I'd say registry numbers based alone, that's practically a foregone conclusion.
I'd also say the Federation is a lot bigger, too.
Size of the Federation and Starfleet
- Thread starter Patrickivan
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I'd say registry numbers based alone, that's practically a foregone conclusion.
I'd also say the Federation is a lot bigger, too.
I'd say registry numbers based alone, that's practically a foregone conclusion.
I'd also say the Federation is a lot bigger, too.
Agreed.
It's why I like the large 'spidery' Federation territory model for the 24th century. It just makes everything make more sense. More planets = more ships, so a big fleet widely dispersed enough to keep the old standard of 'the only ship in the quadrant.' The Enterprise-D seeming to be all over the place, DS9 seeming so 'remote' yet not that far from Earth distance-wise. Just works for me.
UFP FLEET STRENGTH:
_____________________________________________
Class:.........................Total in Service......Destroyed *
_____________________________________________
EXPLORERS:
Galaxy..........................................48..................11
Sovereign........................................8....................1
Nebula..........................................99..................24
Rigel............................................201.................46
CRUISERS:
Ambassador.................................445..................51
Excelsior(All Variants)..................1534................195
Renaissance.................................301..................57
Akira...........................................106...................8
Andromeda..................................104..................34
Prometheus......................................9....................0
FRIGATES:
Cheyenne....................................856...................77
Saber...........................................520..................81
New Orelans................................425...................43
Miranda.....................................2345.................201
Centaur......................................1607..................94
Freedom.....................................1234..................88
Norway.......................................1450...............104
Yeager............................................42.................12
Challenger....................................497..................75
ESCORTS:
Defiant............................................57....................3
Steamrunner..................................709..................92
Springfield...................................1255................147
Rapier.............................................97..................18
SCOUTS:
Intrepid(Most Variants)...................... 35...................4
Constellation....................................25....................6
Korolev............................................59..................22
Sequoia............................................36...................7
________________________________________________
TOTAL of Class I Ships..................13991.............1419
20 Fleets of 700 ships + Auxiliaries at full strength
during a war footing.
Losses are roughly 10% of total combat fleet strength
________________________________________________
Transports....................................2355.................216
Other Auxiliaries...........................1040.................187
Long Range Shuttles......................1411...................34
Hospital Ships.................................112...................14
Other.............................................347...................19
________________________________________________
TOTAL AUXILIARIES......................5265..................469
TOTAL ALL SHIPS.......................19,256................1889
*Mostly Dominion War Losses
________________________________________________
RAMA
_____________________________________________
Class:.........................Total in Service......Destroyed *
_____________________________________________
EXPLORERS:
Galaxy..........................................48..................11
Sovereign........................................8....................1
Nebula..........................................99..................24
Rigel............................................201.................46
CRUISERS:
Ambassador.................................445..................51
Excelsior(All Variants)..................1534................195
Renaissance.................................301..................57
Akira...........................................106...................8
Andromeda..................................104..................34
Prometheus......................................9....................0
FRIGATES:
Cheyenne....................................856...................77
Saber...........................................520..................81
New Orelans................................425...................43
Miranda.....................................2345.................201
Centaur......................................1607..................94
Freedom.....................................1234..................88
Norway.......................................1450...............104
Yeager............................................42.................12
Challenger....................................497..................75
ESCORTS:
Defiant............................................57....................3
Steamrunner..................................709..................92
Springfield...................................1255................147
Rapier.............................................97..................18
SCOUTS:
Intrepid(Most Variants)...................... 35...................4
Constellation....................................25....................6
Korolev............................................59..................22
Sequoia............................................36...................7
________________________________________________
TOTAL of Class I Ships..................13991.............1419
20 Fleets of 700 ships + Auxiliaries at full strength
during a war footing.
Losses are roughly 10% of total combat fleet strength
________________________________________________
Transports....................................2355.................216
Other Auxiliaries...........................1040.................187
Long Range Shuttles......................1411...................34
Hospital Ships.................................112...................14
Other.............................................347...................19
________________________________________________
TOTAL AUXILIARIES......................5265..................469
TOTAL ALL SHIPS.......................19,256................1889
*Mostly Dominion War Losses
________________________________________________
RAMA
Last edited:
Yes, please.
I apologize I had to edit it and left out my "header". It anticipates on screen information; the size of UFP space, and a realistic size for the fleet. Its an older post worked out between myself and someone else from a different bulletin board. It is by no means official, it just makes a lot of sense. The ship classes are all "official".
