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Season 7-Your views...

Hoshi_Mayweather

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Season 7 had stock footage, a maniacal Dukat (which somewhat contradicted the character in earlier seasons), a more quicker and less fleshed out ending....

I am a fan of DS9, but I know Season 7 is not the strongest....

IMO, looking back at the series, Seasons 1-3 prepare us for what is to come (although, there is that one Wadi(sp?) episode I don't care for); 4-6 takes Trek to another level; then, then Season 7...

What do you think?
 
Personally, I've always felt it was the strongest season of DS9: Just as consistent as S5 but more powerful overall and with more powerful individual episodes IMHO. Substantially more consistent than S6 and with top episodes just as good as those from S6.

I also have to add that I've always viewed Dukat's development differently. I actually found it quite intriguing seeing his breakdown and the path he took after that. I also never felt that he became one dimensional. Different but not one dimensional.
His relationship with the Pagh Wraiths wasn't as clear cut IMHO as it's sometimes described. If you look at Covenant, for example, this person actually seems to have developed a form of spirituality and faith. But it's a weak faith marred by his own appetite for power which has always been part of his character.
And I also remember that tingle when I saw him walk the promenade as a Bajoran. I found that absolutely fascinating. Quite the cruel irony, really.

There's only two things that really bother me about the season. One is "The Emperor's New Cloak" which was IMHO as superfluous as it was silly. The mirror universe had long since lost its attraction, and this was just as awful as a mixture of Ferengi story and mirror universe could get, I think.
And secondly, the final confrontation between Sisko and Dukat. Jammer put it very well in his review of WYLB when he said he liked where everyone ended up, but he didn't like how people got there. The final fight is just really underwhelming in comparison to the buildup and everything else going on, I think.

Looking at individual eps, here's how I feel about them (and sorry if I get things mixed up - it's been a while since I've seen DS9):

- Image in the Sand / Shadow and Symbols: Very, very powerful opening, I think. Loved the introduction of Ezri here, loved Ben's quest and the Pagh Wraith 'Benny' vision. Plus it easily juggled about three or four storylines at once like it was nothing.

- Afterimage: Great follow up to the opening episodes. The ending is a bit neat, but it's a good introduction of Ezri on DS9.

- Chrysalis: I've always liked the 'Jack Pack' so this was a welcome episode. It's not as powerful as its predecessor but still quite good, I think.

- Take Me Out to the Holo-Suite: One of my absolute favorite comedy episodes on the show. I also think it was well placed at the beginning of the season. There's a lull in the war in terms of DS9, so I think it works out pretty well here. "Death to the opposition!"

- Treachery, Faith and the Great River: This is one of those little gems that can easily be forgotten, I think. They're not as great or as spectacular as other episodes, but they're great to watch everytime. The relationship between Odo and the Weyoun here is very intriguing and powerful. And the Jake / Nog storyline works surprisingly well alonside it.

- Once More Unto the Breach: A great sendoff for an old warrior. Very enjoyable.

- The Siege of AR-558: Very, VERY powerful episode, I think. This was a really daring take on war and the consequences. Taking Quark along was actually a stroke of genius here, I think. For one, it's interesting seeing him fend for his own when he has to. And secondly, he provided a great external view on the Federation and Starfleet. And Nog's loss of his leg was really powerful, I think.

- Covenant: Somehow, I've always liked this episode. I thought it gave us a very interesting look into Dukat's mind and his way of thinking at this point. The interesting to me is that the old Dukat is still very much there. But there's also a new side to him in terms of his spirituality. He DOES seem to genuinely believe in his 'gods'. But as I said above, part of him's still very much the Dukat who'll look for power. I would have liked to have seen more of the Pagh Wraith cult, actually.

- It's Only a Paper Moon: This is one of the things I always loved about DS9. It took two minor characters and managed to build an excellent episode around them. It fits very, very well within the context of the show at that time (especially where Nog is concerned) but also gives us an interesting view on what the world Vic exists in can or cannot mean to a person. It remains a virtual world that Vic inhabits by necessity and only provides short moments of distraction to 'real' people.

- Prodigal Daughter: This is one of the 'ok' episodes of the season, I think. It gives us some insights into who Ezri is and what her background is. But I actually think this would have worked a lot better had there not been the murder and syndicate angle. I think it could and should have been more 'conventional' on that level. A good idea might have also been bringing Ezri's family to her, foregoing the need to take the story away from the station.

- The Emperor's New Cloak: Well, I suppose there had to be at least one clunker in the season. Well, at least there was only one...

- Field of Fire: Another 'ok' episode. It gives Ezri some more to do, but it doesn't really seem necessary by any means. The murder weapon is probably the coolest thing in this episode (it's also highly alarming, but never mind). It's an entertaining hour if not really needed, I think.

