Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot

[KimMH]

That carries the assumption that Voyager novels can only do one or the other. I have no problems envisioning a set of books with multiple storylines and multiple settings.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

But ones that never intertwine in any significant way (I hate when cross-overs are forced)? Are we really willing to have every Voyager novel split into two parts?

I really don't have a stake one way or the other. Janeway was annoying and Chakotay was cardboard. I would just like to see someone come up with a way to re-vitalize this particular corner of the Trek universe the way that Enterprise was.

Hmmm, I think that's a matter of opinion.

ENT has yet to be 're-vitalized' in my eyes...i.e. we still have two characters--Travis and Hoshi--who aren't really given much to do in the books. (The novels should expand the characters, not just choice characters).

Moreover, we're talking about Geordi in the TNG novels; I'm sure there are other characters.

I too would like to see Hoshi and Mayweather fleshed out! I'd run to the ENT forum and suggest it but this one is so absorbing. much more diverting than politics when educated civilized people call each other names and cast aspersions at each others' motivations . . .

 

[Gorf]

You may find you love DS9 as much as Voyager!

Say...what season would be a good place to start? I once bought seasons 1 and 2, and was bored stiff by them, but I've been told the beginning isn't the best start to...well begin so...any suggestiong that's going to make me love DS9 right off?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

And fan opinion had everything to do with Leonard Nimoy’s change of heart.

Oh so your the type of fan that the new Trek film in May is going to annoy the crap out of.

 

[rfmcdpei]

You can have all the “refreshingly difference” you want, just don’t do it at our expense.

It's at your expense if you want it to be at your expense.

For that matter, Janeway isn't your proprietary character. Who says that you and you alone have a right to determine that character's development?

 

[KimMH]

You may find you love DS9 as much as Voyager!

Say...what season would be a good place to start? I once bought seasons 1 and 2, and was bored stiff by them, but I've been told the beginning isn't the best start to...well begin so...any suggestiong that's going to make me love DS9 right off?

The first season imo, was a little slow but it does offer you enough background and enough time (even in a back to back to back fest) to care about them. That is the "So What" about DS9 and VOY, too. What does it matter if a ship or a station or an entire planet is in danger if you do not care about them? It matters to YOU if there are characters you care about living another day. If they are compelling you care if they get gunned down or eaten by a floor or ffall off a cliff. The Dominion War is fascinating and you eventually get to see and admire Cardassians and if you are pressed for time you can jump in there but you will miss out on some really great stuff. although Vic and the holodeck Vegas not so much . . .

 

[Tachyon]

^Yeah, that holo-Vic was crap.

 

[Gorf]

I just couldn't get into the first season of DS9. I felt no attraction to the characters, but I was also buying Voyager at the time - I think - maybe that affected my judgement. I'll give it a try and maybe skip some stuff if...LOVED BSG!!! Never thought I would, but damn that's a good show.

 

[Tachyon]

The first season is not the best one, but it sets the basis of what to come. I couldn't make any heads or tails with Sisko, for example. I think his character was not very well developed in the beginning, but he grew on me later on.

My favorite seasons are 3 and 5.

 

[Thrawn]

The biggest argument for keeping Janeway dead that I’ve heard here is “bringing Janeway back would spoil my story.” How about killing her has spoiled our stories, do we not have that same right. All we are saying to anyone here is that we don’t want “one last glorious story” we want Kathryn Janeway alive. You don’t have to use her in any of your books, but don't kill her off either.

Brit

Actually, no - you don't have any "rights" here at all. The only people that have ANY "rights" are the people that own the property, and they can do whatever the hell they want. You don't have a right to your story, and I don't have a right to mine.

I'm just happy they're going in my direction. I'm sorry they aren't going in yours.

 

[bod]

I'm trying to make this simple. but since you don't seem to understand the carrot vs stick metaphor, I don't know if this post will clarify anything at all. Hint: I'm saying you should offer Pocket a carrot in the form of buying a Voyager novel you like instead of offering the stick of a boycott.

You're only here trying to boost sales. After reading the nonsense that was 'Homecoming' I wouldn't part with another penny on pocket books.

 

[Gorf]

You're only here trying to boost sales. After reading the nonsense that was 'Homecoming' I wouldn't part with another penny on pocket books.

Couldn't agree more. I never even made it through Homecoming.

 

[Lynx]

Therin, most of the characters you have named were “killed off” because the actor expressed the desire to discontinue playing the role, Kate Mulgrew has on numerous occasions expressed a desire to play Kathryn Janeway again. In the case of Spock, Leonard Nimoy reversed his original decision. I also think with hindsight being twenty-twenty both Terry Farrell and Denise Crosby might not have chosen to leave their respective series.

