• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Religion: Roddenberry was right!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

wahwahkits

Commander
Red Shirt
I've been stewing on this for a while now but I believe that Gene Roddenberrys vision that by the 23rd century mankind would have moved passed the need for religion is absolutely spot-on correct.

Man would have long-ago realised that it was a complete waste of time devoting time and bizarre religous practises to a divine being that plainly doesn't exist.

Where is the evidence? There is none. (That is just my opinion and for those that disagree fair play to you and your delusions)

People tell me that no evidence is needed to believe in God and that its all based on faith.
How can I have faith in a cruel God that lets children suffer? --- what sins have they committed? NONE

Anyway rant over. I now I may be opening a sensitive can of worms here but what do people think of Roddeberrys notion that religion on Earth will be redundant in the future?
 
The ST:TNG episode Data's Day mentioned that several crewmembers/passengers aboard the NCC-1701-D were celebrating the Hindu Festival of Lights, and that particular segment was produced while Gene Roddenberry still had a pulse. As for those ghastly Semitic cults (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Marxism, Randian Objectivism, etc.), I would like to think that their more pathological followers were either physically exterminated, or - as inspired by Greg Bear's 1982 LitSF novel Strength of Stones - they pooled their money, bought themselves some shithole desert planet orbiting a star very far from Sol and relocated there en masse to continue engaging in their blood-splattered mythomaniacal power fantasies without bothering the neighbors. :)

TGT
 
The three most important words for the future of mankind when it comes to religion are these: I don't know.

People can believe whatever they want. You can be an athiest, he can be a Christian, she can be a Muslim, and I can be a Discordian, and that's all well and good, so long as we all acknowledge that while we feel what we do and those feelings may be backed up by the dogma and doctrine of our sects, we don't know.

When someone thinks they know to the extent that they will derive authority from it, they frequently become dangerous to others. The non-believers must be shown or slain.

THAT, actually, is what I believe to be the fundamental difference between humans now and the humans depicted in Star Trek: by their time, they have matured to a point where, rather than needing to pretend they know how the whole universe works, they are willing to humble themselves enough to accept that there is great wonder in the things that are out there to be discovered when one doesn't know.

Some people are like that today. Growing numbers, in fact, I believe - and that gives me hope.
 
For all of GR's talk about no religion (and I'm never sure how much actually came from him and how much is apocryphal and how much is mythology), there are at least a few religious references in all of the series, as well as references to a lack of religion. Whatever GR envisioned, what he ended up with is a legacy consisting of TV series and movies that very, very, very carefully don't take a stand one way or another on whether religion, in the general sense, is true or false. I'd call it an agnostic vision rather than an atheistic vision.

What the series do take a definite stand on is in favor of tolerance. Not sure you post fits in with Gene's vision of that, Wahwahkits. (Funny screen name, by the way!)

But anyway, religion will never be redundant for the simple reason that almost anything can and has become a religion if somebody wants it to, and I believe that will continue. Humans just seem to be wired that way, which is why you find extremely devout atheists, for example - atheists as fervent and vocal as the most evangelical of Christians. And devout scientists who may have started out as disciples of the scientific principle of "prove it to me," but who become so invested in a theory that they become, in effect, True Believers. And of course, regular run-of-the-mill religious people, like me.

I think it's simplistic to assume that as humans become more mature as a species, this automatically means they will cease to look for something above and beyond - call that God, call it the Ultimate Truth, call it the Secret to Life, the Universe and Everything, call it the Unified Theory, call it whatever. Looking for something above and beyond - something beyond "We need to do this to eat and this to propagate" is in fact what humans are meant to do. At least I think so.
 
Babaganoosh said:
USS_Triumphant said:
When someone thinks they know to the extent that they will derive authority from it, they frequently become dangerous to others. The non-believers must be shown or slain.
Click to expand...

This works both ways, you know. ;)
Click to expand...

Indeed--fanaticism wears many faces, some of them quite surprising and often not acknowledged in modern society.

