Opposing Magnets Query

[Jadzia]

I want a couple of these methinks.

I feel sorry for the postman whose bag will inevitably get stuck to a street lamps while he's on his rounds.

Actually, there are strict legal limits on sending magnets in the post. Imagine if one goes into a mail sack with another package containing memory cards or digital electronic devices.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I want a couple of these methinks.

I feel sorry for the postman whose bag will inevitably get stuck to a street lamps while he's on his rounds.

Actually, there are strict legal limits on sending magnets in the post. Imagine if one goes into a mail sack with another package containing memory cards or digital electronic devices.

Yes I was thinking the same thing, I was imagining his mail bag getting sucked to the side of the van or the package getting stuck to the outside of the mail box.

I'm sure there are legal limits but I would hope the guy sending it would know what they are. Anything goes wrong he's the one who packaged it and not me.

 

[TIN_MAN]

What you're talking about is called dia-magnetism, it's closely related to scalar elctromagnetics. there are lots of 'free energy' devices based on these principles, check out Col. Tom Beardon's website, it has all kinds of wild stuff on there!

 

[PurpleBuddha]

Neat, another perpetual motion machine. If your little experiment gave you the results you wanted, you would turn the entire world of physics on it ear, win a Nobel prize and be one of the most famous people on earth.

My bet is that all our knowledge about magnetism is not as deeply flawed as you think, and neither are the principles of conservation of energy. But do not let my negative (realistic) attitude stop you. Besides, it is always productive to take the bull by the horn and do some real experimenting. You can learn as much by failing as succeeding.

 

[deck5]

You can learn as much by failing as succeeding.

He should try reading. It's cheaper, and guaranteed to reduce his ignorance.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Neat, another perpetual motion machine.

You need to read what one of those is, because what i'm talking about doesn't have motion at all let alone motion that is perpetual.

My bet is that all our knowledge about magnetism is not as deeply flawed as you think,

Well that's a bet you'll lose.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

You can learn as much by failing as succeeding.

He should try reading. It's cheaper, and guaranteed to reduce his ignorance.

Well, yeah, but by experimenting on this one it'll gain him four really bitchin' refrigerator magnets. Besides, this one is safe to play with compared to some other thought experiments Taccy has floated here on the forum.

 

[cultcross]

Neat, another perpetual motion machine.

You need to read what one of those is, because what i'm talking about doesn't have motion at all let alone motion that is perpetual.

So what are you gonna use this generated electricity for?
If it's doing any work at all, you're generating perpetual work - which violates conservation of energy.

 

[ancient]

If you put two static magnetic fields together you're not going to get a flux, just a repelling force between two static fields. The size doesn't matter. Nothing will happen. The only way to get a flux is to move the fields. If you don't move them, you get nothing. Moving them takes work, and you're back to square one. Welcome to physics.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I'm just curious, if I am successful with this and it does work and generates power how do I go about ensuring I become rich from it? do I patent the design or something? what if my design works yet is inefficient but using the principle that I discovered someone else designs a better more efficient model, would I be able to claim money from them or would they be allowed to patent the new design?

 

[cultcross]

I'm just curious, if I am successful with this and it does work and generates power how do I go about ensuring I become rich from it? do I patent the design or something? what if my design works yet is inefficient but using the principle that I discovered someone else designs a better more efficient model, would I be able to claim money from them or would they be allowed to patent the new design?

I'm fairly sure you can safely say you'll never make a penny from this design. Luckily, no-one else will either.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I'm just curious, if I am successful with this and it does work and generates power how do I go about ensuring I become rich from it? do I patent the design or something? what if my design works yet is inefficient but using the principle that I discovered someone else designs a better more efficient model, would I be able to claim money from them or would they be allowed to patent the new design?

I'm fairly sure you can safely say you'll never make a penny from this design. Luckily, no-one else will either.

You're just assuming it won't work. I want answers for if it does work. Maybe I experiment and tweak the design and discover something new.

 

[cultcross]

I'm just curious, if I am successful with this and it does work and generates power how do I go about ensuring I become rich from it? do I patent the design or something? what if my design works yet is inefficient but using the principle that I discovered someone else designs a better more efficient model, would I be able to claim money from them or would they be allowed to patent the new design?

I'm fairly sure you can safely say you'll never make a penny from this design. Luckily, no-one else will either.

You're just assuming it won't work. I want answers for if it does work. Maybe I experiment and tweak the design and discover something new.

Fine - you can patent your concept, but that doesn't stop people improving on it or changing it and selling one of their own - but you can trademark your Taccy Brand Perpetual Motion Machine to protect your name.
Of course, if you could really generate infinite power from two big magnets, wouldn't most people just buy the big magnets instead of, you know, paying for power?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Of course, if you could really generate infinite power from two big magnets, wouldn't most people just buy the big magnets instead of, you know, paying for power?

That's a little silly. That's like saying if you can generate infinite power from the sun or wind why don't people just build their own wind turbines and solar power plants in the their back yard. To power a house you'd probably need several large magnets.

Fine - you can patent your concept, but that doesn't stop people improving on it or changing it and selling one of their own

Well that's not very fair is it. Now I know why Nikola Tesla was broke.

 

[Jadzia]

That's a little silly. That's like saying if you can generate infinite power from the sun or wind why don't people just build their own wind turbines and solar power plants in the their back yard. To power a house you'd probably need several large magnets.

Given that,

I've just said, if any fluctuating occurs it's going to be IMO very tiny and will require huge magnets.

So just how big will these magnets need to be to power a house?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

^ I dunno, I haven't started the experiment yet.

 

[Jadzia]

^ I dunno, I haven't started the experiment yet.

Guestimate.

Consider that a house can use 10kWh per day, which is like a 400W continuous load.

What would you expect to be a minimum size for powering, say, a 20W lightbulb? (1/20th of an average house)

Would you expect those high strength neodymium magnets you saw on ebay to be sufficient for that?

If not, then what sort of power would you expect two of those magnets would output? Enough to power a simple flashlight (1W), or enough to power a measly LED (0.05W)?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

It's impossible to guestimate, I don't even know if it will work yet.

Anyway i've just thought up another experiment.

It will be thus:

Imagine there is a wheel laid horizontally and sprouting off from this wheel are several springs all going around the edge of the wheel. Upon the end of each of these springs are magnets. Now each magnetic going around the outside of the wheel will be of different sizes, going from smallest to largest all the way around, the largest magnets will attract more strongly the smaller magnet. The final largest magnet in the sequence will end with it having the same side facing the first magnet which will cause the last and first magnets of the wheel to be in repulsion rather than attraction.

So as you can imagine the 2nd magnet will attract the 1st but the 3rd magnet will attract more strongly the 2nd one and so on and so forth which will cause the wheel to move.

Now around the entire wheel and it's connected magnets will be an array of further magnets all of differing sizes that will continually repel and attract the wheels magnets, this continual battle between the magnets will cause the springs to vibrate thus causing the wheel the have movement which will in turn cause further movement of the magnetic fields and will thus pass through a nearby coiled wire which will thus produce electricity.

 

[Jadzia]

So kind of like a series of donkeys chasing a series of carrots?

I think it's a winner

 

[cultcross]

Even if your Tachyon Wheel actually turned, you couldn't do any actual work with it without taking energy out of the system. This would stop it turning and it would quickly reach equilibrium state. The only way a 'perpetual motion' machine can work is if it is in a 100% closed system with 100% efficient energy 'recycling'.

Magnets as perpetual motion machines is not a new idea, Taccy. As the link says, magnets can do no net work.