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A Question about New Earth/Ex Machina era...

BTW, was it ever considered to just continue with Challenger, even without Diane Carey? Or was that always supposed to be her "baby" (similar to the NF and Peter David)? Or did Chainmail in particular sell so badly that it was considered easier and better to create another series within the TOS-timeframe with Vanguard?

I'm sure that Vanguard was never conceived as a "replacement" for Challenger. They were from different editors, after all. Vanguard was a series Marco Palmieri developed with Dave Mack as an attempt to take an alternative look at the TOS era using modern storytelling techniques, developing the events of that timeframe more fully and revealing historical patterns and trends that tied the events of TOS and the movies together into a larger tapestry. It served an entirely different purpose from Challenger, which was a John Ordover-developed series (or potential series, rather) whose purpose was to give Diane Carey her own distinct region of the galaxy to play around in without connecting much to the other series (or so it seems to me).
 
I think you'll do fine, Paris; you'll miss a few details, but the overall gimmick for the series is straightforward enough that you'll be able to catch up pretty quickly in Challenger.

It's been a while since I read it, though, so someone else can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that...
 
I'm sure that Vanguard was never conceived as a "replacement" for Challenger.

I didn't try to imply that. And I do think that post-TOS universe could support quite a few more series (after all, in post TNG-times we have a lot more series, then in TOS/VAN-setting. Why ist that so, BTW? Just to avoid continuity-mistakes?)

It served an entirely different purpose from Challenger, which was a John Ordover-developed series (or potential series, rather) whose purpose was to give Diane Carey her own distinct region of the galaxy to play around in without connecting much to the other series (or so it seems to me).

That exactly was my question. It's just a shame IMO that she lost interest in it after a mere 2 books (counting from Challenger).
 
It served an entirely different purpose from Challenger, which was a John Ordover-developed series (or potential series, rather) whose purpose was to give Diane Carey her own distinct region of the galaxy to play around in without connecting much to the other series (or so it seems to me).

So Challenger was meant to be Diane Carrey's New Frontier. Gotcha... :bolian: ;)
 
And I do think that post-TOS universe could support quite a few more series (after all, in post TNG-times we have a lot more series, then in TOS/VAN-setting. Why ist that so, BTW? Just to avoid continuity-mistakes?)

I don't think there's any specific reason for it; it's just that there's so much more continuity established in the 24th century that there's more to spin off of, and because that was the "present" era for so long that it was the natural point to branch off from. In promotional terms, if you're creating a new tie-in series, you're better off tying it into a current show that people are watching than to a decades-old show.
 
Ordover started New Frontier, and then started several similar projects with particular authors having total control - VOY relaunch, Stargazer, potentially Challenger, etc. The multi-author ongoing series were a Palmieri creation; the largest multi-author thing Ordover commissioned was the A Time To miniseries; all the ongoing series he commissioned were single-author projects.
 
^^That's not quite right. Ordover started SCE as well, and that was always a multi-author series.

I stand corrected. I guess I'd mentally filed SCE as a KRAD project instead (he edited the e-book line, right?); I'd forgotten Ordover started it.
 
So, from what people are saying...books one and six are good and the ones in the middle aren't. If I read the first one and then the last one, will I be hopelessly lost? I've already wasted time reading some novels that weren't up to snuff (like Catalyst of Sorrows IMO).

I'd recommend the L.A.Graf and Jerry Oltion entries, too. They may not mesh with the overall story particularly well: the L.A.Graf book steers clear of references to Carey material, while the Oltion book somewhat mischaracterizes the villain-protagonist Shucoricon because the author wasn't properly informed on Carey's designs on that character. But they are good independently dramatic stories that give different angles to the problematique of Belle Terre. And they are written in styles that completely differ from Carey's, which I consider a major plus in an anthology-style effort.

L.A.Graf do their usual stuff where Chekov gets vindicated on his belief that the universe is out to get him, Sulu and Uhura share nice camaderie, and everybody else is basically on vacation. Oltion writes very good Scotty and McCoy, and introduces sympathetic new characters plus a hard-scifi concept.

Also, these two books between themselves already tell all the important bits of the OTHER two books which I definitely recommend skipping. Neither of the DW Smith efforts is dramatically particularly gripping, and I suspect the good character bits in the latter are thanks to cowriter Rusch. Both books do feature important bits of the story arch, but those are recapped in the L.A.Graf and Oltion efforts. And if one skips these books, one basically removes the element of repetition that otherwise plagues the series...

