements of an IDW comic, including Countdown, then that novel will presumably acknowledge that comic. If someone comes up with a good novel idea that requires directly contradicting an IDW comic, including Countdown, then that novel will contradict it. It's not possible to answer the question definitively in advance, because it depends on the needs of the storytelling.

 

[phrog]

I'd say that Pocket will let a bit more information unfold first, but new TOS novels, written from here on in, will start incorporating little factoids from the new movie.

I can't imagine why, though, considering...

Spoiler: Trek XI spoilers

... Bob Orci has said that essentially it's an alternate splinter universe created by Nero going back in time and jacking with things.

From Trekmovie.com:
Anthony: So what happens with the destruction of the Kelvin is the creation of an alternative timeline, but what happens to the prime timeline after Nero leaves it? Does it continue or does it wink out of existence once he goes back and creates this new timeline.
Bob: It continues. According to the most successful, most testedscientific theory ever, quantum mechanics, it continues.
Anthony: So everyone in the prime timeline, like Picard and Riker, are still off doing there thing, it is just that Nero is gone.
Bob: Yes, and you will notice that whenever the movie comes out, that whatever DVDs you have purchased, will continue to exist.


I read that to mean that everything in TNG era Trek takes place in a universe where TOS took place as depicted previously. They both have Archer and the Enterprise, but diverge at the moment the Kelvin is destroyed giving them an affinity for Apple Store design and bigger budgets. So, the only factoids from the new film should be in books produced spinning off directly from it, in that splinter universe, ja?

None of this however would seem to affect Countdown, of course. Thanks for the replies, and I guess we'll see what happens when it happens. I am fully aware that we can always go with the myriad universes approach, which may end up the case.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I can't imagine why, though.

Some authors have already hinted that they will use factoids from the new film when/if such use improves their story. When Kirk was kiiled off in "Generations", some authors delighted in mentioning Kirk's death, while others pretended it never happened.

For example (hypothetical), if the new film says Uhura was once a movie star, someone will use it in a future novel, you can bet on it, even if TOS, TAS and the earlier movies never said so.

 

[Trent Roman]

Christopher had a good analysis of this once: basically, although events have differed from one timeline to the next, that was because of specific intervention from time travel, so anything that happens before that point can be assumed as having place in the former continuity (a.k.a. Harold) as well, just as background details that shouldn't be affected by the timeline changes (locations, species, etc) ought to be the same in both timelines.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Thrawn]

Ah, yes, Harold. Harold is lovable, and hearty; one movie is not enough to kill him.

 

[KRAD]

We got very few licensed tie-ins between ST II and ST III, and between ST III and IV, for example, until many years later.

Erm, well, no, actually, this isn't true. DC Comics published a monthly Star Trek comic that ran, initially, between the second and third movie, and then between the third and fourth. So that was twelve tie-ins a year that were most assuredly not "many years later."

 

[Therin of Andor]

DC Comics published a monthly Star Trek comic that ran, initially, between the second and third movie, and then between the third and fourth. So that was twelve tie-ins a year that were most assuredly not "many years later."

Yes, I'm aware of that. As I said, "some DC Comics stories that had to skirt around a dead Spock (post-II), and then a memory-impaired Spock (post-III), were all we got in those post-box office months".

But, of course, I've worded it all badly again.

 

[EJA]

As far as novels set in the pre-Nero attack timeline go, I'd reckon about the only thing the authors would be able to incorporate into their stories would be Kirk's parents serving on board the USS Kelvin.

 

[Christopher]

I'd say that Pocket will let a bit more information unfold first, but new TOS novels, written from here on in, will start incorporating little factoids from the new movie.

I can't imagine why, though, considering...

Spoiler: Trek XI spoilers

... Bob Orci has said that essentially it's an alternate splinter universe created by Nero going back in time and jacking with things.

Well, yes, but all stories have backstory.

Spoiler: same

Undoubtedly the movie will establish some things about the state of the Trek universe before the timeline divergence. For instance, the timeline diverges when Nero comes back and attacks the USS Kelvin, on which George Kirk serves as Captain Robau's first officer. That means that Captain Robau, the Kelvin, and George Kirk's assignment aboard that ship were part of the original timeline as well. And that makes it possible that future TOS or Vanguard novels could make reference to George's service on the Kelvin, or could include a starship of the Kelvin's class, or could have an appearance by an elderly Admiral Robau.