- Chimera: An excellent character piece, I think. It was a very interesting and I think clever choice to question how much Odo had really been accepted by others on the station at this point. It makes some really good points about how people can live and work together but never really cross the void that separates them. It also has some excellent moments between Odo and Kira which IMHO rank among the best moments they had together. Poor Laas, though. Probably died of the Changeling disease he must have contracted from Odo...

- Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang: One last all out fun episode before things really get going, and a good one at that. They may be stretching Vic's popularity here a little, but it's nice to see the team get bound together more strongly again (a similar thing interestingly happened in Take Me Out to the Holo-Suite, btw.). It's a nice homage to Ocean's Eleven, and it's done with style. Plus I love Ben singing at the end (a song with a very fitting title, mind you).

- Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges: An excellent Romulan episode with some of the best use that was made of Admiral Ross throughout the show. Bashir's the perfect one for the part he's playing here. And it's just fascinating to see all the intrigue unravel.

- Penumbra: And so it starts. A strong start that already hints at what's to come.

- 'Til Death Do Us Part: Things are ramped up as many, many things are in motion. Sisko opposes the Prophets, Dukat arrives on the station, more of the Breen. I will say, however, that the whole Worf/Ezri/Julian story isn't my favorite of the season. There are interesting aspects to it (it most REALLY be confusing for Worf, in particular), but some of it comes off a little juvenile, I think (not quite sure it this was here or in other episodes).

- Strange Bedfellows: Excellent stuff on the Damar front. He gets driven away further from the alliance and what he has become. I never would have thought that character could become so interesting and his relationship with Weyoun as fascinating as that between Dukat and Weyoun. Also, I thought the idea of having Winn receive a vision from the Pagh Wraiths was fantastic. After all she's been through and all she's done, it seems both very unfair and very right at the same time. You can definitely see why she chooses the path she does.

- The Changing Face of Evil: One of the true powerhouse episodes in the final chapter. Earth attacked, the Dominion seeming overwhelming, the Pagh Wraiths plans progressing with Winn...things are not looking good at this point. And it's a joy to watch.

- When It Rains: Great stuff in particular related to Kira. What a cruel twist of fate that she would help the same people who killed and tortured her people become rebels. And that she would stand side by side with Damar. It was also great to have Garak and Odo there with her. Plus Odo's disease and the Founder's slow demise is revealed. A lot happening here, and it remains very exciting.

- Tacking Into the Wind: This IMHO is probably the strongest episode in the final ten (and the strongest one of the season). Another real powerhouse with so much going on, yet the show seems to handle it all with such ease, never dropping a ball as things move breathtakingly. Worf's taking down Gowron certainly deserves mention, not only because it sees the demise of a long-time character in the Trek universe, but also because it has Sisko backing Worf in this.

- Extreme Measures: Definitely the weakest link (no pun intended) in the final arc. It's not a bad episode per se. It is really troubled, yes (I've never been too fond of the whole getting into someone's head thing and it looks like the station, the spaceship, whatever - plus I still don't believe they'd have caught Sloan). But there are some nice moments between Bashir and O'Brien. It's also nice to see what they're willing to do for Odo (especially if you think back to Chimera). However, it's just very, very weak in comparison to the other episodes standing tall around it. It also suffers from the fact that previously and after it episodes were easily juggling three to four storylines at a time. And here, everything just grinds to a painful halt except for the one story that isn't as good as it should be. That's probably one of the things that makes it stick out the most. Plus it's just way to easy, really.

- The Dogs of War: I think they really, really should have wrapped up the whole Ferengi stuff before the final episodes. It's just a distraction here IMHO and could have easily been dealt with earlier. Otherwise, this episode is as great as the other final arc ones (with the exception of the previous episode, of course).

- What You Leave Behind: First of all, I adore this episode. It ain't perfect but it just hits so many of the nails on the head that I still think it was a worthy finale. I never could understand why some people were so disappointed. As I said earlier, the biggest weakness to me is the final fight between Dukat and Sisko. But since I actually really like the outcome and what happens to all of the characters, I can live with it. I thought the war received an excellent ending. I found Garak's discovery of what he was going back to and Julian's reaction very powerful and painful. The seperation of Kira and Odo and Odo's return to the Great Link was very moving, I felt. And the feeling of so many people leaving after all this time in general was pretty moving, I think. It was also great seeing Kira take command. She had well and truly earned it. I loved the montage. I thought it did a wonderful job of really letting you think back to everything that had happened throughout the show. It's a real shame they couldn't get Jadzia in there, but what's there is great IMHO. And the final scenes with Kira and Jake at the window, the pullback - wow, just wow. So sad to see the show go after all that time.

So there. My favorite season of DS9 :D.
 
Season 7 is the second best, second only to 6.