Data’s death is tied up with the aging of Brent Spiner. Date does not age but actors do, however Brent Spiner can play a Data that appears older (as in Data’s knowledge in another android body – hint hint – the reset button we were given). These comments do not include Trip’s death because I don’t know much about “Enterprise” and her characters but apparently Trip was popular enough that Trek Lit did bring him back.

You can have all the “refreshingly difference” you want, just don’t do it at our expense.

And fan opinion had everything to do with Leonard Nimoy’s change of heart. (Of course the money wasn’t bad either.)

The biggest argument for keeping Janeway dead that I’ve heard here is “bringing Janeway back would spoil my story.” How about killing her has spoiled our stories, do we not have that same right. All we are saying to anyone here is that we don’t want “one last glorious story” we want Kathryn Janeway alive. You don’t have to use her in any of your books, but don't kill her off either.

Brit

Here I agree.

You're correct about Denise Crosby. She did regret leaving the show which was a reason why they gave her "guest appearances" by coming up with that silly Sela plot (one of the worst in Star Trek). As for Farrell, there are rumors that she was axed because she wanted more money.

Since the characters they played were killed off in the TV series, I can see that there are difficulties to bring them back. But why kill off characters who did "survive" the TV series. What's the point in doing so? I mean, here we have a bunch of excellent characters who are great to write stories about and who are loved by millions of fans. Why not use them to come up with more great stories? Why kill them off and annoy those who might like the characters and also limit the possibilities to come up with great stories as well?

As for Data, there is a possibility to bring him back. The same for characters like Kes, Neelix and Wesley Crusher. So why don't use that opportunity? Who knows, it could actually increase the sales of the books.

Remember that the books aren't depending on certain actors will to continue to play a certain character or not.

 

[Thrawn]

You're only here trying to boost sales. After reading the nonsense that was 'Homecoming' I wouldn't part with another penny on pocket books.

Couldn't agree more. I never even made it through Homecoming.

On the scale of awesomeness, if a 0 is the worst Trek novel ever released and 10 is the best, Homecoming is about a 2.

If you think it's representative of the quality of the rest of the Pocket line, then you're really missing out. It's like giving up on all of Star Trek after watching The Final Frontier or Nemesis or Spock's Brain, etc etc.

 

[Gorf]

On the scale of awesomeness, if a 0 is the worst Trek novel ever released and 10 is the best, Homecoming is about a 2.

If you think it's representative of the quality of the rest of the Pocket line, then you're really missing out. It's like giving up on all of Star Trek after watching The Final Frontier or Nemesis or Spock's Brain, etc etc.

I'm talking about the Voyager books and you know it. I have zero interest in the rest of the Trek or Pocket line as you say.

Too many other good books to spend my money on.

 

[Marie1]

VOY is the one and only Trek you're interested in? And not all of it? Is it the only Trek you ever watched, and you didn't like it all that much?

 

[Therin of Andor]

As I've said repeatedly if you argue with me, I'll argue with you. If you stop, I'll stop. I will NOT be told to just wait and see without speaking my mind. Plain and simple.

So you'll only stop writing about Janeway if we stop writing about Janeway first? If Janeway's your only character of interest in all of ST, you must have hit many bbs threads in your time that were totally irrelevant to your case.

Oh and you're doing and awfully good job ignoring the very real fact that Janeway fans like me won't be picking up a Star Trek book in 5-6 years just because Pocket Books by some miracle suddenly decides that they want us back as customers at that time.

I am a Janeway fan, and I am an appreciator, collector and reader of the Pocket Books licensed ST books. I put my faith in the authors and editors to deliver compelling interesting stories, and they deliver that in spades. I'm not going to demand that they start providing me only with happy endings, where all characters' growth and change is ritually reverted back to the status quo within one or two story instalments. We had that time (and particularly enforced in 1989-early 2000s), and it faded out after the ST Office was closed at Paramount.

Pocket's team has chosen to kill off a main character, and to keep them dead, perhaps for longer than we've been used to. Pocket has also elected to keep Data dead. For now. And to resurrect Trip. And Kirk. They've given themselves an "out" with Janeway, in case another story concept comes along to restore that character to life in an interesting way. We've seen how the Voyager crew work with Janeway. Now, maybe for just a while, some of us will live through the crew's collective grief. Interesting to many, abhorant to a few.

One day, maybe we we least expect it, Janeway will return from the Q. Or maybe there'll be an amazing hardcover novel featuring Janeway's new experiences with the Q Continuum?

