I've determined that Marvel has superior villains than DC

[Norrin Radd]

On a whim, I made a list of about 60 of the most prominent DC villains and 60 of the most prominent Marvel villains. I randomized the lists.

Going down the lists, I played an "elimination game", pitting the popularity and presence of each successive DC villain against each successive Marvel villain. I honestly tried to be as objective as I could.

After the first elimination round, I had more Marvel villains left than DC. After the second and third rounds, I still had more Marvel villains left than DC.

Marvel was dominant on each round, but DC ultimately won because no Marvel villain could surpass Joker or Lex Luthor.

I did this a few more times, randomized differently. I even gave DC the win in cases of ties. I still ended up with basically the same results as the first time.

While Joker and Luthor were tops, I have to give the overall win to Marvel. It had too many strong primary and secondary villains. I have a theory that DC is too dependent on the strength of Superman and Batman villains while Marvel has many great villains spread out among its many prominent heroes.

So, anyway, those are my findings for those who care. I'm not claiming it's scientifically full proof or entirely objective, but at least I had a methodology working for me.

 

[Luckyflux]

On a whim, I made a list of about 60 of the most prominent DC villains and 60 of the most prominent Marvel villains. I randomized the lists.

Going down the lists, I played an "elimination game", pitting the popularity and presence of each successive DC villain against each successive Marvel villain. I honestly tried to be as objective as I could.

After the first elimination round, I had more Marvel villains left than DC. After the second and third rounds, I still had more Marvel villains left than DC.

Marvel was dominant on each round, but DC ultimately won because no Marvel villain could surpass Joker or Lex Luthor.

I did this a few more times, randomized differently. I even gave DC the win in cases of ties. I still ended up with basically the same results as the first round.

While Joker and Luthor were tops, I have to give the overall win to Marvel.

So, anyway, those are my findings for those who care. I'm not claiming it's scientifically full proof or entirely objective, but at least I had a methodology working for me.

I'd be interested in seeing more detail about this. What about Galactus? He could beat the Joker and Lex. Couldn't Magneto beat the them both?

 

[Norrin Radd]

Well, I wasn't going by power-level or fighting ability, but rather relative popularity and fanbase, so even Galactus bought the farm eventually. Hell, even Catwoman beat him.

 

[Dream]

Joker beats anything Marvel has.

 

[Praetor]

I tend to agree, Dream. I feel this belief cannot be easy for you, Norrin Radd.

That said, there is something to what you say. I'd say the average Marvel villain is probably cooler and of slightly better 'quality' than the average DC villain, but the coolest and highest quality DC villains, unfortunately primarily those of Superman and Batman, easily trump the coolest, highest quality Marvel villains.

I think my favorite Marvel villain is probably Green Goblin/Norman Osborn, but runner-up points to Dr. Doom. I discount Magneto and Venom since they both tend to have anti-heroic qualities.

 

[Anwar]

Joker beats anything Marvel has.

Beh, Joker's less a character than he is a plot device. Give me Magneto anyday.

 

[LutherSloan]

I tend to agree with this. DC does not have a lot of strong villains beyond the most well-known ones. Marvel's secondary villains aren't bad either.

 

[Aquehonga]

Intriguing thread Norrin Radd

I'd have to give the Baddy Metal to DC. Only due to Batman & Superman.

Batman had the 60's film & series highlighting Joker, Penguin, Catwoman & Riddler etc et al.

Joker & Penguin showed up in an early 70's Scooby-Doo. Plus the Batman & Justice League cartoons from the 70's.

Then you had Gene Hackman's iconic Lex Luthor.

After that, Nicholson's Joker, DeVito's disappointing craptacular Penguin & Pfeiffer's Catwman, then Carrey's Riddler.

Then, the late Heath Ledger's Joker last summer.

So, from my view, there's been over 4 decades of Joker/Lex Luthor saturation.

