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My TOS shuttlecraft (continued)...

Yeah, I was suggesting a scheme where the ship and the craft sometimes cooperate, sometimes don't. Much like my childhood hero Jacques-Yves Cousteau operated a ship with small onboard dighnies and submarines and helicopters and hovercraft, but also with offboard yachts and larger subs and an assortment of amphibious planes. The Copernicus would be "starbased" rather than ship-based, but still an occasional part of the entourage.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo said:
Yeah, I was suggesting a scheme where the ship and the craft sometimes cooperate, sometimes don't. Much like my childhood hero Jacques-Yves Cousteau operated a ship with small onboard dighnies and submarines and helicopters and hovercraft, but also with offboard yachts and larger subs and an assortment of amphibious planes. The Copernicus would be "starbased" rather than ship-based, but still an occasional part of the entourage.

Timo Saloniemi
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So who, then, crews the smaller vessel? Does it have its own assigned crew, or is it crewed by people permanently assigned to the larger vessel?
 
Much like it resembles the runabout of DS9 in design, it's a vehicle for storytelling of the DS9 sort. There is no doubt a pilot or two at Kirk's disposal for flying this craft, just like he had pilots for his Class F craft, but "crew" is probably too big a word for the personnel needed to run the craft. Essentially, the TOS storytelling continues: Kirk will find any excuse to beam down with the landing party / take a ride in a small craft for a detached mission, and to employ his closest officers as his aides, even though arguably he should have specialist teams for handling both jobs.

It's also another sign that Kirk isn't completely out of reach of Starfleet infrastructure - a fact established in the first season already, with starbases around every corner and with interesting pit stops at UFP installations to complicate the daily lives of our heroes. Every now and then, he can go and pick up exotic new vehicles the way he picks up exotic new yeomen. Runabouts, aquashuttles... Who knows - a wheeled or tracked ground vehicle might appear next.

Although in theory, the Copernicus as shown could also be stowed on the hangar deck. It would simply preclude operation of any other auxiliaries while it's resting there, much like a C-130 on the deck of an aircraft carrier is an interesting nuisance...

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0097.shtml

Timo Saloniemi
 
It doesn't sound practical to me considering distances and such. And how self sufficient can a comparatively small craft be anyway?

At any rate I know there's a sentiment that wants the design to look like the TAS one but it just can't fit on a standard basis in the live-action world of TOS, or unless you believe the Enterprise hangar utilizes Tardis technology. And in the episode the opening spoken reference by Spock is that the Copernicus is an Enterprise shuttlecraft, not a Starbase or Starfleet shuttlecraft.

Over the years I have sketched and sketched and sketched and sketched and pondered at great length to try getting this to work. And it doesn't work. You either have to ignore it or find a way to make it work in a believable way without reinventing what TOS has already established. And I'm sure TOS takes precedence over TAS.

And as I've said before I've come to the conclusion that much of TAS, regarding tech anyway, seems to work mostly as some sort of stylized storyboard for a live-action event. And as with most storyboards the end results are often rather different than what is initially proposed when real considerations come into play.

It would be so much easier to just accept that the "real" world Enterprise shuttlecraft Copernicus is simply a tuned Class F variant. But I just think it would be interesting to envision what some things seen in TAS could have been like if TOS had actually done them.
 
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Warped9 said:
It would be so much easier to just accept that the "real" world Enterprise shuttlecraft Copernicus is simply a tuned Class F variant. But I just think it would be interesting to envision what some things seen in TAS could have been like if TOS had actually done them.
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Agreed. I can also see your issue regarding the range and capabilities of the 'sister ship' approach as Timo proposed.
 
This is the general concept I'm exploring and the shape will evolve. Or more or less be finessed to get the lines and feel I'm reaching for. I've a lot of detailing in my head that isn't represented here such as the nacelle design which will not be a reuse of the familiar look but something rather more distinctive.

The pink line represents the inner hull and at its tallest point in most of the aft part of the craft I'm aiming for a ceiling of 6ft.

I want to tweak the design for a bit more streamlining and lower fore section profile, and this outline doesn't show some of the curves I have in mind. But the outline is scaled to my Class F and here the design is just under 29ft. And it just hit me now, but oddly the fore section evokes a bit of MJ's initial concept for the shuttlecraft although only in side profile.

