Q.E.D. Case closed. Now we can all go to bed.
To Accept or Not to Accept
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Q.E.D. Case closed. Now we can all go to bed.
I occasionally post at the Star Trek Online forums. I'm trying to decide whether the canon freaks there or here are worse. It's pretty ugly both places.
Anyway, when canon has apparently become so restrictive that developers can't post a screenshot of an asteroid without certain fans flying off the handle screaming about how canon is violated and this isn't Star Trek, it's time to stop giving a shit. Even if you try to make those people happy, you never will.
Anyway, when canon has apparently become so restrictive that developers can't post a screenshot of an asteroid without certain fans flying off the handle screaming about how canon is violated and this isn't Star Trek, it's time to stop giving a shit. Even if you try to make those people happy, you never will.
It would be nice to think that they placed this as an inscription over the doors of the JJTrek production offices.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
If that is the actual wording and content, they clearly think they can have their cake, eat it too, and then beam it out of their intestine before it hits their thighs and love handles.
Alternate realities aren't unprecedented in Trek. The pre-Yesterday's Enterprise universe (sans Sela) is not the same one as the slightly altered post-Sela one. And then there's Data's little speech in Parallels (Anything that can happen in the universe, does happen). i see no problem with fitting JJs universe into the multiverse of Trek timelines.
I gather this has been argued to death and I understand if anyone laughs at my attempt to "explain" it when many greater minds have tried. But I'm a newbie here and I'm just mystified at some of the posts. Move on to the next post if you can't stand to hear it again:
According to quantum theory, at every decision point in our lives we theoretically create another, parallel, timeline.
I decided to join the military from ages 18 to 24. Because it was possible for me to not join, there must also be a version of myself who didn't do it. (As was pointed out: If it can happen, it does in some timeline.) If it were possible for me to observe civilian M'benga's life, I might see him in a situation different from my own. He'd be wearing different clothes and maybe have a different job or spouse and have different experiences. But he'd still be me. Just Parallel Me!
It's called parallel because it exists side-by-side, concurrently - however you want to put it. There's no "destruction" involved. Believe me, I'm still here and my bills still need paying.
All JJ&Co are doing is showing us one of the paths that wasn't taken in TOS but was in this timeline. TOS remains unfazed and probably has no clue this one is going on. It takes not one second of "history" away from any Star Trek incarnation.
Yes, that is having your cake and eating it, too. And pretty darned interesting to boot.
According to quantum theory, at every decision point in our lives we theoretically create another, parallel, timeline.
I decided to join the military from ages 18 to 24. Because it was possible for me to not join, there must also be a version of myself who didn't do it. (As was pointed out: If it can happen, it does in some timeline.) If it were possible for me to observe civilian M'benga's life, I might see him in a situation different from my own. He'd be wearing different clothes and maybe have a different job or spouse and have different experiences. But he'd still be me. Just Parallel Me!
It's called parallel because it exists side-by-side, concurrently - however you want to put it. There's no "destruction" involved. Believe me, I'm still here and my bills still need paying.
All JJ&Co are doing is showing us one of the paths that wasn't taken in TOS but was in this timeline. TOS remains unfazed and probably has no clue this one is going on. It takes not one second of "history" away from any Star Trek incarnation.
Yes, that is having your cake and eating it, too. And pretty darned interesting to boot.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
All this demonstrates is that this is still a reboot -- just one with a sci-fi rationalization, no more compelling than the arbitrary Nexus of GENERATIONS, instead of the shut-up-and-take-it we get with Bond (ughh) and Batman (GREAT.)
A
Amaris
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
And where exactly did anyone claim they can't deal with new actors, hmm? Nowhere, that's where. We couldn't care less about new actors. New actors: good. The problem is, that they had to wipe the previous away instead of ADDING to it. There were plenty of ways, amazing ways, they could have made a story we haven't seen yet with new actors, without removing the old in a convoluted time travel bullshit.Checkov's first stardate, is before a stardate that of an episode before Space Seed. Going by stardate, Checkov was indeed on board the Enterprise when Kahn was there.
It's not an asset, it's a detriment. I'm a Star Trek fan, not Star Wars fan, and Trek Wars is even less my interest.
But only if you're against JJ Abrams. If you're pro-Abrams you can insult, be rude, and be repetitive beyond all repetition all over the place and get nothing.
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Rii
Rear Admiral
I hope the writers didn't take the time travel/parallel universe route specifically to create an in-universe explanation for canon violations in this and future productions. If that was a significant factor in the conception of the story, rather than an incidental benefit thereof, we're all screwed. The canonites won't accept it regardless, and those who don't care about canon are saddled with an unnecessarily convoluted film.