And I didn't think of the Luke Skywalker VO as Joker cartoon, or the current “Smallville” which has young Lex til just now.

Ah well, from where I'm looking, Direct Current fries Marvel on this one

PS: Look at that Blu-Ray Joker/Penguin/Catwoman/Riddler ad/promotion up on top of the page ^. We have a bleeping JOKER PROMO on the top of, above, this thread.

THE JOKER's DEBUT ON BLU-RAY 3/10/09.

 

[Bad Bishop]

Marvel ----- DC
Galactus ----- Toyman
Annihilus ----- Prankster
Dr. Doom ----- Cheetah
Magneto ----- Calendar Man
Doctor Octopus ----- Mister Mind

Hmm... it's true. Marvel has better villains.

 

[miraclefan]

Marvel ----- DC
Galactus ----- Toyman
Annihilus ----- Prankster
Dr. Doom ----- Cheetah
Magneto ----- Calendar Man
Doctor Octopus ----- Mister Mind

Hmm... it's true. Marvel has better villains.

Only because you picked the CRAPY D.C. villains. It SHULD read: MARVEL VS. DC. Galactus--Anti-Monitor / Annihilus--Darksied/ Dr. Doom--Lex Luther/ Magneto--Sinastro/ Doc Ock--Reverse Flash( Professor Zoom) in this round DC has the cooler and more EVIL villains

 

[Norrin Radd]

Joker beats anything Marvel has.

These days? Yes he does, definitely. Now, if Marvel could come up with $1 billion grossing movie with one of its villains being prominently showcased, that could change.

In the case of Luthor...I'm not a big fan of the character.

But he's so iconic, more so than Dr. Doom or Magneto, he deserves the win.

But Luthor vs. Joker? That's tough, but I'm leaning towards the latter.

 

[TheBrew]

In that line-up, DC only wins Darksied. If Sinestro had more of an established history of being awesome (he's been great since GL:Rebirth), he might give Mags a run for his money. Of course, I think that Doom is better than Luthor who is a bit of a one-note joke now, IMO.

 

[Norrin Radd]

That said, there is something to what you say. I'd say the average Marvel villain is probably cooler and of slightly better 'quality' than the average DC villain, but the coolest and highest quality DC villains, unfortunately primarily those of Superman and Batman, easily trump the coolest, highest quality Marvel villains.

My theory is that over the years, DC has used Superman and Batman as a crutch so often that it was the villains of those heroes who gained the most development and prominence.

Marvel, too, has relied most upon two titles: Spider-Man and X-Men. And the villains of those comics are generally the most prominent of the company. However, I argue that due to Marvel's increased market share, the secondary Marvel comics like FF, Avengers, Hulk, Cap, and IM have gotten relatively more coverage than DC's secondary comics and therefore more development for their villains.

Plus, it doesn't help DC that they're always rebooting their continuities, including those of their villains.

 

[Mr Light]

B-b-but... DC has the Body Doubles!

 

[Norrin Radd]

Intriguing thread Norrin Radd

I'd have to give the Baddy Metal to DC. Only due to Batman & Superman.

Batman had the 60's film & series highlighting Joker, Penguin, Catwoman & Riddler etc et al.

Joker & Penguin showed up in an early 70's Scooby-Doo. Plus the Batman & Justice League cartoons from the 70's.

Then you had Gene Hackman's iconic Lex Luthor.

After that, Nicholson's Joker, DeVito's disappointing craptacular Penguin & Pfeiffer's Catwman, then Carrey's Riddler.

Then, the late Heath Ledger's Joker last summer.

So, from my view, there's been over 4 decades of Joker/Lex Luthor saturation.

And I didn't think of the Luke Skywalker VO as Joker cartoon, or the current “Smallville” which has young Lex til just now.

Ah well, from where I'm looking, Direct Current fries Marvel on this one

PS: Look at that Blu-Ray Joker/Penguin/Catwoman/Riddler ad/promotion up on top of the page ^. We have a bleeping JOKER PROMO on the top of, above, this thread.

