I Had the Most Amazing Day

[Spaceman Spiff]

To me, the strangest thing about the concept of demonic possession and exorcism is that for at least two hundred years, nobody really dealt with either. As far as I'm aware, there wasn't any mention of demons being driven out even during huge charismatic Christian events like the Azuza Street revival. Speaking in tongues, spirit baptism and all that, sure, but no cases of demonic possession/exorcism.

Then The Exorcist came out in '73, and since then, it's been everywhere.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Some of you will probably think I'm crazy, but I just feel compelled to share about this awesome experience.

Yeah, I'm sure the thought that it would be a controversial topic bound to rise debate here never touched your mind.

I was at church when I felt the holy spirit on my heart like never before, and seconds later I could hear a man in one of the backrooms having a demon driven out of him by God.

Err... of course. I'm sure it was that.

***ETA - Some of the responses I've read after the OP are just stunning. People that are seperated from God ask for tolerance from those that are not. How about showing some of your own and having a civil discussion? Or not posting in the thread at all? The OP, who I have certainly disagreed with in the past, did nothing to warrant these responses.

Yes, I'm sure he posted it here only because the Holy Spirit commanded him to do so.

For those of you who have never experienced what Michael did this weekend, I can only say you have missed something very special. It is an overwhelming feeling of oneness, a connection to the Universal Truth that can make you cry.

Being maybe a bit more ecumenical than some, I can say that while I have had this feeling the same way and in the same venue as Michael did on many occasions, I've also felt this connected to God while deep into a jam at a Grateful Dead concert, my head filled with chemicals. I've also had the same feeling of ecstasy at many other concerts, yet totally straight. I can remember feeling it during a particularly powerful Morning Dew back in '74 while I was as sober as the proverbial judge. I've felt it at sunrise in Arches National Monument and on a cold mid-afternoon in the Rockies. I've even felt it deep in meditation in my own living room. I say whatever floats your boat.

Still, the wonder that Michael felt should not be discounted by anyone, believers or non-believers. It is real. I can testify to that. God bless you, Michael, and continue doing the work of the Lord. For the rest of you, I hope you find your own way to get connected to the soulful universe.

It may surprise you (or not), but even as an atheist I know perfectly this feeling. I feel it every time I gaze into the starry night sky, or admire a work of art, or understand a very deep yet very elegant mathematical equation. However, I do not attach any religious significance to it. Just to point out that the experience of the numinous is not restricted to people of faith.

 

[Holdfast]

What's the difference between "religious ecstasy" and delusion?

Short answer: which group of experts in the field you believe.

Longer answer: the answer is that psychiatric diagnostic criteria have a built-in test for cultural context. Culturally accepted phenomena are by definition not delusional in content. Religious experience falls under this exemption.

Deeper, more accurate answer: Why accept this exemption at all? Well, why accept ANY classificatory system in psychiatry? Come to that, why accept any classificatory system in any subject? They're all built upon an agreed frame of reference, which is internally consistent at the time of agreement. So is religion. You might say one is more scientific, and thus more representative of reality. I would answer, why is that actually more important or meaningful? It depends on what you value in life, and whether you believe in the concepts of objective truth and how you define that term.

It all sounds simple and easy to be glib about on the surface, but these are pretty deep and turbulent waters underneath. Most people sail happily on the surface, sure of their own preconceptions about truth and reality.

 

[Outpost4]

For those of you who have never experienced what Michael did this weekend, I can only say you have missed something very special. It is an overwhelming feeling of oneness, a connection to the Universal Truth that can make you cry.

< snip >

It may surprise you (or not), but even as an atheist I know perfectly this feeling. I feel it every time I gaze into the starry night sky, or admire a work of art, or understand a very deep yet very elegant mathematical equation. However, I do not attach any religious significance to it. Just to point out that the experience of the numinous is not restricted to people of faith.

You had it right with the "or not". I've met many people who are deeply spiritual and not religeous at all. Personally, one of my deepest spiritual moments happened in a hotel ballroom in Denver and had nothing to do with religion. I was also totally sober and had been for quite a while. And yet, at that moment, I told someone else exactly how a stranger on the other side of the country felt, thought and acted, knowing nothing else about them outside of basic driver's license information. And I was dead nuts on. The person I was with, who knew this other man, was more surprised and shook up than I was. It was spookily spiritual, and for me, a rush and a half.

 

[JoeZhang]

To me, the strangest thing about the concept of demonic possession and exorcism is that for at least two hundred years, nobody really dealt with either. As far as I'm aware, there wasn't any mention of demons being driven out even during huge charismatic Christian events like the Azuza Street revival. Speaking in tongues, spirit baptism and all that, sure, but no cases of demonic possession/exorcism.

Then The Exorcist came out in '73, and since then, it's been everywhere.

Isn't the rapture also a relatively recent thing?

 

[Michael Chris]

^The concept of the rapture is somewhat Biblically based, but not really. Being filled with the holy spirit is certainly.

To me, the strangest thing about the concept of demonic possession and exorcism is that for at least two hundred years, nobody really dealt with either. As far as I'm aware, there wasn't any mention of demons being driven out even during huge charismatic Christian events like the Azuza Street revival. Speaking in tongues, spirit baptism and all that, sure, but no cases of demonic possession/exorcism.

Then The Exorcist came out in '73, and since then, it's been everywhere.

In regards to demons, Christ Himself drove out demons, so the idea is not unfounded, but it probably is quite rare. I've never seen it manifest before. However, I think it will become more prevalent in the future.

