Lost 5x08: "LaFleur"

[Capt. Vulcan]

Gave it an above average. Aside from the constant "three years ago" "three years from now" crap, I thought it was a really good episode. Sawyer was pretty clever throughout, finally putting his con-artist past to good use. Not only that, but this is one of the few times when someone bothered to remember what's been going on on the island and used it to their advantage!

I didn't really think they could come up with a decent reason for the lost in time crew to end up as dharma goons, but they did it. We got some more insight in to the dharma people, a view of the statue, and some mysterious stuff from richard. I wonder how he deals with the new info from sawyer? Seeing Charlotte as a child was kind of predictable.

 

[Mr Light]

I dunno if this is an original idea, but it occurred to me that The Incident is going to be when the time-travelers use the Orchid/Swan to return to the present, which will make the Swan go screwy, and probably also create the infertility problem (since Amy gave birth fine in 1977).

 

[Gertch]

I dunno if this is an original idea, but it occurred to me that The Incident is going to be when the time-travelers use the Orchid/Swan to return to the present, which will make the Swan go screwy, and probably also create the infertility problem (since Amy gave birth fine in 1977).

I like that idea.

I'm hoping though that the baby issues are due to Ben (and Others) releasing the gas and causing the issue. Being obsessed with reversing that condition he helped cause would humanize him a bit and reveal a vulnerability.

 

[jamestyler]

I had the same thought as Mr Light, based around Faraday.

Although a few people ave said they thought the mumbling was Charlotte related, I'm hoping there's something more to it.

Thats where I think the story conflict could become interesting for Faraday.

He's the guy that really knows about time travel and believes or knows that he has a set path laid out for him. But then... he could begin to lose faith in that, or open his mind to the idea of choosing to try change that path. Even if Lost doesn't go too over the edge with time travel conflict and stays within the idea that time can't be changed they could still get into the idea of Faraday entertaining the idea of changing it for the greater good. But then choosing not to do it.

Or it could be that he chooses to try and change the past and ends up being responsible for something bad happening that had always happened. Say, for example, the childbirth issue.

That's a stretch... but it'd be an interesting concept for Faraday.

 

[Gertch]

Man, I love reading all these theories!

 

[Zulu Romeo]

The Swan orientation film was made in 1980, according to Lostpedia (as I don't have the DVDs handy to recall). So it's extremely likely that our favourite DHARMA infiltrators and Oceanic survivors back in 1977 are linked to the cause of the Incident. I wonder even if it has something to do with the old Frozen Donkey Wheel (and related to the beginning of "Because You Left"), as its powers appeared very similar to the Discharge at the end of season 2.

Speaking of 1977, I wonder if during the DHARMA years we'll see "Jim" make a Star Wars-related quip and have some of the DHARMA employees give him a strange few looks...

 

[Mr Light]

Hmm that's interesting... Sawyer's group arrive at Dharma in 1974... 3 years later the Oceanic Five arrive... 3 years later the Incident Video is made... coincidence? Maybe what they do in 1977 jumps them forward to 1980 where the disaster happens before they jump to present day, or their actions in 1977 actually have the disastrous consequences surface in 1980 because of the time dilation. It'd be kinda funny if Chang thinks the place is gonna blow when the Losties use the time travel in 1977 but then nothing happens... only for it to happen 3 years later!

 

[Zulu Romeo]

It's possible the Incident actually occurs in 1977 itself, allowing the DHARMA Initiative three years to either build the Swan from scratch or adapt it with a computer and button and clock etc. in time for the Orientation film to be made in 1980.

 

[Capt. Vulcan]

Well if that statue is supposed to be the goddess of fertility, maybe it's destruction is what leads to women not being able to give birth.

 

[Brent]

Well if that statue is supposed to be the goddess of fertility, maybe it's destruction is what leads to women not being able to give birth.

The timelines don't match up though. The statue looks like it was long gone before Dharma got there, and in last weeks episode the baby was able to be born just fine.

I think it is something that happened because of Dharma, maybe their experiments on the island caused it, or the gassing by Ben and the Others.

 

[chrisspringob]

OK, here's a question:

In the three years that Sawyer and friends have been working for Dharma, have they actually gained any information about what Dharma is, and what they're doing on the Island, and what the nature of their conflict with the Hostiles is? In a rational world, the answer would be yes, but, knowing Lost, I'm kind of pessimistic on that score.

