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To Accept or Not to Accept

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Isn't this just a knee-jerk reaction to a change in what has been so deeply embraced? Some people just can't pull themselves away from accepting anyone else but William Shatner as Captain Kirk. But guess what? People age and eventually die. So does that put a moratorium on any recreations? Certainly not. Yes, you'll want sufficient time to pass before recreating the character. How long that is depends upon the genre. We've certainly seen movies recreated and when very good actors create their own interpretations of previously portrayed roles, they are embraced.

It's time for a new generation of actors to revisit the original series. This does not take away from anything. It adds. There's no disruption of timelines. This is a new story with new people, based on a tried and true genre that is loved by millions.

We've already seen in going from one Star Trek series to the next that there's a limit to the integrity of continuity. If you try to make it all seamless with everything accounted for, you get mired down in details and never get anywhere. Because each series and movie has their own writers and production crews, there has to be some artistic license. Sure, you want to keep it reasonable with no horribly glaring conflicts. But sometimes you have to suspend disbelief for a bit. As an example, remember Chekov meeting Khan, as if they had met previously on NCC-1701? It was a noticeable violation of the timeline. Chekov was not aboard then. But this apparent violation still worked, didn't it?

Btw, I think it unlikely that the production of ST:XI will be converted to a TV series. There may be several sequels... but that will be it. TOS has the huge legacy of movies and TV series that followed it and relied upon TOS established facts. We can look at this new enactement in essence as a "What If", further "preserving" the TOS universe.


So, really there's no logic to not accepting the new Star Trek movie. If you choose not to, then you're just depriving yourself from a new asset of the Star Trek phenomenon.
 
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When I was little my mom made buttermilk pancakes.

They were the best pancakes in the world.

Years later I was introduced to blueberry pancakes.

See, blueberry pancakes have...blueberries in them.

I like blueberries. One of my favorite fruits.

Buttermilk pancakes don't have blueberries in them.

That does not make them inferior in any way to blueberry pancakes. I like asparagus, too, and asparagus recipes generally lack blueberries without being any the worse for it.

Quite often, these days, when I order pancakes at a restaurant I order blueberry pancakes.

Sometimes, though, I order plain buttermilk pancakes.

They still don't have blueberries in them. They're still quite good.
 
Do you like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with cinimmin? cause that's what we're gonna get. mmm.
 
When I was little my mom made buttermilk pancakes.

They were the best pancakes in the world.

Years later I was introduced to blueberry pancakes.

See, blueberry pancakes have...blueberries in them.

I like blueberries. One of my favorite fruits.

Buttermilk pancakes don't have blueberries in them.

That does not make them inferior in any way to blueberry pancakes. I like asparagus, too, and asparagus recipes generally lack blueberries without being any the worse for it.

Quite often, these days, when I order pancakes at a restaurant I order blueberry pancakes.

Sometimes, though, I order plain buttermilk pancakes.

They still don't have blueberries in them. They're still quite good.

I think Your analogy should have finished with...,

...That this movie will be more like getting Buttermilk Pancakes with Blueberries in them!

Personally, I like Waffles better!!:p
 
I don't identify much with the youth of today -I've never stolen a car, or done drugs, but I can see the point of this film.
 
Well, see, the thing is...

There are a lot of places that sell buttermilk pancakes.

They aren't the same as the pancakes my mom made five decades ago, though.

I really, really want to find a place that makes buttermilk pancakes exactly the way my mom did.

I try not to get angry that no one does that. Also, I try to remember that I'd have to be five years old to enjoy them the way I did when I was five years old.

Once in a while...I have a pancake and I'm pretty sure that I'm enjoying it more than I did the buttermilk pancakes that my mom made when I was five. That makes me feel kind of bad and I pretend that it's not so until the feeling goes away. ;)
 
I don't identify much with the youth of today -I've never stolen a car, or done drugs, but I can see the point of this film.

You know, the youth of today just doesn't show the enthusiasm for either stealing cars or taking drugs that kids of my generation growing up in the 1950s and 1960s did.

Remember, they coined the term "juvenile delinquent" just for the generation that grew up on TOS. There were just so damned many of us Boomers.

Car theft in particular is a terribly mercenary grind now; it just lacks the carefree elan of the joyrides youthful thieves indulged in back when Detroit knew how to manufacture sexy, fun and powerful cars.

Now it's all about resale for parts. Kids steal Honda Accords for the chop value, not the fun of it. Car theft has gone corporate. :(

And I'm not sure anyone is more dedicated to their recreational drug use than Gene Roddenberry was. :lol:
 
In response to the Academic,

You are NOT alone, so stop pretending being the only upright warrior left standing on a battlefield, surrounded by enemies. As far as I see it, EVERY Trekkie appreciates Star Trek's continuing timeline - particularly me, since I am a historian by profession.

Well as a fellow history buff I have to say I would worry for the students in your class with quotes like that, you sound more like a radical historical Revisionist. Now I don't mind revisiting history myself and every generation puts its on spin on things, but as far as I am concerned this film's direction has taken way too many liberties. Isn't history best presented in a way that makes one come to have a better understanding of the past? If (and I know its only Sci-Fi) the people behind this new movie continue to fail to address consistency issues then a lot of us who grew up with TOS era are not even going to be able to visually recognize the Star Trek universe this film is supposedly set in. JJ Abrams was an extremely poor choice for director, he openly states he is not a fan and is working with set designers and others who also admit they are unaware of the original series. Would you or any history prof try to put an accurate historical record together with people who have no interest in history or academic research? In a sense this is what is going on with the production of this new movie. I think we all here grew up with the original, so many of us have a strong attachment to the characters and look of TOS and so far to date I haven't seen anything in the trailer that can truely be asociated with that era of the series.
 
