Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot

[joyofvgr]

Yeah. But I really was disappointed with his character. I stated in another post that I thought his character had so much potential in Caretaker. I couldn't wait to see what the writers had in store for him, but I was very disappointed. I didn't hate him but I really thought he could have been so much more.

I am not disappointed with his character - I am disappointed that it was ridiculously underused. By that, I mean that what we were shown was pretty interesting, but we weren't shown nearly enough and it wasn't used to the advantage of the character or the show. Why set up this potentially interesting person and then use him mostly to say "Shields up!" It's just silly. And wasteful.

I think it sort of goes hand in hand. For example, he used to go on vision quests in the earlier seasons, but that stopped and there was never any explanation about what those quests were. How did he get those visions. Were they all just in his mind or was there more to them? Wesley experienced one in TNG, so I thought they would go more into it, but they never did. What about Chakotay's heritage? From what I understand they weren't consistant with what tribe he was from, based on the elements of his culture that they showed. Also, they spoke about him being from either Dorvan or Triebus, but never expanded on how coming from another planet might have impacted his background, other than the Cardassian devastation. He started out to be a very strong Character, a Maquis Captain, but then barely said more than two words (Shields up) through many of the seasons. I know that Christie Golden attempted to take his character further is Spiritwalk, but I wasn't really crazy about all of that either.

 

[Lynx]

I think that Chakotay was a great character who could have been used much better.

He had an interesting background story and the potential the become the best Number One of all of them and the writers just wasted all of that. I can understand why Beltran was so frustrated and angry. It can't be fun to watch how the character gets les and less screen time and trying to come up with ideas and suggestions which ar constantly rejected by those in charge.

Chakotay started good and was OK for three seasons, then they wasted him. Sad, really.

 

[ronny]

Chakotay had dialogue that for me was as unmemorable as you could get. I've watched all of Voyager and I can remember exactly 1 line of dialogue.

To Tuvok after finding out Seska was a Cardassaian:

"You were working for her, Seska was working for them ... was anyone on that ship working for me?"

Aside from some of Tuvok's lines that was one of the funniest lines in the show.

 

[Thrawn]

Chakotay had dialogue that for me was as unmemorable as you could get. I've watched all of Voyager and I can remember exactly 1 line of dialogue.

To Tuvok after finding out Seska was a Cardassaian:

"You were working for her, Seska was working for them ... was anyone on that ship working for me?"

Aside from some of Tuvok's lines that was one of the funniest lines in the show.

It's funny; Chakotay was supposed to be a total badass, Maquis leader and all, and his first major development was having Tuvok betray him. And his second was having Seska betray him. And then, soon after, Janeway intentionally deceived him about Paris's "betrayal" also. And by that point, it seemed pretty clear that Chakotay was a total bleeding moron, to me...and the show never gave him a chance to kick enough ass to make back any of it. I really think that Chakotay simply never recovered from being messed with so many times in the first couple seasons; he never had a chance to really show his stuff.

 

[Mriana]

I thought he was quite the gentleman. I'm not so sure he would have been attractive to so many women if he were a total "badass".

 

[elaithin]

I honestly consider him a non-entity, unfortunately. I wanted to like the guy, I did, but... there was just very little there to work with.

 

[Mriana]

Oh I think there was a lot to work with, but that is my opinion.

 

[JustKate]

^ I agree. There was a lot of material to work with, but nobody did so.

 

[joyofvgr]

Chakotay had dialogue that for me was as unmemorable as you could get. I've watched all of Voyager and I can remember exactly 1 line of dialogue.

To Tuvok after finding out Seska was a Cardassaian:

"You were working for her, Seska was working for them ... was anyone on that ship working for me?"

Aside from some of Tuvok's lines that was one of the funniest lines in the show.

It's funny; Chakotay was supposed to be a total badass, Maquis leader and all, and his first major development was having Tuvok betray him. And his second was having Seska betray him. And then, soon after, Janeway intentionally deceived him about Paris's "betrayal" also. And by that point, it seemed pretty clear that Chakotay was a total bleeding moron, to me...and the show never gave him a chance to kick enough ass to make back any of it. I really think that Chakotay simply never recovered from being messed with so many times in the first couple seasons; he never had a chance to really show his stuff.

