Question for those for whom English is a second language

[Miss Chicken]

I have a friend who was born in Germany. He came out to Australia when he was 18. One day I asked him if he thought in English or in German. He said he thought in English and had done so for a long time. He believe he started thinking in English when his eldest children were young but isn't sure.

He said he actually had to translate his thoughts from English into German when he visited Germany a few years ago. He says he just cannot think in German any more (he has now been in Australia for more than 40 years).

So I would like to ask people here who first language isn't English - do you ever think in English for example when you are posting on Trekbbs.

This question can also be answered by people whose first language is English but are living in countries where English is not the main language. Do you ever think in the other language?

Also does anyone know how a person who has been totally deaf since birth thinks? Do they think it sign language or in the written word?

 

[An Officer]

Cool question about the hard of hearing.

English is my second language. I think in a mixture of my mother tongue and English, it's strange, but that's how I do it... when I meet others who are bilingual, we always end up speaking in a mixture of the two as well... selecting the more precise word for each thought - I actually think I communicate in a more efficient way when selecting from two languages to express myself, rather than one. I envy those who speak three languages or more - their mind must be so much more switched on.

 

[Niorah]

Italian is my first language.

I always think in English when English is concerned, say if in my head I'm going over a conversation with someone who I know speaks English, or if I'm writing on an English board. I also dream in English for that matter.
Same thing goes for Italian. If the thought logically requires it, I think in Italian, if the dream requires it I dream in Italian.
For every other "neutral" thought I can think in Italian or in English according to my mood, they are completely interchangeable in my mind.

 

[Jadzia]

English is my first and last language.

But I don't really think with verbal language -- reasoning with words in my mind -- but rather with trails of imagination and intuition.

Words are not thoughts. Thought is a process that happens beneath the words.

Also does anyone know how a person who has been totally deaf since birth thinks? Do they think it sign language or in the written word?

What about young children who haven't yet developed language? Are they unable to think?

 

[iguana_tonante]

Italian is my first language.

I always think in English when English is concerned, say if in my head I'm going over a conversation with someone who I know speaks English, or if I'm writing on an English board. I also dream in English for that matter.
Same thing goes for Italian. If the thought logically requires it, I think in Italian, if the dream requires it I dream in Italian.
For every other "neutral" thought I can think in Italian or in English according to my mood, they are completely interchangeable in my mind.

Same here. When I speak in English with someone or I think about something I originally heard or read in English (books, movies, etc), I think in English. Sometimes an Italian word will pop up in my mind, and I will translate it, but it's becoming rarer.
When I speak in Italian or thing about something originally in Italian, I think in the same language, but English words are increasingly coming up in my mind (and out of my mouth, which drives my Italian friends crazy). Recently I started to forget the language originally used in something I heard or read after finishing it, which is cool but also slightly weird for me!

 

[trekkiedane]

I always think in English when English is concerned, say if in my head I'm going over a conversation with someone who I know speaks English, or if I'm writing on an English board. I also dream in English for that matter.

Me 2!

Also does anyone know how a person who has been totally deaf since birth thinks? Do they think it sign language or in the written word?

Language is so much more than verbalization, so I would imagine those that can't understand language (infants, the deaf, cavemen…) think/dream exactly like the rest of us -they're just not able to verbalise it.

 

[Angry Angel]

Most often in whatever makes for the shortest words. I mix both Dutch and English and have been doing so since late high school. It was a pain to make summaries or notes in Dutch when an English word would be so much shorter. That became even more English-fied throughout Uni, where courses were mostly given in English as well ... albeit cringe worthy English. These days I'm starting to mix Swedish in, which makes it all the more confusing when I actually want to say something

 

[Miss Chicken]

I always think in English when English is concerned, say if in my head I'm going over a conversation with someone who I know speaks English, or if I'm writing on an English board. I also dream in English for that matter.

Me 2!

Also does anyone know how a person who has been totally deaf since birth thinks? Do they think it sign language or in the written word?

Language is so much more than verbalization, so I would imagine those that can't understand language (infants, the deaf, cavemen…) think/dream exactly like the rest of us -they're just not able to verbalise it.

I have been doing a little research and have found out this

The answer to your question is now obvious. In what language do the profoundly deaf think? Why, in Sign (or the local equivalent), assuming they were fortunate enough to have learned it in infancy. The hearing can have only a general idea what this is like--the gulf between spoken and visual language is far greater than that between, say, English and Russian. Research suggests that the brain of a native deaf signer is organized differently from that of a hearing person.