RAMA
RAMA
Oh, Praetor, to answer your question about 504xx, USS Crazy Horse is listed on Memory Alpha as NCC-50446 and is shown as an Excelsior...but the notes below on MA show it was intended to be a Cheyenne-class ship. Since the ship appeared onscreen, I am still considering it to be 50446, though we never got a good look at the registry number.
I finally got to read the link you gave in a previous post on 2379 fleet composition; good stuff therein.
Y'all can go read it as well; be my guest.
I am starting to lean towards a larger fleet, but perhaps not quite a 5,000-ship fleet. One of the problems I had with a 30,000-ship fleet, however, other than the dramatics of it, is the naming of ships...even though the English language (not to be Anglo-centric, but most of Trek is in English, so don't go bash...) is vast at some point you start running out of "good" action-y names for ships, unless you start using other-than-English names or alien language names, you will have to start calling ships "And" and "The", or resorting to Latin (or pig-Latin)
"Sir, we are being hailed...it is the USS periodic-chart-symbol-for-boron!" (apologies to Jerry Seinfeld)
I finally got to read the link you gave in a previous post on 2379 fleet composition; good stuff therein.
Y'all can go read it as well; be my guest
.I am starting to lean towards a larger fleet, but perhaps not quite a 5,000-ship fleet. One of the problems I had with a 30,000-ship fleet, however, other than the dramatics of it, is the naming of ships...even though the English language (not to be Anglo-centric, but most of Trek is in English, so don't go bash...) is vast at some point you start running out of "good" action-y names for ships, unless you start using other-than-English names or alien language names, you will have to start calling ships "And" and "The", or resorting to Latin (or pig-Latin)
"Sir, we are being hailed...it is the USS periodic-chart-symbol-for-boron!" (apologies to Jerry Seinfeld)
MOST of the ship names should be in alien languages. Earth is just one member of the Federation, after all. That's one of my biggest problems with the Encyclopedia: while they had the right idea to make some unseen ships also members of unseen classes to flesh out the Starfleet a little bit, they named the vast majority of those classes after Earth stuff. On the show, I understand the need to preserve the naval flair by using a lot of those familiar names, but the book had room to push the boundaries a little bit on that. Fans bought that book and they'd have played ball with a class called Shrelev or Degbaxis or Tashik-Sotra or something.
^Agreed, JNG.
The depiction of Starfleet on TOS often seemed to imply that it was an exclusively Earth-operated organization. I realize, of course, that this was because the production team wasn't entirely sure from the start for whom the Enterprise operated.
I see. IIRC, the Crazy Horse was just a re-use of stock Excelsior footage, so I doubt the model had a number on it, so either way, it's probably not a big deal.
I also tend to favor a roughly 10,000 to 15,000 ship Dominion-War era fleet. Big enough, but not too big.
The depiction of Starfleet on TOS often seemed to imply that it was an exclusively Earth-operated organization. I realize, of course, that this was because the production team wasn't entirely sure from the start for whom the Enterprise operated.
I see. IIRC, the Crazy Horse was just a re-use of stock Excelsior footage, so I doubt the model had a number on it, so either way, it's probably not a big deal.
I also tend to favor a roughly 10,000 to 15,000 ship Dominion-War era fleet. Big enough, but not too big.
S
suneel44
Guest
The United Federation of Planets famous Starfleet has been said by some to be the largest fleet of starships in the quadrant. The primary location of Federation shipbuilding efforts is the Utopia Planatia shipyards, located on the surface of Mars. A political preference for multi-purpose vessels keeps the shipyards very busy -- despite producing larger ships than most other governments, the Federation's Starfleet is still comperable in size to the strongest governments in the galaxy.
Makes sense: one might think that if the Klingons or the Romulans had a bigger fleet, the UFP would be history already, whereas the goody-good nature of the Feds prevents the annihilation of those alien cultures even if Starfleet outpowers them ten to one.
But it's probably more like 1.3 to one, or else there would be much less drama in the Fed/Klingon or Fed/Romulan conflicts...
And it does seem that the Feds only control a tiny corner of the galaxy, and have encountered only a select few of the controllers of other corners. There might be vastly larger empires in the Alpha Quadrant somewhere, waiting to be found.
Timo Saloniemi
Edit: I don't know which is more embarrassing, finding out I've been agreeing with a bot, or finding out I've been agreeing with something that Memory Alpha says.
But it's probably more like 1.3 to one, or else there would be much less drama in the Fed/Klingon or Fed/Romulan conflicts...
And it does seem that the Feds only control a tiny corner of the galaxy, and have encountered only a select few of the controllers of other corners. There might be vastly larger empires in the Alpha Quadrant somewhere, waiting to be found.