I love Lost, but one aspect of the story that I just find incredibly silly is the sheer number of characters we keep running into who must have at least some of the answers to the big questions (Ben, Widmore, Hawking, the Others, Dharma), yet who never ever give up any useful information.

I guess we'll find out in two weeks.

 

[Brent]

I agree, they aren't too good at sharing notes with each other. If I were working for Dharma, I would sure be learning as much as possible.

A couple of things make me believe they have learned a lot though. For one, Sawyer is in Security, in fact head of security. He said they were searching the island for their people in "grids." So this makes me believe that Saywer and company now have a pretty good layout of the island, they know where things are, all the Dharma stations, and what geographical features the island contains. Also, Farady is most likely (since we saw him in a past episode) working at The Orchid. He could have picked up on a lot of information there. Being in something for 3 years, you are going to pick up on a lot of stuff. I am sure they've been around to the other Dharma stations, maybe even The Flame and seen outside transmissions.

 

[chrisspringob]

I agree, they aren't too good at sharing notes with each other. If I were working for Dharma, I would sure be learning as much as possible.

A couple of things make me believe they have learned a lot though. For one, Sawyer is in Security, in fact head of security. He said they were searching the island for their people in "grids." So this makes me believe that Saywer and company now have a pretty good layout of the island, they know where things are, all the Dharma stations, and what geographical features the island contains. Also, Farady is most likely (since we saw him in a past episode) working at The Orchid. He could have picked up on a lot of information there. Being in something for 3 years, you are going to pick up on a lot of stuff. I am sure they've been around to the other Dharma stations, maybe even The Flame and seen outside transmissions.

Oh, I agree. Going by the standards of real life, it's unrealistic to expect that anyone would work for some organization for three years and have that kind of status in it, yet still not know what the purpose of the organization is, and what it's doing on the Island. All I'm saying is that, given Lost's track record on this kind of thing, I'm not taking it as a given that they've applied the logic of real life here.

Also, I don't really count "the Dharma stations, and what geographical features the island contains" as that important. I'm talking about "What is the Dharma Initiative? How did they know about the Island? What are they doing on the Island? What do they know about the Hostiles, and why are they in conflict with them?" as the relevant questions, which Sawyer and the others *should* know by know. Or even if some of that stuff is being kept secret by higher ups, those higher ups should have at least fed them some kind of convincing cover story by now. No one in real life would just accept "Don't ask those kind of questions" as an answer.....at least not for that long a period of time.

 

[Gertch]

I wonder when the Orchid is built. What year is it when Daniel is shown there? If it's around the start of the 3 years period, does Miles run into his younger self if that is indeed him?

 

[chrisspringob]

Someone on another board pointed out that what would be really messed up would be if young Ben ends up meeting Juliet, and develops a crush on her, which leads to his obsessive behavior with her when he's an adult.

Heck, maybe Ben still harbors resentment towards Sawyer for his relationship with Juliet, and that led to him including Sawyer on the list of people to be kidnapped at the end of Season 2.

 

[Crewman47]

Has Sawyer and Juliet actually met Ben and his Dad yet cause according to the Lost timeline on Lostpedia there supposed to have arrived on the Island a few years before 1974 and Ben was more or less always based at the Barracks while his Dad did his job?

I'm also curious as to what happened to the other 815 survivors and if any of them has survived there trips through time. It was actually comforting knowing that the Sawyer and Jin still actually think about them and haven't forgotten about them.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

One more thing that worries me about this episode: if Horace paired up with the lonely widow as seen in this episode, what about his relationship with Olivia?

 

[ITL]

I wonder if Sawyer and friends can be seen in the background of the Ben flashback episode?

Hmmm....

 

[Zulu Romeo]

I wonder if Sawyer and friends can be seen in the background of the Ben flashback episode?

Hmmm....

You know they'll retcon that eventually (in the same way as they brought in Sun and eventually Ana-Lucia in Jack's airport fuss scene with Jin in the background from season 1) in a future episode... I for one can't wait.

 

[ITL]

Yup!

But it would be really cool if they were put in there two seasons ago....