Rest of article here

What about young children who haven't yet developed language? Are they unable to think?

I imagine that young children are able to think in their native tongue well before they are able to speak - they probably start thinking verbally at a few months old.

 

[thestrangequark]

I was deaf as an infant and small child. I spoke in ASL from around age 1 to 3.5, making English my second language, in a way. A series of surgeries, beginning when I was 2.5 and ending at age 12, restored my hearing so that I hear within the normal range in one ear and only slightly below normal in the other. While I continued to communicate in sign primarily, I started learning spoken English around age 4, and while I had as good a vocabulary an understanding of spoken and written English as my peers by the time I entered kindergarten, it wasn't until I was 6 or so that anyone could understand my speech.

I have many memories of my early childhood. I can't really remember exactly what it was like not to hear; but all the memories I have before age 4 or 5 are completely silent, yet visually intense and vivid. I did have an advanced understanding of space and visual perception for my age, but I don't know if I can attribute that to the speedier development of visual senses in the absence of hearing, or if it's just because I am naturally artistically talented (please note, I'm not trying to sound snobby, just being factual). I believe I thought in pictures, then, and I have vague memories of thinking in sign. I wonder sometimes if the circumstances of my early sensory development had a very large effect on my artistic ability. Every once in a while I have silent dreams, that I think are a holdover from the days when I couldn't hear.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Thanks for sharing that with us thestrangequark.

I also had a hearing problem as a child though not bad enough to be labelled deaf but enough for me to have trouble communicating. When I was six the only persons who could understand what I said were my sisters, one who was 18 months older, the other 2.5 years older than me). They used to have to translate my speech for my parents. It seems that the hearing improved greatly when I had my tonsils removed aged 4.5 years. However by then my speech was so bad that what I learnt had to be undone. I also think I must have been confused because I know heard things differently. I had speech therapy from when I was four until I was nine and then again a year of speech therapy when I was about 13 to correct some speech problems I still had (most noticeable I could say the "th" sound). There are still words I cannot pronounce properly today.

I had difficulty learning other languages (I studied both French and German) and I think this stemmed from my early hearing problems. I also had problems with music and serious problems with spelling. I have never been able to easily spell a word I haven't seen in print or work out how to pronounce a word that I see written but never heard spoken.

 

[thestrangequark]

^I shared some of the same difficulties. I started speech therapy in 1st grade, and improved rapidly; I'm sure my rapid recovery was due to the continuing surgical treatment I received. I still have a slight lisp (so slight that it's mostly noticeable only when I'm tired or...impaired ). I did have my tonsils out at about 2.5, though I don't know if that affected my hearing at all.
I don't think my hearing problems affected my musical inclinations, fortunately, or my ability to learn languages -- though I can easily see how they could. I've played the cello from age 10, but I do remember that when I was younger, resting the pegs against my neck so as to feel the vibrations of the instrument was vital to my playing in tune. I suppose I would not be so good at a wind instrument. I'm a fairly quick study with languages, but I can't mimic accents for the life of me. Like you, I am also a very poor speller, and I'm certain this is in part due to my hearing -- but mostly I just thinking I'm stupid when it comes to spelling (though my spelling improve significantly whilst in college).
One issue I struggle with every once in a while, aside from occasionally having to ask folks to repeat themselves, is that it's difficult for me to hear the difference between V and B. Because I've read enough words at this point in my life I usually know which consonant to use, but the problem did plague me well into high school. I think I was 15 or so before I knew that it was "standing ovation" and not "standing obation," simply because I'd hadn't read the word.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I also have the problem with the V and B sounds but I didn't realise I had a problem until my son's speech therapist pointed it out. My son had similar hearing problems to me but his speech problems were initially put down to his cerebral palsy. He had grommets put in his ears when he was seven and after that his speech improved drastically. He told me about a year later that his hearing before the grommets was like being in a tunnel.

I also have to sometimes ask people to repeat what they say and I like to watch DVDs with subtitles on. I have serious problems with understanding people with accents if I am talking to them on the phone.

I improved my spelling when I was about 17 by doing crosswords, word puzzles etc.

I had no trouble learning to play the clarinet at school but I was unable to tell what a note was just by listening to it or tell if a instrument was out of tune etc.

 

[Roger Wilco]

So I would like to ask people here who first language isn't English - do you ever think in English for example when you are posting on Trekbbs.