Timo Saloniemi
Edit: I don't know which is more embarrassing, finding out I've been agreeing with a bot, or finding out I've been agreeing with something that Memory Alpha says.
It also stands to reason that, with the Klingons being relied upon as allies, that you would see a smaller Starfleet. Otherwise, if the Federation had to worry about Klingon aggression, as well as the Romulans, AND the Cardassians, AND the other little nasties (Tholians, Gorns, Tzenkethi, what-have-you), then you'd see a much, much larger Starfleet.
Kinda makes you wonder what would happen if the, say, second-season TNG Romulans and Cardassians got together to cause trouble for the Federation, on either side of the Federation...
Kinda makes you wonder what would happen if the, say, second-season TNG Romulans and Cardassians got together to cause trouble for the Federation, on either side of the Federation...
I'd say Starfleet was probably comparable in size to the Romulans, Klingons and Cardassions (sans Dominion) combined just to ensure that they could deal with any conflicts with one of more at any one time. The reason the Federation so actively seeks a peaceful resolution to any situation is that a) the Federation is nice like that and b) a very large portion of the fleet is busy exploring.
This explains why they prefer diplomacy and why they could have such huge fleets during the Dominion war - they just recalled the ships that were out exploring.
This explains why they prefer diplomacy and why they could have such huge fleets during the Dominion war - they just recalled the ships that were out exploring.
I would argue that Starfleet has a fleet of ships to roughly match the numbers of a combined Klingon, Romulan, and Cardassian fleet - not as a specific ship for ship match policy per se, as much as a reflection of the size of the Federation. Clearly, technologically there are some mismatches. The Klingons seem to have more primitive but robust ships, the Romulans more technologically ambitious but cantankerous, and the Cardassians a combination of ruggedness and versatility.
I'd also still argue that, for example, one Borg cube presents a problem is due to the sheer amount of time that it takes to recall starships from their far-flung assignments. Its not that there aren't a lot of them, it's just that the Federation is big, and their ships are everwhere!!
I'd also still argue that, for example, one Borg cube presents a problem is due to the sheer amount of time that it takes to recall starships from their far-flung assignments. Its not that there aren't a lot of them, it's just that the Federation is big, and their ships are everwhere!!
Question:do we know when the conflict with the Cardassians began? Without Cardassian involvement, I see Starfleet actually being somewhat larger around 2340 or so, with concern over the quiet Romulan Neutral Zone increasing, as well as relations with the Klingons getting worse, than it was around 2364, with the Klingons as reasonably solid allies at that time. After the Enterprise-C incident in 2344, when the Klingons at last made peace with the Federation, then I could see a post-Cold War drawdown of ships as (1) the Klingons were less of a potential problem, and (2) shared patrols with the Empire of the Romulan Neutral Zone. But since I don't know when the Cardassians started being a problem, whether they were one right off the bat or whether they had previously coexisted in peace with the Federation (don't remember any mention made of them in TOS, but that doesn't necessarily mean Federation-Cardassian relations didn't exist at that time...), then Starfleet may have been even larger around 2340 if Card problems were going on at that time.
I wonder if Starfleet, like the Cold War-era U.S. military, had a two-wars strategy, where they could take on two opponents separated by a large geographical area, such as the Cardassians in the Alpha Quadrant, and the Romulans in the Beta Quadrant.
I wonder if Starfleet, like the Cold War-era U.S. military, had a two-wars strategy, where they could take on two opponents separated by a large geographical area, such as the Cardassians in the Alpha Quadrant, and the Romulans in the Beta Quadrant.
I don't agree with this notion that Federation is the only super power there. I've been seeing it in quite a few threads and in this one as well. I think that they are comparable to Romulans and Klingons, as per onscreen evidence.
The only reason Klingons can keep up with Starfleet is because they invest so much in military. We see that they are not afraid to take on both Cardassians and Federation in DS9. We hear Sloan say that Klingons will spend the next 10 years rebuilding, while Federation and Romulans will be top dogs in the quadrants. Even Cardassians were not afraid to take on the Federation. At one time or another, they have all been up there in terms of power.
IMO, they are quite comparable militarily.
The only reason Klingons can keep up with Starfleet is because they invest so much in military. We see that they are not afraid to take on both Cardassians and Federation in DS9. We hear Sloan say that Klingons will spend the next 10 years rebuilding, while Federation and Romulans will be top dogs in the quadrants. Even Cardassians were not afraid to take on the Federation. At one time or another, they have all been up there in terms of power.
IMO, they are quite comparable militarily.