Yes, the Dukat thing was a major fubar. No question. However, that is just one aspect of the show, and Season 7 still has many masterpiece episodes in it that are just as strong as the many masterpiece episodes in Season 6.

Yes, Season 7 has 5 of 6 barely-watchable terrible episodes, namely: Chrysalis, Prodigal Daughter, The Emperor's New Cloak, Field of Fire, Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang. But I could name 5 or 6 just-as-terrible episodes from any and every other Season of DS9, so that's nothing new. Season 7 seems to take a disproportionate amount of flack for having a slew of bad episodes, whereas for some inexplicable reason, the other seasons usually get a free pass for committing the same offense to the same degree.
 
Justtoyourleft, that was a well thought out post! :lol:

You even helped me remember some of those I had forgotten...

Navaros, I do agree with some of the things in your post as well....
 
Justtoyourleft, that was a well thought out post! :lol:

Well, it's my favorite season after all. I have to make it look like I've put in at least a little bit of thought :lol:.


You even helped me remember some of those I had forgotten...

I was actually looking up stuff while I was writing. I'm really not sure when I saw these episodes the last times. It's been a few years, in any case.


Navaros, I do agree with some of the things in your post as well....[/QUOTE]

I think he has some good points, too. None of the seasons is free from really bad or boring episodes.

And they always seemed to HAVE TO produce at least one clunker or more per season, didn't they?
Whenever that happened, my friends and I would simply go: "Oh, Ira..." :D.
 
I also have to add that I've always viewed Dukat's development differently. I actually found it quite intriguing seeing his breakdown and the path he took after that. I also never felt that he became one dimensional. Different but not one dimensional.
His relationship with the Pagh Wraiths wasn't as clear cut IMHO as it's sometimes described. If you look at Covenant, for example, this person actually seems to have developed a form of spirituality and faith. But it's a weak faith marred by his own appetite for power which has always been part of his character.
And I also remember that tingle when I saw him walk the promenade as a Bajoran. I found that absolutely fascinating. Quite the cruel irony, really.

I agree!

I do think maybe they could've done better things with that plotline, but to me, it still worked, and mainly because Marc Alaimo sold it with his acting. It could've easily been totally one-dimensional, but especially in Covenant, I still saw complexity. You could really debate whether it was "faith" or another power play on his part, how much was calculation, and how much was pure madness.

In Covenant, when we first see Dukat with his Bajoran followers, I got SUCH a chill down my spine! Man, that's a scary moment...I think Alaimo really studied cult leaders and their mannerisms and interactions, to pull that off. It rings true.
 
Yes, Season 7 has 5 of 6 barely-watchable terrible episodes, namely: Chrysalis, Prodigal Daughter, The Emperor's New Cloak, Field of Fire, Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang. But I could name 5 or 6 just-as-terrible episodes from any and every other Season of DS9, so that's nothing new. Season 7 seems to take a disproportionate amount of flack for having a slew of bad episodes, whereas for some inexplicable reason, the other seasons usually get a free pass for committing the same offense to the same degree.

I agree with this, Season 7 had some bad episodes, but so did all the rest. There was really only one terrible episode this season, and that is The Emperor's New Cloak. Chrysalis, Prodigal Daughter and Field of Fire are boring and padded out a mid-season lull, but I wouldn't call them bad. I hated Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang when I first saw it, but now it has really grown on me; it's not great, but it was fun.

I think it was better than season 6 because season 6 didn't build up to anything. Season 7 built up to the final confrontations, season 5 built up to the outbreak of war, but after the brilliant opening arc, season 6 didn't go anywhere. There was some great episodes, Pale Moonlight being my favourite Trek episode of all, but there was no momentum and I think that held the season back.
 
I thought season 7 was a very good season. Yes, I agree it had a few weak links, but over all I thought it great. Loved this show, my second favorite Trek show after TOS.
 
I'm pretty impressed with season 7 to be honest. I never really had any complaints about Dukat becoming one-dimensional. I can see why people might say it, but to me his character evolution makes sense.

The only two episodes I didn't really enjoy are Prodigal Daughter and The Emperor's New Cloak. It was nice to round off the Mirror Universe arc, I suppose, but Prodigal Daughter stands out to me as the one major clunker in the season. The only other story that stood out for me was Bashir and O'Brien taking a stroll in Sloan's head ... I don't know, something about it never sat quite right with me. Fun, but weird :p

I have to admit I was a little disappointed when I saw WYLB first time round, regarding the re-use of space battle footage, but understand why they did it. To me, it just takes the edge of what should be the most important battle of all.

From a story and character perspective though, they don't come much better than the final chapter arc.
 