Yeah, to be honest, I wish they had just went whole hog. Create a new look, a new style, a new everything with these guys. Don't explain yourselves with time travel. Don't explain anything, don't even bother mentioning there is another Kirk or another Spock or another Scotty.
Just do your film, make it good, make it straightforward, give it an edge, do as you want, just don't try to appease John Q. Fan.
Just say 'this is our movie, this is our story, you dig?'
Just do your film, make it good, make it straightforward, give it an edge, do as you want, just don't try to appease John Q. Fan.
Just say 'this is our movie, this is our story, you dig?'
To be blunt, the vast majority of Trek is already an altered timeline. "Yesterdays Enterprise" created Sela, a permanent change as she did not exist previously. If she had stayed out of the way and had little impact maybe, but she became a high ranking military officer in the Romulan fleet and made several large scale attempts against Vulcan and the Federation, which means ever since that episode we've been watching a largely altered timeline.
The Tholian Web took place *after* Mirror, Mirror. The next time we see the Mirror Universe isn't until DS9 when we see a very different state of affairs, possibly as a result of the Defiant being thrown back and creating the IaMD scenario. The MU we see in Mirror, Mirror would have been before the Defiant was sent back. So theres a possibility that both the regular and Mirror universes are really not how they're meant to be.
The Tholian Web took place *after* Mirror, Mirror. The next time we see the Mirror Universe isn't until DS9 when we see a very different state of affairs, possibly as a result of the Defiant being thrown back and creating the IaMD scenario. The MU we see in Mirror, Mirror would have been before the Defiant was sent back. So theres a possibility that both the regular and Mirror universes are really not how they're meant to be.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Oh? How do you know that?
Hence why Enterprise is derided as apocryphal bullshit that should be forgotten as soon as possible.
Oh come on, Tasha died during season 1 and Guinan herself who seems to know when things have changed and knew more keenly than anything else that Tasha should not be there. In the original timeline the Enterprise-C was destroyed with no Tasha aboard hence no Sela. The rift changed history by having Tasha aboard and for some reason, the crew now being captured.
As for your stance on Enterprise, is simply your opinion, the series and its events are canon and would lend some credence to the sudden change in the MU between the TOS and DS9 visit beyond what Kirk started.
As for your stance on Enterprise, is simply your opinion, the series and its events are canon and would lend some credence to the sudden change in the MU between the TOS and DS9 visit beyond what Kirk started.
OK, I was going to read this thread to the newest post, but I'll interject right now. Look: the writers have said that ST09 is both kind of a reboot and also a sequel to what's come before. And from what i know of the story, this seems accurate. And to quote another J.J. Abrams production: "What happened, happened." Meaning: A ship called Enterprise was on a five-year mission. Spock died and got resurrected, the Enterprise was destroyed. Then they got a new one. Decades later, there was a guy called Picard who captained a new Enterprise, was a Borg for some time and drank lots of tea. And who also witnessed James Kirk's death. There was a space station that became integral in a huge war, and a ship called Voyager was lost in space and eventually came home. The last thing we saw was Picard's android buddy Data sacrifice himself to save Earth from a warmonger with a huge... starship. AND NOW, the next chapter involves (I assume) some disaster which prompts a Romulan to go back in time to change all that, Spock follows, and we go on a second go-around along this timeline, except that maybe things turn out differently this time. The future thus happens in the past.
Actually, a lot more realistic take on time travel. How many times has something changed the past (The Borg in FC for example), the crew goes back to fix it, but magically, despite interjecting themselves into events they couldn't originally have been a part of, they return in the end to an entirely unchanged present. It makes more sense if the time-travel itself changes history.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
The moment you have time travel, you no longer have before or after. Tasha could have always arrived in the past, could have always had a daughter, and that daughter could have existed, even as Tasha was killed by an oil monster.
I don't care.
The whole point, is that the crew goes back, to STOP the change from occurring.
Then you shouldn't reply.
Yes, and change ended up happening anyway since the Borg attacked earth. Though in all fairness, though we didn't see the change ourselves doesn't mean it is impossible for it to happen still, and there should have been a few changes IMHO (well I guess we did see them in Enterprise.)
Which is the point I was trying to make. Except now maybe there are more changes. Doesn't mean that Kirk & co. will not go on to encounter, say, V'Ger or meet Khan or travel back in time themselves to let Edith Keeler die, or drown in Tribbles on station K-7....
I dearly hope there will be no small groups of picketers opening day... talk about killing Trek... 
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