I agree. I loved when he punched one of the Maquis in Learning Curve and how he swore to protect Tom Paris, after Paris saved his life in Caretaker. I wouldn't have expected him to be a "total bad ass" as he had to also be a decent enough starfleet first officer, but he definitely should have had more of an edge to him.

 

[Trent Roman]

I thought Chakotay was a waste of space. It's bizarre to see "Caretaker" and its angry Chakotay in light of how fast the character was, to borrow an expression recently used vis-à-vis Neelix, "Flanderized" into a guy who basically stood about and was supportive and accepting and did little else. It's telling that his best moments come when he's being a foil to Janeway, as in "Scorpion" or "Equinox", when the differences in their worldviews come into play.

My favourite Chakotay episode was "Nemesis". Technically, it's an episode that could have worked with anybody else, but was much stronger for using such a high-minded character.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Mriana]

My fave was Resolutions. Great epi, with both KJ and Chak. He was hardly a waste of space there.

 

[kimc]

Oh I think there was a lot to work with, but that is my opinion.

I agree Chakotay appeared to have plenty to work with...oh, you guys are talking plotwise.

Seriously, it seems once they abandoned the background they had set up for him they weren't quite sure what to do with him next.

 

[joyofvgr]

I've read many fan fics where Chakotay has a stronger personality (i.e., Alpha Chak). I love that verson of him!

 

[elaithin]

See, and that's the shame of it. You shouldn't have to go to fan fiction to see a viable version of the character.

 

[donners22]

My favourite Chakotay episode is Unforgettable - because I fell asleep half-way through.

Funny how Chakotay and Neelix were so interesting in the pilot, yet became the two weakest characters. Then again, at least Ethan Phillips seemed to be trying in the final seasons.

 

[Tachyon]

Personally I don't see Neelix as a weak character. IMO, Harry was much weaker than Neelix, for instance.

Chakotay... the version of him in seasons 1-3 was quite different than during the later seasons. One of my favorite Chakotay episodes is definitely Maneuvers. Chakotay was good in it. I also liked him in Initiations with Nog... *cough*, sorry Kar.

 

[Gorf]

Never really been a real fan of Chakotay or at least that's how I remember it now. I know the actor influenced the way I viewed the character negatively after the show ended so I'm always a little unsure when I started feeling the way I did. After all I do believe in J/C.

I agree though that Neelix wasn't a weak character. I liked Neelix. Harry was definitely the weakest character on the show for me in later years.

 

[Thrawn]

It always amused me how in every single alternate universe or alternate future (CLB's Places Of Exile included) Harry always turned into some stone-cold hardass, but in the actual main timeline he never got much beyond charmingly naive.

 

[JoeZhang]

It always amused me how in every single alternate universe or alternate future (CLB's Places Of Exile included) Harry always turned into some stone-cold hardass, but in the actual main timeline he never got much beyond charmingly naive.

After recent conversations here, I went back and had another look at old wounds and Harry still seems to be a putz in the current timeline (but at least he's now not the oldest ensign in Starfleet).

I forgot about that old sub-plot about the resentment of people towards the voyager crew - it seemed odd at the time and more so on second reading...

 

[joyofvgr]

Personally I don't see Neelix as a weak character. IMO, Harry was much weaker than Neelix, for instance.

Chakotay... the version of him in seasons 1-3 was quite different than during the later seasons. One of my favorite Chakotay episodes is definitely Maneuvers. Chakotay was good in it. I also liked him in Initiations with Nog... *cough*, sorry Kar.

I agree, Tachyon. I loved both of those episodes.

And back on topic here for a moment, you know, "dangle a carrot." I recently found out that Homecoming and The Farther Shore were best sellers and the fastest selling Trek books in 2003. Now I don't really follow the Trek market, so it's possible there wasn't any stiff competition in 2003. However, I think this should have been enough to show TPTB that there is a market for the continuation of the Voyager story. There were also a lot of hints at J/C in excerpts leading up to the release of those books, which may have influenced their sales. In spite of this they chose to kill off Captain Janeway in a TNG novel and leave her dead. I just hope this is some kind of publicity stunt and set up for a grand return.