Season 7 was alright, but not the best. There were some great episodes, the season opened really well with Image in the Sand, Shadows and Symbols, and Afterimage, and there were some great episodes here and there. My main problem with season 7 though is there were too many times they introduced Ezri, and I didn't like the Dukat storyline. The whole Strange Bedfellows arc with Dukat and Winn bogged down the final Chapter and the episodes that didn't feature that storyline (When it Rains... and Taking into the Wind) were the best episodes. The season ended pretty good with What You Leave Behind, even though I still liked All Good Things... better as a series finale. I thought there should have been a lot more with Sisko and Jake at the end if Sisko was going to leave and join the Prophets.
 
Count me among the ones who like season 7. Season 6 is my favorite...but season 7 is probably second on my list. The war is in full swing, we have alot of excitement with Big Space Battles and their aftermath...and we finally have Damar come to his senses and lead a resistance, which was interesting to watch....especially with Bajoran help (and Kira's help in particular).

Additionally, we have a final outing with the Jack Pack, some Section 31 intrigue...and The Siege of AR-558, which is arguably one of DS9's most powerful and sobering episodes.

My only beef with season 7 has to do with Ezri. Not that I didn't like her, or the actress, because I did. I just thought it was unfortunate that they had to take time away from the war storyline to get her character up-to-speed and give us a reason to care about her.

I'm not sure if it just might have been better to have finished the show without a Dax character. Again, not because I dislike Nichole, because I actually quite like her...AND Ezri. I just felt like the transition from Jadzia to Ezri could not have come at a more inopportune time.

But bottom line - season 7 gets a thumbs up from me.

I don't care about reused battle footage. That's just background stuff, and not important to the STORY, which is the main attraction for me.
 
I definatley think season 7 is one of the best in Ds9, it has some episodes that arent as impacting as others but I enjoyed the episode 'what you leave behind' about cardassia especially
 
Season 7 had its weaknesses.

1. Sisko is Wormhole Alien Jesus.
2. No good explanation as to why the Breen join the Dominion's lost cause.
3. Dukat. I did not like how the pagh wraiths thing turned out.
4. But if they had to do it, tie it into the Dominion War more closely. Some great ideas have been fielded on this forum about how they could have done this.
5. Not enough Romulans (but more than ever, so that was fun).
6. Garak forgetting that Damar killed Garak's girlfriend. Andrew Robinson didn't forget, but then Andrew Robinson gave a damn. Huge misfire here.
7. Stock footage in WYLB. Whatever they had to do to save money for some new FX in the series finale would have been fine. Maybe not making Emperor's New Cloak. Or Badda Bing, Badda Bang. Or even the much-beloved AR-558 (I wasn't all that impressed by warmed-over Platoon, but apparently everyone else was!). How about a shot of the Jem'Hadar bombarding Cardassia from orbit?

But Season 7 had its strengths:

1. Ezri. Again, this might be a minority opinion. She was everything Jadzia was not--for example, interesting.
2. Inter Arma. A bit too clever in its machinations, but a fine episode nonetheless that both celebrated and elaborated on the mythology. It also has one of the best lines in DS9:
"It's a pleasure to meet you."
"Why?"
3. Chimera. One of the best episodes in all DS9, or in all Star Trek.
4. Hey, I even liked Chrysalis. Although the implicit violation of medical ethics is unfortunately not raised to the surface here.
5. Damar vs. Weyoun. Always hilarious.
6. Healing the Cardassian/Bajoran divide, in a small way at least, through Kira's participation in the Cardassian Resistance.
7. The same strengths DS9's always had: with few missteps, continuity and character development were maintained and furthered.

It's a better season than 1,2, or 3. I'd have to check to see how it stacks up against the others, but I suspect it is quite commensurate.
 
I do wish the Jadzia to Ezri switch had happened mid to late season six... that way we wouldn't have had so much time in the final season devoted to introducing her. Still, I mostly liked Ezri....
 
I liked S7 overall, but in many ways it was the most inconsistent season. It had some of the best stuff (Ezri!) and some of the worst - IMHO, the Pah Wraiths etc.
 
Season 7 had stock footage, a maniacal Dukat (which somewhat contradicted the character in earlier seasons), a more quicker and less fleshed out ending....

I am a fan of DS9, but I know Season 7 is not the strongest....

IMO, looking back at the series, Seasons 1-3 prepare us for what is to come (although, there is that one Wadi(sp?) episode I don't care for); 4-6 takes Trek to another level; then, then Season 7...

What do you think?

Which season has more Weyoun and Garak? If 7 has more than 6, I'll take 7, in spite of cartoonish Dukat developments.
 
I do wish the Jadzia to Ezri switch had happened mid to late season six... that way we wouldn't have had so much time in the final season devoted to introducing her. Still, I mostly liked Ezri....

Just watched disc 1 of seaason 7 and I am liking Ezri much more than I remembered. She is pulling off the whole confused-about-who-I-am thing very well. I liked Terry Farrell and I think the shock of missing her blindered me to Ezri's good qualities.
 
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