Starship, I can honestly say I have never met anyone like you.

You're the only person I've ever met who can watch Star Trek and not see, or disagree with, the morality in ST.

Yes, kids probably stole cars in the 60's, but, not counting the 'wild one', in films,they were antiheroes and did not go on to be heroes.

There are thousands, if not millions of people who have done more drugs than GR and have not, in compensation, contributed one iota to the human struggle, as GR did by making a TV show that said we were going to be here in 300 years time and not in a radio-active waste hell.

Judging by what I see and read and hear, some people today are more concerned with their own fate, not humanity's and seem mostly to be concerned about what'sin it for them.
 
My suggestion is to watch New Voyages - the fan film. It's pretty good. But J.J. has totally obliterated continuity.
 
Well as a fellow history buff I have to say I would worry for the students in your class with quotes like that, you sound more like a radical historical Revisionist. Now I don't mind revisiting history myself and every generation puts its on spin on things, but as far as I am concerned this film's direction has taken way too many liberties. Isn't history best presented in a way that makes one come to have a better understanding of the past?

[highlight]STAR TREK IS FAKE[/highlight]

3352276178_380fb0b9bc.jpg
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*heavy mouth-breathing*
 
Yes, kids probably stole cars in the 60's...

Probably? :lol:

but, not counting the 'wild one', in films,they were antiheroes and did not go on to be heroes.

In real life some of them went to reform school, some to jail. Some became accountants, and some became decorated war veterans. Way too many wound up as cannon fodder.

Look, you jumped in here with a post that amounted to nothing more or better than an oblique, resentful slam at people younger than you. You think I'm supposed to be impressed by your "reasoning?"

If you think that you're in some way pursuing Roddenberry's "ideals" in your life you ought to take a good long look at those resentments and fuss less about the "car-stealing/drug-taking" younger generation who you imagine that this movie is aimed at.

^Would you like us to get off your lawn now sir?

;)

And stay away from the Torino! Damn hippies!
 
@Gep: You do know that throughout Sonic Unleashed, Sonic manages to keep his "normal" personality in Were-hog form and not act like a Werewolf? I get your point however but using an image of a character that retains his full composure and umm...not Humanity but you know what I mean even in that form is erroneous.
 
^Uhh you do know that throughout Sonic Unleashed, Sonic manages to keep his "normal" personality in Were-hog form and not act like a Werewolf? I get your point however but using an image of a character that retains his full composure and umm...not Humanity but you know what I mean even in that form is erroneous.

It was the only image I could find that had the shambling monster attitude I was going for.

Gods. Even Sonic fans.... :lol:
 
Now I don't mind revisiting history myself and every generation puts its on spin on things, but as far as I am concerned this film's direction has taken way too many liberties. Isn't history best presented in a way that makes one come to have a better understanding of the past?


There is no history involved here - just older versions of stories; older continuity. No conversation based on the premise that we should treat Star Trek as if the events in it are equivalent to actual history can be worthwhile.

^Uhh you do know that throughout Sonic Unleashed, Sonic manages to keep his "normal" personality in Were-hog form and not act like a Werewolf? I get your point however but using an image of a character that retains his full composure and umm...not Humanity but you know what I mean even in that form is erroneous.

It was the only image I could find that had the shambling monster attitude I was going for.

Gods. Even Sonic fans.... :lol:

Dude, don't frak with the Sonic canon!
 
^Uhh you do know that throughout Sonic Unleashed, Sonic manages to keep his "normal" personality in Were-hog form and not act like a Werewolf? I get your point however but using an image of a character that retains his full composure and umm...not Humanity but you know what I mean even in that form is erroneous.

It was the only image I could find that had the shambling monster attitude I was going for.

Gods. Even Sonic fans.... :lol:

I've literally been a Sonic fan for the same length of time I've been a Trekkie and know the canon to both so yeah. :lol:
 
Yes, kids probably stole cars in the 60's...

Probably? :lol:

but, not counting the 'wild one', in films,they were antiheroes and did not go on to be heroes.

In real life some of them went to reform school, some to jail. Some became accountants, and some became decorated war veterans. Way too many wound up as cannon fodder.

Look, you jumped in here with a post that amounted to nothing more or better than an oblique, resentful slam at people younger than you. You think I'm supposed to be impressed by your "reasoning?"

If you think that you're in some way pursuing Roddenberry's "ideals" in your life you ought to take a good long look at those resentments and worry less about the "car-stealing/drug-taking" younger generation who you imagine that this movie is aimed at.

^Would you like us to get off your lawn now sir?

;)

And stay away from the Torino! Damn hippies!
Hey Kirk stole a car in "A Piece of the Action" and Spock stole an entire Starship "The Menagerie". Stealing is kewl.
 
"We made this film not for Trekkies but for future fans of Star Trek." - J.J. Abrams (actual quote)


What if JJ was to re-make other classic shows/movies....hmm...his future quotes might just sound like this...


"We made this film not for Batman fans but for future fans of Batman." - J.J. Abrams

"We made this film not for Spiderman fans but for future fans of Spiderman." - J.J. Abrams

"We made this film not for Bond fans but for future fans of Bond, James Bond." - J.J. Abrams

"We made this film not for Star Wars fans but for future fans of Star Wars."
 
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