Yeah, I'm sure the thought that it would be a controversial topic bound to rise debate here never touched your mind.

Sure, I knew that my beliefs might be controversial after I posted but just felt that I should share what made my day awesome.

It may surprise you (or not), but even as an atheist I know perfectly this feeling. I feel it every time I gaze into the starry night sky, or admire a work of art, or understand a very deep yet very elegant mathematical equation. However, I do not attach any religious significance to it. Just to point out that the experience of the numinous is not restricted to people of faith.

I've done all those things, but believe me they were nothing like what happened on Sunday. I've felt God before, but never like this. It was astonishing. Probably the most impressive thing I felt prior was being madly in love and planning the rest of my life, but that was nothing compared to this.

 

[JuanBolio]

I find it interesting that 99% of people who have these experiences are the people who've had the idea of god, demonic possession, and speaking in tongues drilled into their head from an early age.

Actually, it isn't so much interesting as it is telling.

 

[Michael Chris]

Actually that's not at all the case with me. I was raised Baptist without the slightest bit of Pentecostalism. Frankly I always was disturbed by tongues and the like and thought they were pretty much blasphemous before I started going to my church about a year and a half ago.

 

[JuanBolio]

If you had been raised atheist or agnostic I might be convinced to abandon my theory. However:

I was raised Baptist without the slightest bit of Pentecostalism.

That's still heavy-duty emotion-based Jesus and hellfire stuff.

 

[Michael Chris]

Not really for me. :-\

 

[Brent]

When people ask me what I am, as in denomination, my reply is "I am a devoted follower of Jesus Christ"

I think often times people put too much emphasis on the label, and assume everyone under that label is the same.

For the record I was brought up in a Methodist church, later in my life I went to a Baptist church, and this is where I got saved. Now though, the church I attend doesn't really have a "denomination" in the classic sense. Their mission statement is: "We are called by the Grace of God, for the Glory of God, to become and multiply fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ."

 

[iguana_tonante]

Just to point out that the experience of the numinous is not restricted to people of faith.

You had it right with the "or not". I've met many people who are deeply spiritual and not religeous at all.

Actually, I wanted to point out that, even if I know the feeling, to me there is nothing spiritual about it. Intense, yes. Moving, yes. Exhilarating, yes. But spiritual? What does that even mean? It's a feeling, a chemical reaction in your brain. I simply don't understand the need to attach something different to it: it's just as awesome as it is. Same with love: it's a chain of chemical reactions in your nervous system, a behavioral pattern evolved through biology, a relationship shared between individuals or groups of people. And it's awesome. I'm madly in love with my fiancee, I love my parents and friends, I love my life, etc. Why does it need to be spiritual to be good? Does the fact that I need the oxygen in the atmosphere belittle the experience of every breath I take? Should we say that we "inhale the essence of the invisible living force" to make breathing better? Sorry for the rant, but this really befuddles me...

Yeah, I'm sure the thought that it would be a controversial topic bound to rise debate here never touched your mind.

Sure, I knew that my beliefs might be controversial after I posted but just felt that I should share what made my day awesome.

Of course you know it, I was just pointing that to TLS who found the replies to you "stunning". I suppose that he's stunned also when he comes up to the soccer match with the wrong colors and people start talking trash about him.

It may surprise you (or not), but even as an atheist I know perfectly this feeling. I feel it every time I gaze into the starry night sky, or admire a work of art, or understand a very deep yet very elegant mathematical equation. However, I do not attach any religious significance to it. Just to point out that the experience of the numinous is not restricted to people of faith.

I've done all those things, but believe me they were nothing like what happened on Sunday. I've felt God before, but never like this. It was astonishing. Probably the most impressive thing I felt prior was being madly in love and planning the rest of my life, but that was nothing compared to this.

Here is where you cross from saying that your experience is good to saying that my experiences are lesser. Who are you to say that? To know what I felt doing my things and say it's less of what you felt doing your things? Your high horse crumbles to ash under your ass.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

To me, the strangest thing about the concept of demonic possession and exorcism is that for at least two hundred years, nobody really dealt with either. As far as I'm aware, there wasn't any mention of demons being driven out even during huge charismatic Christian events like the Azuza Street revival. Speaking in tongues, spirit baptism and all that, sure, but no cases of demonic possession/exorcism.

Then The Exorcist came out in '73, and since then, it's been everywhere.

In regards to demons, Christ Himself drove out demons, so the idea is not unfounded, but it probably is quite rare. I've never seen it manifest before. However, I think it will become more prevalent in the future.

Except that the terminology was written in a manner understood at the time. If you believe that Jesus could heal the blind, then He could heal mental illness as well.

I just mean that there was a huge stretch of time where no one really believed that evil spirits entered human bodies to harass them, then after a movie popularized the concept, it's been happening everywhere.

 

[Pingfah]

T'Baio, if you think Michael's off his rocker, you need to let me explain my own faith to you sometime.
The thing is, it harms no one and it works for me, just like Michael's works for him. It brings him joy and you don't have to pretend to care. What could be better?

J.

I certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with feeling a joyful connection to god or the universe, or whatever strikes awe into you. But the poor man in the back room, supposedly having a demon driven out of him as the smiling congregation sits next door hearing his screams and praising the lord?

As somebody who has no belief whatsoever in anything beyond our physical selves and the tangible universe I can only conclude that this man is most likely to be mentally ill, and because he has been convinced that he is possessed he is not really getting the help that he needs. It seems to me that the consequences for him could well be real and harmful. I find that rather disturbing.