For instance--see below. Here we have an example of wishing for a holocaust of those with whom one has a religious disagreement...and this from someone who is not a believer in any deity:

The God Thing said:
The ST:TNG episode Data's Day mentioned that several crewmembers/passengers aboard the NCC-1701-D were celebrating the Hindu Festival of Lights, and that particular segment was produced while Gene Roddenberry still had a pulse. As for those ghastly Semitic cults (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Marxism, Randian Objectivism, etc.), I would like to think that their more pathological followers were either physically exterminated, or - as inspired by Greg Bear's 1982 LitSF novel Strength of Stones - they pooled their money, bought themselves some shithole desert planet orbiting a star very far from Sol and relocated there en masse to continue engaging in their blood-splattered mythomaniacal power fantasies without bothering the neighbors. :)

TGT
Click to expand...

The idea of self-exile I would not be so bothered by. And if Earth did indeed become so intolerant that believers were either going to be killed or ostracized, where the beliefs themselves were universally condemned rather than judging the actions that people take and punishing those, I would indeed expect such a move to occur.

I'll give you one last chance to claim sarcasm on that bit about extermination, because at the very least, that was a crack in very poor taste. But if that is indeed your wish, to round up people with whom you disagree and have them shot--then that attitude is exactly the same vicious one that you condemn when you see it in others.
 
JustKate said:
For all of GR's talk about no religion (and I'm never sure how much actually came from him and how much is apocryphal and how much is mythology), there are at least a few religious references in all of the series, as well as references to a lack of religion. Whatever GR envisioned, what he ended up with is a legacy consisting of TV series and movies that very, very, very carefully don't take a stand one way or another on whether religion, in the general sense, is true or false. I'd call it an agnostic vision rather than an atheistic vision.

What the series do take a definite stand on is in favor of tolerance. Not sure you post fits in with Gene's vision of that, Wahwahkits. (Funny screen name, by the way!)

But anyway, religion will never be redundant for the simple reason that almost anything can and has become a religion if you want it to, and I believe that will continue. Humans just seem to be wired that way, which is why you find extremely devout atheists, for example - atheists as fervent and vocal as the most evangelical of Christians. And devout scientists who may have started out as disciples of the scientific principle of "prove it to me," but who become so invested in a theory that they become, in effect, True Believers. And of course, regular run-of-the-mill religious people, like me.

I think it's simplistic to assume that as humans become more mature as a species, this automatically means they will cease to look for something above and beyond - call that God, call it the Ultimate Truth, call it the Secret to Life, the Universe and Everything, call it the Unified Theory, call it whatever. Looking for something above and beyond - something beyond "We need to do this to eat and this to propagate" is in fact what humans are meant to do. At least I think so.
Click to expand...

'Wahwahkits' is the name of an obscure song by the British band, James.

Reading my post I realise I may have over-stepped the mark a little!

Religion isn't just about looking for the ultimate truth etc, it's a manifestation of peoples fear of death. After all the thought of death is not so bad if we believe that we will be reunited with our loved ones and live in heaven for all eternity.

I'm totally behind the scientific approach, ie. show me the evidence.
Why doesn't God show himself? Why doesn't he heal the sick? What harm would it do?
I beleive people in the future (or at least Roddenberrys future) will not practice religion because of the points i've made above.

And please don't anyone get me started on the bullshit paranormal or those crackpots who say they've seen/been abducted by aliens!
 
^ ^ Well, perhaps it would be fairer to say that it has worked both ways in the past.
 
wahwahkits said:
Man would have long-ago realised that it was a complete waste of time devoting time and bizarre religous practises to a divine being that plainly doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

If that were going to happen, it should have happened by 2009. The contradictions and lack of evidence of literal, conservative Christianity have been being kicked around since textual criticism really got going, and certainly since the Enlightenment. Robespierre even tried to establish a church/cult of Reason in Revolutionary France.

But WANTING a big helper being might be part and parcel of human experience; plus each generation brainwashes the next. I was for 37 years or so til my brain just stopped believing. (I believe I would actually be slightly happier with my old beliefs.)