Usually when I'm writing something on TBBS I just do it without thinking about it German, other times I do translate what I'm trying to say from German to English. But what you're describing is very common in my experience when you spend enough time with a language, especially when you're using it every day.

 

[Verteron]

But I don't really think with verbal language -- reasoning with words in my mind -- but rather with trails of imagination and intuition.

Words are not thoughts. Thought is a process that happens beneath the words.

The majority of people use language internally in their mind to think about particular problems, lists, rehearse conversations, etc. This is sometimes known as an "internal monologue". Speaking to oneself is generally considered to be a pretty critical part of the human consciousness, although some people do it more than others (naming no names I'm sure we can all think of various funny TV series that play on internal monologues certain characters maintain).

I think the answers in this thread are all very interesting, although I don't have much to contribute myself. Whilst I speak a couple of other languages English is my mother tongue and I think in English, I've never achieved a sufficient mastery of other languages such that I naturally speak to myself in them. That said, I am at the step before that, where I can speak words in another language without having to consider the English first and manually translate.

Perhaps the ability to think is a sign of true bilingualism.

 

[Finn]

Hello. Deaf person here. Alright, I have severe to moderate severe hearing loss. So I don't speak well. I don't consider it a problem .

The only way I can describe how I think is that in my case (we don't all think the same way, and the same goes for you hearing people), voice, mouthing and ASL are fused together. I Usually don't visualize my hands. I just..."say" it in my head. I don't know if that makes sense at all.

 

[Naira]

I think in English when I am writing an English report or have a conversation in English. Like An Officer, when I talk with a bilingual person, I often use both languages.

What is strange is that when I talk with another Greek person in everyday life I only use Greek. BUT, when I talk with another Greek while abroad (in a conference or something) I often use both Greek and English.

I also speak German but I was never able to think in German. However, I think this has to do with the fact that I do not have many opportunities to use the German language so I am not so used to it.
http://www.trekbbs.com/member.php?u=1327

 

[Jadzia]

But I don't really think with verbal language -- reasoning with words in my mind -- but rather with trails of imagination and intuition.

Words are not thoughts. Thought is a process that happens beneath the words.

The majority of people use language internally in their mind to think about particular problems, lists, rehearse conversations, etc. This is sometimes known as an "internal monologue". Speaking to oneself is generally considered to be a pretty critical part of the human consciousness, although some people do it more than others (naming no names I'm sure we can all think of various funny TV series that play on internal monologues certain characters maintain).

Expanding on that. I find that a lot is lost from a thought when it is "translated" into verbal language. I feel that verbal language is inferior to "internal brain language". In just the same way as "a picture tells a thousand words"

I find that thoughts can be more complex with imagination and intuition than what is achievable with words. Although I can and do use verbal language internally, it isn't so much thought, but one way of keeping track of thoughts.

So for example, by converting thoughts into internal verbal language, it is easier to "package" a thought, making it easier to remember, or at least create something that I can use to trigger the original thought in original form. And of course articulate my thoughts to others.

One of the side effects of this I've found is that I feel I have a better ability to communicate with others in non-verbal ways.

But no. Verbal language isn't essential for me to think.

So why are my thoughts like this? I can only imagine it is because I began having complex thoughts and analyzing and making sense of my environment while I was very young, before my verbal language was fully developed.

Secondly, 'intuition' is my strongest mental faculty, with thought (reasoning) and feeling being about equal second place, while 'senses' comes in forth place.

 

[An Officer]

One of the side effects of this I've found is that I feel I have a better ability to communicate with others in non-verbal ways.

Which ways are those? Through touch, gesticulation, or something like that? I find British people are not extremely comfortable with either (that doesn't go for everyone of course)...

 

[Jadzia]

One of the side effects of this I've found is that I feel I have a better ability to communicate with others in non-verbal ways.

Which ways are those? Through touch, gesticulation, or something like that? I find British people are not extremely comfortable with either (that doesn't go for everyone of course)...

Hmm...

I mean like body language, or if I needed to communicate something to a person who didn't speak english, or teach such a person something, I'd feel confident that I could do that without verbal language.

But of course communication is a two-way process. So I would require the other person to listen with more than their ears

 

[Shaytan]

So I would like to ask people here who first language isn't English - do you ever think in English for example when you are posting on Trekbbs.

I've recently discovered that it's difficult for me to summarize in French a film or a book I've read/seen in English so I guess my answer is yes.
Sometimes I must play around words because of a lack of vocabulary but English is becoming more natural now. I've even found myself speaking alone in English at home. I think I'm becoming mad