THE JOKER's DEBUT ON BLU-RAY 3/10/09.

The Batman and Superman villain appearances in movies and television were a major factor in my assessments. However, I felt I also had to consider how the comic book fanbase felt about these villains too, not just the casual fans who may watch a movie but never a comic.

I mean, the average person on the street may know nothing about the Red Skull and a lot more about the Penguin. But, from a comic book industry perspective, can I honestly say that the Penguin is a better...cooler...more important villain than the Red Skull? No, I just can't and I didn't. I mean, the Penguin is basically a secondary villain for Batman while the Red Skull is Cap's main villain and a higher-level villain within his comic book universe.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Overall I would have to agree with you. Based purely on quantity, Marvel has far more great villains than DC. However, DC's greatest villains are so far and away superior to Marvel's greatest villains that DC will always win in the competition you staged. The examples given of The Joker and Lex Luthor, which are perhaps the most iconic comic book villains of all time illustrate this point. The Joker in particular is often called the greatest villain not just in comic books but in all of media.

 

[hyzmarca]

Marvel ----- DC
Galactus ----- Toyman
Annihilus ----- Prankster
Dr. Doom ----- Cheetah
Magneto ----- Calendar Man
Doctor Octopus ----- Mister Mind

Hmm... it's true. Marvel has better villains.

Only because you picked the CRAPY D.C. villains. It SHULD read: MARVEL VS. DC. Galactus--Anti-Monitor / Annihilus--Darksied/ Dr. Doom--Lex Luther/ Magneto--Sinastro/ Doc Ock--Reverse Flash( Professor Zoom) in this round DC has the cooler and more EVIL villains

The Anti-Monitor is evil because he's made out of Antimatter.

Galactus is the last survivor of a dead universe reborn as the cosmic balance between Death and Eternity that allows the very universe to exist and yet controlled by an all-consuming hunger that will eventually destroy the all of the lives that his mere existence fosters.

How the hell does the Anti-Monitor come out being cooler?


Annihilus is an insect with dreams of universal conquest. Darkseid is a God of order who seeks to bend the entire universe to his will.

Okay, Darkie wins there. But, really, DC screwed up when they decided to shift the Apokolips / New Genesis conflict from order vs freedom to evil vs good.

A brilliant yet narcissictic dictator who rules with an iron fist and yet has a very happy populace because he is just that good vs a businessman who is really crappy at doing business any yet stays rich anyway. Doom wins.

Sinestro vs Magneto? Seriously? An angry ex cop vs a holocaust survivor turned exremist who takes the motto Never Again and runs with it far enough to hold the world hostage with nuclear missiles in a gambit to keep his people safe.

And I don't even know who Professor Zoom is. But Doc Ock has always been one of the weaker Spider-Man villains.

 

[Morfius]

I don't see what's so cool about the Joker. And I hated Ledger's portrayal of him in the recent movie.

Lex Luthor is boring to me.

Outside of Batman/Superman, only a handfull of DC villains have seeped into my conciousness. (Dr. Ubex is kind of cool)

Yet Marvel has some very interesting villains: Ultron, Crossbones, Superia, Thanos, Rama-tut, Kurse, the Magus, the Viper, Serpent Society, Master Pandamonium, Electra, Bullseye, the Punisher,

 

[Praetor]

Morfius, I've only heard of six of those (two of which I dislike), but that may be more of a reflection of my reading tendencies than anything else.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

While Darkseid, Lex Luthor and the Joker are pretty cool, I tend to think Marvel has much more interesting villains, and in much greater volume. I won't bother to make a list, but I will say that I avoided Dc comics because whenever I read them, I usually didn't give a damn because I didn't give a damn who they were fighting. With Marvel by contrast, I frequently read books because I liked the villains better than the heros.