Well, that changes the situation.
No it changes nothing, because that's the same what was said in the hundreds and hundreds of posts before. That there are no current plans to bring here back in the foreseeable future.
Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot
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No it changes nothing, because that's the same what was said in the hundreds and hundreds of posts before. That there are no current plans to bring here back in the foreseeable future.
"... for now...", I believe, was the rest of the original quote.
Thrawn, I have to admit I am way out of my league arguing with you on this point. You are obviously well read when it comes to Trek. To be honest, I never had that much of an interest in Trek until Voyager. Endgame left me hanging and I bought the relaunch novels right away and read all four of them as fast as I could. I kept checking Christie Golden's website to see if she ever had plans to continue the books. I heard about Peter David's book and was very excited until I heard about Janeway's death, so I decided to skip it. Now there's Full Circle. I just have to wait and see what others say before I make up my mind whether to buy it.
I am obviously a new fan when it comes to the books. But I feel the rug has been pulled out from under me. Thank you for your well thought out point of view and at least understanding where I am comming from.
I apologize; I don't mean to seem overbearing or intimidating. I do understand where you're coming from, and like I said, I totally understand if Janeway's death is a dealbreaker. I just think this thread is full of enough hysteria already, that we shouldn't exaggerate any further. Fair enough?
And as for DS9, well actually, I never watched DS9 at all, I just started with Avatar (the first book in the relaunch). I mean, I've since gone back and watched most of the really important ones, but I had no problem just knowing the characters and reading Avatar's timeline, jumping right in.
That's quite alright, I wasn't trying to accuse you of being overbearing or intimidating. I was trying to say that I am at a strong disadvantage in arguing my feelings with you because I've obviously not read or know Trek to the extent that you do. I was not trying to exaggerate anything, I really do feel as I have stated, but I will obviously lose in any debate against you to that end.
I don't think I will be reading any Trek novels anytime soon. At this point my next goal will be to watch DS9. Perhaps I will fall in love with that series the way I fell in love with Voyager. In the mean time, I will just wait and see what people say about Full Circle. Again, thanks for your time and understanding.
JOYOFVGR
I would have to agree on both these points and as for the companion, I would have to say, apart from Russel T Davies book last year on the creative process of Doctor Who, it is one of the best books on how things are done when it comes to a TV series.
Wow, just wow. After 3 long threads on Janeway being dead someone has finally included some information I can use. I had no idea such a book existed. Thanks man...
It really is a fantastic book, one I cannot recommend highly enough to anyone interested in the writing process in general or in Doctor Who in particular. Apparently there's been some talk of a follow-up book dealing with the production of the specials in 2009 - if so, I'll be first in line to grab it when it comes out.
OK, sorry for butting in - we now return you to your regularly scheduled Dead Janeway Complaint-Fest.
Who gives a shit about 5 or 6 years? And an...appearance.
A simple 'guest' appearance isn't going to cut it.She has fans, who will buy books NOW - not in 5-6 years!
Statements like this one still get me up in arms - obviously since I'm here.
Thrawn, you and I have crossed paths before, but I think it's a bit patronising to say 'maybe in 5-6 years'. Screw 5-6 years!Oh well...never mind. Just had to get that off my chest. You can't say 'maybe in 5-6 years' to somebody who likes the character - at least not somebody like me.
Who gives a shit about 5 or 6 years? And an...appearance.
She has fans, who will buy books NOW - not in 5-6 years!
Statements like this one still get me up in arms - obviously since I'm here.
Oh well...never mind. Just had to get that off my chest. You can't say 'maybe in 5-6 years' to somebody who likes the character - at least not somebody like me.
Good point.
Who gives a shit about 5 or 6 years? And an...appearance.
She has fans, who will buy books NOW - not in 5-6 years!
Statements like this one still get me up in arms - obviously since I'm here.
Oh well...never mind. Just had to get that off my chest. You can't say 'maybe in 5-6 years' to somebody who likes the character - at least not somebody like me.
You totally misinterpreted my post, Gorf. I have said like 7,000 times that if Janeway dying is a dealbreaker for you, I completely understand and respect that decision. How many more times do I have to say that?
I was addressing Lynx's post wherein he was drawing a distinction between Kes & Wesley's pseudo-deaths on the TV show and Janeway's pseudo-death in the books. Lynx seemed to be ok with the first and not the second, which annoyed me because they're exactly the same situation. IF he was satisfied with one, I saw no reason to be dissatisfied with the other.
You are clearly not satisfied with either. Which is fine. I'm not saying you should be happy with one appearance in 5 years, and I never did.
Who gives a shit about 5 or 6 years? And an...appearance.
She has fans, who will buy books NOW - not in 5-6 years!
Statements like this one still get me up in arms - obviously since I'm here.
Oh well...never mind. Just had to get that off my chest. You can't say 'maybe in 5-6 years' to somebody who likes the character - at least not somebody like me.