So, if it were gonna happen, it woulda by now. IMO
 
plynch said:
But WANTING a big helper being might be part and parcel of human experience; plus each generation brainwashes the next. I was for 37 years or so til my brain just stopped believing. (I believe I would actually be slightly happier with my old beliefs.)
Click to expand...
:changes hats:

What is it that has guided you away from the Lord, my child?
 
wahwahkits said:
'Wahwahkits' is the name of an obscure song by the British band, James.
Click to expand...

It's also that thing that makes electric guitars make a "wah-wah" sound, or so I understand. Whatever the source, :lol:

Religion isn't just about looking for the ultimate truth etc, it's a manifestation of peoples fear of death. After all the thought of death is not so bad if we believe that we will be reunited with our loved ones and live in heaven for all eternity.
Click to expand...

That is a part of religion, yes. But that's not even close to the whole story. If you'll forgive a personal note, I would call adult religion a search for God. It isn't always that, of course - I have my good metaphysics days and my not-so-good metaphysics days, days when I am capable of some small amount of profundity and many more days when I am not. But if a search for God isn't a search for the Ultimate, what would you call it?

I'm totally behind the scientific approach, ie. show me the evidence. Why doesn't God show himself? Why doesn't he heal the sick? What harm would it do?
Click to expand...

But you know perfectly well that the scientific approach doesn't work for all kinds of things. How do you know when somebody loves you? How do you know when somebody is a true friend? How do you know there's such a thing as the Big Bang? How do you know that archeologists have really translated the Rosetta Stone? All kinds of things have to be taken on faith, only some people choose not to call it that. You can guess or assume that somebody loves you based on their actions, but you don't actually have scientific proof, do you? You can accept the Big Bang theory based on the fact that people who know about such things have seen the proof, but you yourself don't know that proof, right? (And if by some chance you are an astrophysicist and have seen and understood the proof with your own eyes, then replace "the Big Bang" with some other generally accepted theory about which you don't have specialized knowledge. No nitpicking! ;) )

How do you know if the universe is infinite? If it's infinite, we never will know, will we?

But this is way too deep of a subject for a message board, and it's OT anyway.

And please don't anyone get me started on the bullshit paranormal or those crackpots who say they've seen/been abducted by aliens!
Click to expand...

Agreed 1000%, except that I try very hard not to call them "crackpots."
 
Last edited:
People are not going to give up belief in the unknown, the unknowable, the supernatural, or powers greater than themselves.

If you don't like that you can insert an "unfortunately" in there. That said, there's just no precedent or reasoning to support the notion that these things will diminish much less disappear.

What forms religion may evolve into is a different question.
 
I always find it strange that humans are evolving to the point of being able to create a universe, yet cannot believe that other beings may have already reached that point. Oh well, better to not get involved in a religious argument. It is much more fun to spend my lunch break in EQ2 or WOW. ;)
 
Also in Balance of Terror the wedding and ending scene of the episode took place in the ship's Chapel.

I just don't understand how anyobdy can claim we know so much about the universe that it is evidence against God. I'm not saying a person has to believe in God. It just seems very arogant and close minded to dismiss the possibility of God 100%.

What wrong with paranormal stuff and alien abductions?
 
The God Thing actually inadvertantly points out why I think that religion will be with us forever. His plan for eliminating religion? The systematic murder of millions of people in the name of the 'religious-free-state'. Such a thing would be the antithesis of what Star Trek is all about, but there it is... mass murder, anti-semitism, orders of magnitude more than Hitler and Stalin combined accomplished.

And TGT writes it off as a good thing overall. Just something to consider.
 
Vance said:
The God Thing actually inadvertantly points out why I think that religion will be with us forever. His plan for eliminating religion? The systematic murder of millions of people in the name of the 'religious-free-state'. Such a thing would be the antithesis of what Star Trek is all about, but there it is... mass murder, anti-semitism, orders of magnitude more than Hitler and Stalin combined accomplished.

And TGT writes it off as a good thing overall. Just something to consider.
Click to expand...
TGT is quite capable of speaking for himself - there's no need to make this discussion personal. Please keep comments focussed on the topic and not on other posters. Thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
Musical Memories: Spock and Uhura Friendship fic
Replies
0
Views
749
Marie Nomad
M
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top