• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

You got it all wrong

Was watching me some TOS last night, while playing my MADDEN 2009 (gotta love my Media Command Center). And I was watching THE APPLE. This is one of those episodes where I think Kirk should have just let these people be. Instead he goes and introduces 'freedom' and eventually 'sexual exploration'. The freedom part is iffy, but sex??? How come I have the funny feeling that if PICARD and company had visited that planet during TNG there would have been an adult porn shop/tatoo parlor on every corner???

So...KIRK..I think you got it all wrong. Mind your own business!!!!

Rob
Scorpio
 
They did it all over again in TNG:Justice, too. Except it was due to ignorance instead of willful meddling.

P.S. I remember an old quote about Kirk, "Going boldly throughout the galaxy, spreading the doctrine of democracy and good grooming!" -- or something like that. Maybe it was from TV Guide; not sure. Someone probably remembers.
 
They did it all over again in TNG:Justice, too. Except it was due to ignorance instead of willful meddling.

P.S. I remember an old quote about Kirk, "Going boldly throughout the galaxy, spreading the doctrine of democracy and good grooming!" -- or something like that. Maybe it was from TV Guide; not sure. Someone probably remembers.

not to put a more finer point on it, but he was 'spreading' something else too!!! And lots of them!!

Rob
 
Now that I think of it, it may have been the "...spreading the joy of..."
 
DC Comics did a sequel to "The Apple" in the late 1980s (I believe), which showed that things didn't turn out to well for those poor folks after all. It would be nice to see some more follow-up stories that investigate the after effects of the crew's meddling. I think TWOK is the only example of this in the official canon...unless I am overlooking some.
 
The fact is that Kirk's ship was at stake, if it hadn't been, maybe he would not have changed anything. Then again, Kirk always hated computer controlled worlds and seem to go out of his way to uncomputer them.

The locals learned of sex by watching Checkov get it on with that yoeman, but I would have liked to hear Vol's computer definition of sex.
 
The fact is that Kirk's ship was at stake, if it hadn't been, maybe he would not have changed anything. Then again, Kirk always hated computer controlled worlds and seem to go out of his way to uncomputer them.

That's true; Kirk's obligation to defend his ship and his crew made it a battle for survival rather than a moral debate.

As a side note, Kirk's anguish over losing people under his command was at its most intense in this episode, too. Shatner was quite good in this one! :)
 
The locals learned of sex by watching Checkov get it on with that yoeman, but I would have liked to hear Vol's computer definition of sex.

Instead of a basketful of bananas in the mouth, it's just one.

Hopefully.

Love,

Vol
 
I don't know if i like The Apple or really dislike it............

I think I have a love/hate relationship goin' on with it frankly. . .

Yeah Kirk kills another over-reaching computer society but then ya gotta love an episode where a red-shirt buys it on an exploding rock.

It's well understated; yeah, that's it.................
 
It's gotta be one of the MOST colorful episodes of a tremendously colorful series -- and I don't mean that figuratively.

The colors on the sets are gorgeous. They managed to create the explosion of life of a real jungle on a sound stage.
 
Well, the follow up would be rather boring.

The Resolution:

1. Have Scotty and his team repair Vaal and reprogram it so it does not take hostile action against Federation Starships.

2. Or transport Vaal's people to Talos 4 and have the Talosian create an illusion of Vaal for them to worship and serve.


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\
 
It was one of the worst, IMHO. Really, REALLY dumb. The "Vaal" prop was ridiculous looking. I can understand venomous darts, but exploding rocks was seriously out of place. And a lightning bolt does not vaporize a person. :scream: But I think this was the first time we see Spock take a presumptuously lethal fall for Kirk.
 
It was one of the worst, IMHO. Really, REALLY dumb. The "Vaal" prop was ridiculous looking. I can understand venomous darts, but exploding rocks was seriously out of place. And a lightning bolt does not vaporize a person. :scream: But I think this was the first time we see Spock take a presumptuously lethal fall for Kirk.
Now if you add a snide remark about Romulans they sure gonna ban you from these forums. Just sayin' ... :shifty:









;)
 
That's true; Kirk's obligation to defend his ship and his crew made it a battle for survival rather than a moral debate.

What happened to dying for the king and country? In "Omega Glory", Kirk swore that "A star captain's most solemn oath is that he will give his life, even his entire crew, rather than violate the Prime Directive."

That's a classic problem, really. Patton had it all wrong: sometimes wars are won by dying for one's country, rather than by staying alive. A soldier may do damage to his nation's reputation or strategic aims by fighting for his life, whereas letting oneself be killed would preserve said reputation or allow a strategic plan to proceed. Yet such a requirement for self-sacrifice cannot be written into the doctrines, because the soldiers wouldn't follow their commanders if they were told that.

In "Omega Glory", Tracey fought back an aggressive army of attackers who would have taken his life, plus those of thousands of others, and Kirk considered that vile. In "The Apple", Kirk fought back a machine that threatened nobody but him and his crew, and saw nothing wrong with it. What was the difference? That killing the machine wasn't directly comparable to killing live natives? But Kirk could see the causal connection that the machine kept these natives alive...

Self-defense was probably a criminal act in both cases as such. But Kirk could argue that he'd fix things later, before any biological lives were lost; Tracey's victims stayed dead. And there's every indication that Kirk or Starfleet did return. Remember what got them there in the first place? Starfleet wanted to contact the natives about the strange and alarming readings that (as we later learned) Vaal was responsible for, presumably to fix things for the natives. Kirk fixed them halfway; Starfleet would be interested in fixing them the rest of the way. And perhaps gaining colonization rights on the Garden of Eden.

Timo Saloniemi
 
That's true; Kirk's obligation to defend his ship and his crew made it a battle for survival rather than a moral debate.

What happened to dying for the king and country? In "Omega Glory", Kirk swore that "A star captain's most solemn oath is that he will give his life, even his entire crew, rather than violate the Prime Directive."

That's a classic problem, really. Patton had it all wrong: sometimes wars are won by dying for one's country, rather than by staying alive. A soldier may do damage to his nation's reputation or strategic aims by fighting for his life, whereas letting oneself be killed would preserve said reputation or allow a strategic plan to proceed. Yet such a requirement for self-sacrifice cannot be written into the doctrines, because the soldiers wouldn't follow their commanders if they were told that.

In "Omega Glory", Tracey fought back an aggressive army of attackers who would have taken his life, plus those of thousands of others, and Kirk considered that vile. In "The Apple", Kirk fought back a machine that threatened nobody but him and his crew, and saw nothing wrong with it. What was the difference? That killing the machine wasn't directly comparable to killing live natives? But Kirk could see the causal connection that the machine kept these natives alive...

Self-defense was probably a criminal act in both cases as such. But Kirk could argue that he'd fix things later, before any biological lives were lost; Tracey's victims stayed dead. And there's every indication that Kirk or Starfleet did return. Remember what got them there in the first place? Starfleet wanted to contact the natives about the strange and alarming readings that (as we later learned) Vaal was responsible for, presumably to fix things for the natives. Kirk fixed them halfway; Starfleet would be interested in fixing them the rest of the way. And perhaps gaining colonization rights on the Garden of Eden.

Timo Saloniemi

That's an excellent point, very articulately put. It certainly sheds a darker light on our heroes!
 
DC Comics did a sequel to "The Apple" in the late 1980s (I believe), which showed that things didn't turn out to well for those poor folks after all. It would be nice to see some more follow-up stories that investigate the after effects of the crew's meddling. I think TWOK is the only example of this in the official canon...unless I am overlooking some.

You forgot the tribbles sequel where we learn about Arn Darvin!
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top