CHconcept-0.jpg
 
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From this initial draft, it seems as if your going for an evolution towards the movie era shuttles? Looks Kewel! :cool:
 
I began finessing it last night and am slowly trying to get it to look a bit slimmer and more streamlined. Comparing it with the Class F it seems I've got a bit of room to play with in length. It's getting there. Note, too, that the design is a static line drawing without perspective and the effect of light and shadow which would have a wholly more dynamic look right off.

It isn't my intention to establish a connection with the movie era because during TOS' production that wouldn't have been a consideration. I'm just trying to envision something that could have existed believably on the screen alongside what was already there. I'm also trying to imagine what materials they could have had at hand. Okay, in fairness I'm reaching a bit because in all likelihood they'd have just reused the existing Class F mockup, but it's an interesting mental exercise.
 
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Although the nacelles will still be cylindrical with a spherical endcap (although not coloured and lighted) it's the detailing that will set it apart from the familiar TOS design and just hint at the future designs of TMP.

Curiously the main hull of this design is about the size of the Class F overall and so the only real extra length is from the nacelles' overhang aft. My final length could well be under 29ft. and closer to 28 or 28.5ft. Good, but we'll see.
 
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A snapshot of a work in progress. The side and bow profiles are established and will help shape the top plan to be followed by further detailing as it progresses. As it is a 5'-10" crewman could just clear walking under the nacelles protruding aft since the ship will sit just a bit higher than it is now because of the landing pads I've yet to add. The warp nacelles are established in form overall although I will be finessing the details.

It still looks a bit stubby, but it looks sleeker with shadowing and perspective. Actually so does the Class F. I could lengthen it a bit out to 29ft., but I'd rather keep it as short as possible as long as it doesn't look stupidly short.

And comparing this to the Class F construction drawings I don't think this would have been any more difficult to construct as a fullsize mockup even at reduced scale and perhaps a few small compromises here and there.

CHconcept-0a.jpg
 
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The forthcoming detailing should visually lengthen it as well. One of the things I like (if I may say so) is that although it doesn't look like the TAS design it does incorporate many of the TAS design's elements so that it is conceptually similar.

And like how I drew the Class F it has something of a forced perspective, pitched forward look integrated into it.
 
I am really impressed with the design. I do see some of TAS as well as TOS design linage and it definately is very distinct from the Class F. Keep up the great work and I will be looking forward to more updates. :techman:
 
I'm going to talk to someone I know about perhaps rendering a 3D model of this design. It would be fun to make some fictional screencaps of this with the original live-action characters added for "real" images of "The Slaver Weapon."
 
A snapshot of incremental progress. All the major elements are in place (excepting the still to be drawn forward landing assembly and the nacelle support struts) and the overall design established. I still want to play with the leading and trailing edges of the stabilizer/supports as I'm not really satisfied with it as is. Beyond this it's mostly detailing, the final being the signage.

I rather like how it looks kinda TAS from the top, TOS from the front and back and an amalgam of both from the side. And the nacelles have a hint of TMP to them. Candidly I was somewhat skeptical initially that I could come up with something decent looking within such a tight size constraint.

CHconcept-0b.jpg


I'm also considering integrating running lights into the stabilizers and a bow light on the leading edge of the bow. And rather than having the aft access hatch dead centre in the rear I'm thinking of offsetting it to one side.
 
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Hoover DAM, that's kewel!

P.S. Check out the Drex Files, there's an article about the Galileo with a rare concept pic (I've seen before but never in such detail). Speaking of which, Warped9, have you ever considered adding such details, as seen there, to any of your shuttles?
 
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As they say the devil is in the details. Too much detailing and the ship wouldn't look TOS like. It's a balancing act.

My initial concept for this had a sloping forward hull similar to the Class F, but I didn't think it looked fresh enough or rather looked too derivative.

SizeComparison-CH1.jpg


I've since corrected the leading and trailing edges of the stabilizer/supports and now I'm satisfied with them. I've also added the impulse detailing under the stabilizers seen in the aft view. I've also tweaked some detailing on the nacelles with more to come.
 
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