Before you get too excited, well I think it's too late for that, here's what the author of the next two Voyager books has to say on the subject of Janeway coming back.
Thrawn, while knowledgeable on the subject of ST fiction, is not a spokesman for Pocket Books, nor is he pretending to be. He's just giving his opinion on what he thinks might happen. The people that know for sure aren't saying what's going to happen just yet.
Only 313 more mosts until this thread gets locked? Too many for me, I'm so done with this thread...
Indeed. And why would they? Spoiling events years down the line is silly from a creative standpoint, and from a practical one, it's at least reasonably likely that they haven't even decided yet.
Well, that changes the situation.
And I won't be reading any Trek books in the "foreseeable future either" so it doesn't change that much.
But let us keep the hope for a return of Janeway.
However, I must agree with this statement written by Gorf:
Who gives a shit about 5 or 6 years? And an...appearance.
She has fans, who will buy books NOW - not in 5-6 years!
Statements like this one still get me up in arms - obviously since I'm here.
Oh well...never mind. Just had to get that off my chest. You can't say 'maybe in 5-6 years' to somebody who likes the character - at least not somebody like me.
If Janeway's return will drag out for years and years to come, then I guess that PocketBooks will find it very hard to bring back those who will stop reading the books because of the treatment of Janeway.
And I can understand the frustration here. There was a time when I really waited for someone to bring back Kes. Now I know that it will never happen, at least not in the way I want. The only thing to expect in that case would be further character destruction.
So I write my own Kes stories instead.
That could be an example to follow for dissatisfied Janeway fans as well.
I'm sure there will be no shortage of fan fic stories in that regard, Lynx. Once again, TPTB have only motivated these talented writers.So I write my own Kes stories instead.
That could be an example to follow for dissatisfied Janeway fans as well.
Again, I never said that. I was annoyed at Lynx's inconsistency. I never said fans of the character should be satisfied with one appearance in a timespan of years.
We disagree on plenty, let's not be making shit up to disagree on on top of that.
Not making things up. You said 5-6 years down the road...and I'm simply telling you that THAT is a load of crap.
She has fans now - she won't in 5-6 years. Well, she will, but they won't be buying Star Trek books because we will have learned our lesson or I will at least.
Pocket Books just dont prioritize Voyager and they apparently don't hold Janeway in very high esteem either since she's apparently so...expendable.
I've read statements like 'she might not be dead', 'she might come back', 'maybe in 5-6 years...' - well it doesn't mean shit.
To me all these statements is like patting me on the head and say 'now, now, maybe you'll get what you want, just wait...say 5-6 years'. That I do see as being patronizing to me and my feelings.
Take it anyway you like, Thrawn, but that's how I see it. No misunderstanding there and if you don't like that - don't say it.
Okay, then there's nothing we can say to you that won't be patronizing. You won't accept, "Yeah, she's dead, so get over it", either. It's not in our power to grant you any of your wishes. I have to wonder, if you're so sensitive to the death of a favourite character, why you continue to distress yourself by posting on a bbs about ST literature?
My favourite TOS character was Spock. He was killed off with no intention of him returning. Kirk was also killed off, with no intention of him returning. A character from TMP I used in my fanfic was killed off in "Ex Machina". It happens to be a favourite novel, despite the character death. The Enterprise and the Enterprise-D were both killed off. Data, my favourite TNG character, was killed off in "Nemesis". Yar and Jadzia went, too. Trip was killed off in ENT.
I can either accept these deaths, hope for miracle resurrections, or accept that they're gone. ST is more than one character. People assured me they'd be back - and in my heart I knew it, too - so how is that patronizing? And most of them did return.
It's science fiction. SF characters have a habit of not staying dead. It would be refreshingly different for someone to stay dead long enough for people to mourn.
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Therin, most of the characters you have named were “killed off” because the actor expressed the desire to discontinue playing the role, Kate Mulgrew has on numerous occasions expressed a desire to play Kathryn Janeway again. In the case of Spock, Leonard Nimoy reversed his original decision. I also think with hindsight being twenty-twenty both Terry Farrell and Denise Crosby might not have chosen to leave their respective series.
Data’s death is tied up with the aging of Brent Spiner. Date does not age but actors do, however Brent Spiner can play a Data that appears older (as in Data’s knowledge in another android body – hint hint – the reset button we were given). These comments do not include Trip’s death because I don’t know much about “Enterprise” and her characters but apparently Trip was popular enough that Trek Lit did bring him back.
You can have all the “refreshingly difference” you want, just don’t do it at our expense.
And fan opinion had everything to do with Leonard Nimoy’s change of heart. (Of course the money wasn’t bad either.)
The biggest argument for keeping Janeway dead that I’ve heard here is “bringing Janeway back would spoil my story.” How about killing her has spoiled our stories, do we not have that same right. All we are saying to anyone here is that we don’t want “one last glorious story” we want Kathryn Janeway alive. You don’t have to use her in any of your books, but don't kill her off either.