I'm not going to blackmail Pocket Books and announce that I'm withholding my money until they do my bidding. I trust them, based on their amazing track record since 1979, to continue delivering mostly-excellent ST literature. That includes stories with shock endings, mixed with happy endings.

My favourite "New Frontier" character was Ensign Janos. What PAD did with that character essentially killed off Janos but, had he just been written out, or promoted to Admiral, to appease Janos fans, I'd never have been able to read that wonderful tearjerker of a bittersweet ending in "Stone and Anvil". Had PAD taken note of his Internet fanbase, maybe Janos would still be a lowly security guard. Ho hum. Instead, we got the amazing "Stone and Anvil", and the rest of the characters continue their journeys. I trusted in Peter David, and he delivered.

In fact, then he delivered stubborn ol' Admiral Janeway a most ironic death at the hands of the Borg. While many disliked how it was done, or why it was done, it was also controversial. And controversy certainly sells books. I have a feeling "Full Circle" is gonna be a ST blockbuster. We probably haven't had one of those for the VOY line since... "Mosaic".

This is where the argument is and so therefore this is where I am as well.

Caveat emptor. You may well run into many more arguments you find patronizing. You already know this for a fact.

I'm not really all that sensitive about her death. I have a choice there and that's to not buy the books, which is exactly what I'll do. I can live with that. What I AM sensitive about are the 'just wait...' remarks over here. I'll stop when you stop saying things like that so it's really up to you guys.

Then have some faith in the stories, and the authors. And if you've never had faith, don't expect it to suddenly change.

You're assuming that I'll be wanting to read about all those other characters. They've cannibalised my favourite show and killed of my favourite character. I don't think I'll be worrying about the other series.

Then you'd do better writing pen-and-paper complaints to Simon & Schuster, and organising a campaign that Pocket might notice. Not just bitchin' on a bbs.

 

[Ktrek]

I'm beginning to wonder when the suicide bombers will come in!

Kevin

 

[Gorf]

Then have some faith in the stories, and the authors. And if you've never had faith, don't expect it to suddenly change.

Right...I'll have faith in the crappy stories they've published in the Voyager line since the show ended? Nah. They split up my crew and killed my captain. Don't think so.

Then you'd do better writing pen-and-paper complaints to Simon & Schuster, and organising a campaign that Pocket might notice. Not just bitchin' on a bbs.

Who says I didn't already do just that?

And Ktrek - that's below the belt and way beneath all of you.

But I should thank you all.

You've helped me prove that I'm stronger than I thought and that it really doesnt matter how much opposition I meet, how much I'm ridiculed, how many times I'm told I'm wrong, or what the hell you think of me...I just don't care.

What a wonderful feeling. Once I was afraid that people would judge me for what I liked and believed in. I'd say this have cured me. If I can face all of you, I can face anything.

 

[Trek]

You may find you love DS9 as much as Voyager!

Say...what season would be a good place to start? I once bought seasons 1 and 2, and was bored stiff by them, but I've been told the beginning isn't the best start to...well begin so...any suggestiong that's going to make me love DS9 right off?

There are some great character driven and political episodes early on that lay foundation for the later season. I'd recommend the pilot, Emmisary, along with Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets at the end of the first season. From Season 2 I'd suggest The Homecoming/The Circle/The Seige three parter that opens and after that I'd skip forward to Blood Oath (Episode 19) and move forward from there.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

The biggest argument for keeping Janeway dead that I’ve heard here is “bringing Janeway back would spoil my story.”

Two things.

First, I've never said that or anything remotely like it. You may quote me directly from the multitude of posts I made in these threads, particularly in the old "Will Before Dishonor's ending affect..." thread when I attempted to address your specific personal concerns, Brit...but please refrain from putting words into my mouth that make me sound like a cranky five-year-old.

Second, you've reversed the process. I didn't make up a story that required Janeway's death and then request that she be killed to accomodate that. I was advised that she had been killed and given the task of writing the most compelling story I could that dealt with the aftermath of her death, along with about a hundred other character and plot elements, large and small, which had been introduced into the Voyager and wider Trek universe both during and since the publication of Spirit Walk.

I understand the depth of your displeasure with the choice that was made by others to kill her and by me and my editor to go ahead and accept that death rather than immediately reverse it. I'm sorry that the books have taken a direction that you and others believe will make it impossible for you to enjoy any future Voyager novel. I do not take issue with your choice not to purchase such novels, including my own.

I would request, however, that you refrain from misrepresenting what I have said.

Kirsten Beyer