Also, whatever the movie establishes about, say, Vulcan culture or 23rd-century San Francisco landmarks or transporter physics -- background elements of the universe rather than specific story beats -- would presumably be true in both timelines as well. And of course any new planets or alien species introduced in the movie could be referenced in original-timeline fiction as well.

 

[Jbarney]

I hope the writers don't ignore what the comic book stories create.

 

[fleetcaptain]

I noticed some don't ignore comic stories. They usually crisscross, like when WS had the license. I remember those days and I miss them. I did love how the TNG and DS9 had crossed over in Star Trek Divided We Fall mini series.

 

[David Mack]

^ Thanks! Glad you enjoyed that...

 

[Hartzilla2007]

What Bill said, basically. There's no definitive position on whether Countdown "happens" or "doesn't happen" in the book continuity. The only "position" is that we want to tell good stories. If someone comes up with a good novel idea that arises from elements of an IDW comic, including Countdown, then that novel will presumably acknowledge that comic. If someone comes up with a good novel idea that requires directly contradicting an IDW comic, including Countdown, then that novel will contradict it. It's not possible to answer the question definitively in advance, because it depends on the needs of the storytelling.

Spoiler: A Singular Destiny

Well Countdown occuring in the novel continuity can only happen if the Romulans can get around that fact that if any Borg tech is turned on after Destiny it vaporizes itself

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Spoiler: A Singular Destiny

Well Countdown occuring in the novel continuity can only happen if the Romulans can get around that fact that if any Borg tech is turned on after Destiny it vaporizes itself

Spoiler: However...

the knowledge of Borg technology and how it works isn't going to magically vanish. The Romulans had a lot of time to reverse engineer Borg tech to create the weapons that formed the Narada. It's not Borg tech anymore; it's Borg-derived tech.

 

[JoeZhang]

I'd say that Pocket will let a bit more information unfold first, but new TOS novels, written from here on in, will start incorporating little factoids from the new movie.

I can't imagine why, though, considering...

Spoiler: Trek XI spoilers

... Bob Orci has said that essentially it's an alternate splinter universe created by Nero going back in time and jacking with things.

From Trekmovie.com:
Anthony: So what happens with the destruction of the Kelvin is the creation of an alternative timeline, but what happens to the prime timeline after Nero leaves it? Does it continue or does it wink out of existence once he goes back and creates this new timeline.
Bob: It continues. According to the most successful, most testedscientific theory ever, quantum mechanics, it continues.
Anthony: So everyone in the prime timeline, like Picard and Riker, are still off doing there thing, it is just that Nero is gone.
Bob: Yes, and you will notice that whenever the movie comes out, that whatever DVDs you have purchased, will continue to exist.


I read that to mean that everything in TNG era Trek takes place in a universe where TOS took place as depicted previously. They both have Archer and the Enterprise, but diverge at the moment the Kelvin is destroyed giving them an affinity for Apple Store design and bigger budgets. So, the only factoids from the new film should be in books produced spinning off directly from it, in that splinter universe, ja?

None of this however would seem to affect Countdown, of course. Thanks for the replies, and I guess we'll see what happens when it happens. I am fully aware that we can always go with the myriad universes approach, which may end up the case.

But if the film is a box office smash that *will* be the real universe to a new legion of fans.

 

[Thrawn]

^ That may very well be the case, but the novel line is already set through mid 2010, or close to it. So the old universe (which Christopher named Harold) won't be going away any time soon, regardless of how successful the movie is.

The TV shows only had novels released concurrently with their first seasons because of massive advance writing; something like the first 9 Voyager novels (give or take) were written before a single episode aired. Pocket wasn't given that kind of access to the story of this film, so the natural lead time for the publishing process to happen would need to occur in order to publish books based on that universe anyway.

It's simply not realistic to assume that the Abramsverse will kill Harold, any more than the Spiderman movies killed the Spiderman comics continuity.

If you're arguing that some info from the movie will begin to drift into the novel line, then yes, but it's not going to overwrite it.