Brit
Data’s death is tied up with the aging of Brent Spiner. Date does not age but actors do, however Brent Spiner can play a Data that appears older (as in Data’s knowledge in another android body – hint hint – the reset button we were given). These comments do not include Trip’s death because I don’t know much about “Enterprise” and her characters but apparently Trip was popular enough that Trek Lit did bring him back.
You can have all the “refreshingly difference” you want, just don’t do it at our expense.
And fan opinion had everything to do with Leonard Nimoy’s change of heart. (Of course the money wasn’t bad either.)
The biggest argument for keeping Janeway dead that I’ve heard here is “bringing Janeway back would spoil my story.” How about killing her has spoiled our stories, do we not have that same right. All we are saying to anyone here is that we don’t want “one last glorious story” we want Kathryn Janeway alive. You don’t have to use her in any of your books, but don't kill her off either.
Brit
But there is nothing going to be *any* more TNG era shows with any of those character, so who gives a shit? why should the authors care about the wishes or desires of the actors? they are writing about the characters not the people playing them.
If they did that, Neelix would be getting it on with Janeway.
That in itself is rather patronizing if you ask me, which of course you didn't. Of course you can say things to me that aren't, but patting me on the head and saying 'no, no it will be ok, just forget about it and buy some of the other books...' That's what comes across in all these posts and that's what I'm objecting to.
You're quite right about that. I won't. You really have no clue how I feel about it or whether I'm over her death in the book or not.
Being over it does not mean accepting it. As I've said repeatedly if you argue with me, I'll argue with you. If you stop, I'll stop. I will NOT be told to just wait and see without speaking my mind. Plain and simple.
Never said it was.
Hell I don't expect you or anybody else here to change a damn thing - not even your opinions, but I will speak my mind about things such as 'maybe she'll magically return in 50 million years...' Ok, so I exaggerated a bit here - sue me.If you don't want me to, don't write it.
Oh and you're doing and awfully good job ignoring the very real fact that Janeway fans like me won't be picking up a Star Trek book in 5-6 years just because Pocket Books by some miracle suddenly decides that they want us back as customers at that time.
Easy...because you do. This is where the argument is and so therefore this is where I am as well.
I'm not really all that sensitive about her death. I have a choice there and that's to not buy the books, which is exactly what I'll do. I can live with that.
What I AM sensitive about are the 'just wait...' remarks over here. I'll stop when you stop saying things like that so it's really up to you guys.
You're assuming that I'll be wanting to read about all those other characters. They've cannibalised my favourite show and killed of my favourite character. I don't think I'll be worrying about the other series.
Thrawn, I have to admit I am way out of my league arguing with you on this point. You are obviously well read when it comes to Trek. To be honest, I never had that much of an interest in Trek until Voyager. Endgame left me hanging and I bought the relaunch novels right away and read all four of them as fast as I could. I kept checking Christie Golden's website to see if she ever had plans to continue the books. I heard about Peter David's book and was very excited until I heard about Janeway's death, so I decided to skip it. Now there's Full Circle. I just have to wait and see what others say before I make up my mind whether to buy it.
I am obviously a new fan when it comes to the books. But I feel the rug has been pulled out from under me. Thank you for your well thought out point of view and at least understanding where I am comming from.
I apologize; I don't mean to seem overbearing or intimidating. I do understand where you're coming from, and like I said, I totally understand if Janeway's death is a dealbreaker. I just think this thread is full of enough hysteria already, that we shouldn't exaggerate any further. Fair enough?
And as for DS9, well actually, I never watched DS9 at all, I just started with Avatar (the first book in the relaunch). I mean, I've since gone back and watched most of the really important ones, but I had no problem just knowing the characters and reading Avatar's timeline, jumping right in.
That's quite alright, I wasn't trying to accuse you of being overbearing or intimidating. I was trying to say that I am at a strong disadvantage in arguing my feelings with you because I've obviously not read or know Trek to the extent that you do. I was not trying to exaggerate anything, I really do feel as I have stated, but I will obviously lose in any debate against you to that end.
I don't think I will be reading any Trek novels anytime soon. At this point my next goal will be to watch DS9. Perhaps I will fall in love with that series the way I fell in love with Voyager. In the mean time, I will just wait and see what people say about Full Circle. Again, thanks for your time and understanding.
JOYOFVGR
You may find you love DS9 as much as Voyager! Though not a captain I found Kira Neryse a very compelling character - warts and all. And she's delicious evil in the Mirror-Verse epis! Voy and DS9 are my two favorite series- there was a lot of time to develop characters and you will find yourself eventually even rooting for Cardassians! I found the "making your enemy your ally/friend" very Trek-Like even in dark times like the Dominion War.
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