On the issue of (in)compatibility, New Earth apparently sits somewhere in the middle of the 2270s and steps on surprisingly few toes, despite covering at least a full year of the lives of our main heroes. The only thing that might noticeably conflict with this story arc would be Diane Duane's Bloodwing Voyages saga, and one might argue that this saga is already set somewhat outside the rest of the novel continuity... Although one might also do the mental gymnastics required for making the two multi-book sagas by the two Dianes compatible.

IMHO, of course.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Again, it was a long time ago, but I thought the Graf entry was far and away the worst; I remember REALLY struggling to finish it at all.

But then, IDIC, so it's good to hear the different perspectives.
 
Graf's Rough Trails was my favorite non-Carey contribution to the series.

It was my favourite, period.

On the subject raised a few posts back about someone else taking over Challenger... I don't know if there are many other Trek novelists who'd be sympathetic enough to the core premise of Challenger to want to continue it. Its heroes, after all, are a bunch of ultraconservative, self-reliant (well, aside from needing to be rescued by the Enterprise in every book) libertarians who want to get away from the evil Federation's communist oppression.

Basically, what a series of Challenger novels would involve is: no Starfleet, no Federation, no familiar planets or civilizations. Just some humans out on their own in a strange region of space with some aliens we'd never heard of before who play no part in any other Star Trek fiction. There's basically no Star Trek left in Challenger. It might as well be a non-Trek original SF series.
 
I'm actually re-reading Challenger (later to continue with Chainmail), as part of my re-introduction to Diane Carey's major Trek work :).

So far, Challenger is, as I remembered, quite nice but very "Carey-esque" (can't exactly put my finger on it, but anyone who read Carey's novels would recognize fairly quickly, IMO :p ).

BTW (going OT for a sec), I read First Frontier just before Challenger and found it to be a great piece of TOS fiction - accurate characterization, believable actions etc.. so I'd very much recommended it for Carey and TOS fans :techman:
 
So, from what people are saying...books one and six are good and the ones in the middle aren't. If I read the first one and then the last one, will I be hopelessly lost?

Nope. Book 1 is the initial journey to the colony, escorted by the Enterprise, and Book 6 is the story of the starship assigned to protect and explore the area around the settled colony because the Enterprise is returning to Earth. The middle books are okay, with some interesting stuff, but sometimes conflicting and sometimes repetitive.
 
I hated these books. I forced myself through Book 1 and thought the series was going to get better, but Books 2-5 to me were the same story with a few details changed. Book 6 marginally better but over all I don't rate the series.

On the other hand, I rate Ex Machina very highly. Another one of CLB's great thought provoking books were there are no moustache twirling villains.
 
I tried to read those last week and got part of the way into the 3rd one before I gave up.

I might skip to the last one and see what I think of it.
 
On the other hand, I rate Ex Machina very highly. Another one of CLB's great thought provoking books were there are no moustache twirling villains.

What about Dovraku, the religious fanatic? He's about as much a moustache-twirler as any antagonist I've ever written.
 
I suppose but he didn't really come across that way to me. It has been a while since I read the book and I can barely remember him. The strongest memory I get are of the conversations Kirk has with the female character, whose name I cannot remember either.

Basically I have a bad memory and when people discuss these books I normally have an immediate reaction of whether I like or dislike the books and I much preferred Ex Machina to New Earth.
 
I finished reading Ex Machina a day or two ago, and I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed it; especially the exploration of Kirk's, Spock's, and McCoy's motives for being back on the Enterprise (even if McCoy was "drafted"). I liked that some of the officers we saw on the bridge in TMP were fleshed out, and I enjoyed the parallel's between the religious fanatics on Lorini and religious fanaticism on Earth today. Good job Christopher:techman: Any chance of continuing where you left off down the line?
 
^^Thanks! I'd love to continue in the post-TMP era, but the sales of ExM weren't strong enough to warrant sequels. However, my installment in Mere Anarchy (available in trade paperback next month!) does take place in the period between TMP & TWOK and is in continuity with ExM, though it was written to stand on its own rather than being a continuation of anything specific to ExM.
 
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