If this succeeds, they're never going back. If it fails, there's no back to go back to.
To Accept or Not to Accept
- Thread starter hal9500
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If this succeeds, they're never going back. If it fails, there's no back to go back to.
Oh but all of those books will vanish into a temporal/quantum/alternate reality once May rolls around.
That works for me, through the looking glass kind of thing, You could have Star Trek episodes and movies for hte next 40 years based on this new timeline with the occasional episode where they jump over to the original timeline :-P
I can live with that.
I can live with that.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Who the hell are you to judge my ability to evaluate anything? (I'm in my 40s, btw.)
Not Accept: Folks in their thirties and forties are less perceptive, talented or clever than older people, and their values less admirable.
Nevertheless, I'll object to the Georgia boy being being unfairly labeled as a "racist" every time.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Thinking in the way of movies and television matters not. In fact, Enterprise shows you the very thing goes for television as much as books and any other story telling. If they had USED what we know canonically, continuity-wise of the 22nd century; we would have gotten an extremely primitive ship, that probably needed to drop out of warp every other few lightyears to get a rebearing or go massively of course; no turbo lifts, no transporters, either at all, or at all no human transporting, IF there is people transporting, and they get caught in a transporter problem they DIE and don't get saved; in fact, some should die even if they are not caught in any perceivable transporter problem, especially those repeatedly using it. There would be no phase cannons, or phase pistols, there very well could be that there's no laser pistols even, the reason given would be; can't miniaturize power source enough to make it more efficient than normal guns. And euphemistic spatial torpedoes? Hell no, straight to your face, nuclear weapons. There'd be no food processors, no real food at all, just artificial cubes.
There would be no hint of any even remotely like a non-interference policy at all, not even from Vulcans and other aliens. And Archer would be SCREWING UP; as it was said in later shows, rules and regulations and ways of doing things came about through the mistakes of the first few Federation exploration missions.
Result; a Star Trek show so vastly different from any other Star Trek show, you wouldn't even recognize it as Star Trek at first. It would have been a vast change, with a darker, less "space is so fun" and a more "space is dangerous" tone. It would have been exactly what Star Trek needed.
Alas, they didn't bother with continuity and produced Voyager 2.0 aka The Next Generation 3.0; carbon copy, exact same thing as all that came before. Exactly what Star Trek did NOT need.
3D Master, How do you know the actual technology level of the ships in the 22nd Century?
So far, the only indication of technology being that primitive was basically the "Nuclear Rockets" (I think the term was) referenced in Balance of Terror.
AFAIK, that's actually all that was established in that realm.
So far, the only indication of technology being that primitive was basically the "Nuclear Rockets" (I think the term was) referenced in Balance of Terror.
AFAIK, that's actually all that was established in that realm.
I usually find your posts full of crap, but I actually agreed with all of that.
Both Enterprise and Voyager reminded me of someone who's trying to quit drugs, did okay for a couple weeks, and then fell off the wagon back into old habits. Both shows had an excellent premise, but it seems they couldn't get a very far in (maybe a season) before (it seems) the writers decided "this is too hard, let's pull out the TNG playbook, we know how to do that." Too bad Enterprise got cancelled just as someone up at Paramount realized they were doing a Star Trek prequel.
Enterprise seemed worse because the first three seasons, it seemed like they had no idea what direction they wanted to take the show -- at all. It reminded me of Microsoft, seeing what other people do and then trying to do it without having a clue. "Wow, other people do story arcs, let's try that" without realizing that you actually have to have a story.
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As to canon and continuity in general, the youtube videos posted earlier in this thread illustrate perfectly that the writers for Star Trek couldn't keep a plot thread straight from one minute to the next. It was actually somewhat terrible to be honest. The only real consistent 'canon', it appears, was all made up by fans over the last 40 years.
The writers for Star Trek from TOS on never cared about "canon" with the possible exception of DS9. From what I can tell, those writers were there for a paycheck and nothing more.
What we know about the 22nd Century from the canon would barely fill a commercial break. Little if any of your ideas are from the series or the movies. Its just stuff you think would be cool.
So what Star Trek needs is to stop being Star Trek? Then why call it Star Trek? Not sure thats the best approach.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Nope.
Spock, Balance of Terror: "the Earth-Romulan conflict a century ago.
As you may recall, this conflict was fought,
by standards today,
with primitive atomic weapons
and in primitive space vessels
which allowed no quarter,
no captives,
nor was there even ship-to-ship visual communication."
Now, does that describe the NX-01? Hell no, the NX-01 could easily have captured Romulans; aka beamed them aboard, and locked them up. Further, now "allowing quarter", aka show mercy, not kill everyone, describes a ship that had no escape mechanisms, and opposing ships that could not disable ships without blowing them up. Does this describe the NX-01? Of course not; plenty of ways to escape it, plenty of ways of pinpoint accuracy with their newest toys phasers; oops I mean phase cannons; plenty of ways with our shields (oops I mean polarized hullplating) slowly dropping to 95%, 91%, 79%, to survive a battle.
The ships desribed by Spock are primitive hunks of junks.
Then there's our lovely 22nd century time traveler that got his hands on a future timeship and came to Picard; the things he took to be reverse-engineered were all things that Enterprise mostly already had, although slightly more primitive. So from him too, we know they didn't have these things.
And I absolutely laugh at people attempting to defend Enterprise, especially here. Enterprise was horrible, plain and simple; even friggin' fans of Enterprise have never claimed it was good, hell, of the first seasons they outright say it was bad.
Enterprise was a carbon copy of TNG and Voyager, and everyone knows it; exactly the the thing Star Trek didn't need; ANOTHER tired, exactly the same show. It's the very thing all the JJ Trek supporters claim is the reason JJ Trek Wars is a good thing.
But oh! Watch out if what Enterprise did, or did not do, is actually used as an example that the JJ could have stuck to continuity and produced an equally good and even better movie; oh, no, then Enterprise is the greatest show on Earth!
Man I get confused over whos talking to who when I see me being quoted with someone elses responce beneath that with the final responce beneath that... *calls the time agency to sort it out*
Holy fuck, I'm agreeing with you!!!!
But seriously, this movie seems to do everything right that VOY and ENT (apart from season 3 and four) fucked up.
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
Holy fuck, I'm agreeing with you!!!!
But seriously, this movie seems to do everything right that VOY and ENT (apart from season 3 and four) fucked up.
No, it's changing everything that didn't need changing, puts in utterly ridiculous things like an Enterprise being built on the ground and all the consequences there of, and everything that did need changing, isn't changed at all.
Tell me, have you ever read the novel A Flag Full of Stars ?
Holy fuck, I'm agreeing with you!!!!
But seriously, this movie seems to do everything right that VOY and ENT (apart from season 3 and four) fucked up.
No, it's changing everything that didn't need changing, puts in utterly ridiculous things like an Enterprise being built on the ground and all the consequences there of, and everything that did need changing, isn't changed at all.
Rii
Rear Admiral
Just curious, what are those things that you think did need changing that aren't being changed?
trevanian
Rear Admiral
I have, and while it is pretty good (I've read the untampered-with version as well), the 'saucer getting fixed up on ground' aspect is just a gimmick there. In a sense it is a variation on the more impressive gimmick the same author used on his earlier book, when he brings the Enterprise down out of orbit to hover over Kirk's home on Centaurus.
Canon killed the radio star. In other words, Paramount doesn't care about original or traditional fans anymore. We've been left behind because of the griping and complaining and unwillingness to go with the flow. They're boldly going...
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