1701-E - Has the romance between Picard and the Enterprise died?

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

I always had a sense that there was a strong relationship between the captains of the Enterprises and their ships. With Kirk, it almost seemed to be romantic at times. Certainly, the musical theme for the Enterprise (e.g., in ST:TMP) was practically a love theme at times.

Picard also seemed to have a similar love for the Enterprise-D at times, although his feelings for the ship didn't seem to be quite what Kirk's had been. Contrast Picard's reaction to losing the Ent-D to Kirk's reaction to losing the Ent at the Genesis planet. Picard even said something to the extent that he cared more for the Stargazer than the Ent-D when he was talking to Scotty in 'Relics'.

My feeling throughout the movies and novels set post-Generations is that Picard doesn't look at the Enterprise-E quite the same way as he used to look at her predecessor. To me, it seems like an essential relationship - that of the Captain and his Ship - has either disappeared or never evolved with the Enterprise-E. I rather miss the moments where the Captain would give a gentle squeeze to the armrest of his chair during a battle and 'think' to the ship, "Come on, hang in there for one more minute." Sure, it was maybe more of a Kirk thing, but I've seen it there with Picard too.

Maybe I'm being too sentimental, but I've always felt that the Captain should be married to his ship to some degree - that the relationship used to be something more than just a man and a vehicle. I think that's one of the things missing from the stories of the Enterprise-E: I don't see anyone in love with her.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Is it just me?

 

[Plecostomus]

Picard had a ship shot out from underneath him but managed to get some of his crew home. He had a chance to "grow up" in that regard and realize it's not the ship but the crew that matters. In that regard, he was probably upset over the loss of the D but rejoicing that the crew made it through mostly unharmed.

The E-E... even moreso. He's not worried as much about the big hunk of metals and ceramics and plastics... he's worried about what it symbolizes now and the fate of his crew.

 

[MMCL]

Picard saw D and E as his 'tools' to enable his exploration. Stargazer was always his baby.

 

[JNG]

Well, he sure wasn't willing to let the Borg have it in ST: First Contact.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Kirk was really the only (hero character) captain who had that ultra strong bond with his ship. Not that the others didn't care, because many times we see that they obviously do.. It was just focused on more with Kirk and more of an intregal part of his personality.

 

[nx1701g]

Picard saw D and E as his 'tools' to enable his exploration. Stargazer was always his baby.

That's a good point. Just look at his speech to Scotty in Relics.

 

[MMCL]

Well, he sure wasn't willing to let the Borg have it in ST: First Contact.

Correct - because the Borg were taking almost everything from him...

"You broke your little ships. See you around, Ahab."

 

[Christopher]

Well, he sure wasn't willing to let the Borg have it in ST: First Contact.

But that wasn't about his love for the ship, it was about his hatred for the Borg, his refusal to give any more ground to them.

Kirk was really the only (hero character) captain who had that ultra strong bond with his ship.

Not quite the same, but Sisko had a pretty close bond with the Defiant, seeing as how he helped design it.


I don't think it's necessary to have a "love affair" between a captain and a ship. If anything, ST's pattern of having a captain and crew stay together on the same ship for years or decades is very unlike real life. In the US Navy, I gather, captains often serve on one ship for only a few months, maybe a year or so, before being assigned to another one. In a profession where you have to go where you're ordered, it's not particularly healthy to get too attached to any one posting.

 

[FalTorPan]

If anything, ST's pattern of having a captain and crew stay together on the same ship for years or decades is very unlike real life. In the US Navy, I gather, captains often serve on one ship for only a few months, maybe a year or so, before being assigned to another one. In a profession where you have to go where you're ordered, it's not particularly healthy to get too attached to any one posting.

Although I see little reason to compare Starfleet with any contemporary military organization, I agree that it seems silly to keep an entire command staff joined at their proverbial hips for many, many years. Sulu's promotion notwithstanding, the Kirk/Spock/McCoy/Scotty/Uhura/Chekov team seems almost ludicrous by the time of Star Trek VI.

 

[Christopher]

Although I see little reason to compare Starfleet with any contemporary military organization, I agree that it seems silly to keep an entire command staff joined at their proverbial hips for many, many years. Sulu's promotion notwithstanding, the Kirk/Spock/McCoy/Scotty/Uhura/Chekov team seems almost ludicrous by the time of Star Trek VI.

To be fair, there are indications in the movies that they haven't been together that whole time. In TWOK, it's implied that most of the crewmembers have moved on but have reunited for the inspection that coincides with Kirk's birthday. This was more explicit in the script and novelization than the final film, though. After that, in TSFS, the main group chose to join together in going after Spock's body, and then they were still together in TVH and got assigned to the E-A as a joint reward. But at the start of TUC, it was indicated (although, again, far more subtly in the finished film than in the original script) that they had once again gone their separate ways and had been called together for this specific mission.

 

[JNG]

Well, he sure wasn't willing to let the Borg have it in ST: First Contact.

But that wasn't about his love for the ship, it was about his hatred for the Borg, his refusal to give any more ground to them.

The ground in question is the ship. It is fruitless to split hairs on his mental processes, but I think it's sufficient to suggest the ship is not disposable to him in his obvious desire to harm the Borg (a little more than just a "tool" as another poster suggested).

Me, I'd have been warming up that self-destruct a lot sooner.

 

[Nick Ryder]

I dunno, I think Picard wanted get the fuck out of the 21st Century and the Borg were keeping him there and they would have blown up their ship. So guess what they'd be contaminating the timeline even more by having a big fuckin' antimatter explosion right before the Vulcans came around, probably finding "alloys not of this planet'.

 

[Trent Roman]

Picard's experience with the Borg was, not to mince words, tantamount to rape. They engineered with body from within with the naboprobes, hacked and replaced body parts to their content, and the Collective squatted in his mind. To have Borg on his ship was a replication of that violation - once again, the Borg had invaded 'his' interiority. I don't see that, however, as an over-identification with the ship generally, so much as part and parcel of Picard projecting his inner conflicts on the events of the movie writ large.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Christopher]

Well, he sure wasn't willing to let the Borg have it in ST: First Contact.

But that wasn't about his love for the ship, it was about his hatred for the Borg, his refusal to give any more ground to them.

The ground in question is the ship. It is fruitless to split hairs on his mental processes, but I think it's sufficient to suggest the ship is not disposable to him in his obvious desire to harm the Borg (a little more than just a "tool" as another poster suggested).

Oh, come on, his mental processes are the whole point of this discussion. We're not talking about his actions, we're talking about the emotion that motivates those actions. I'll concede that he cared about the ship, since what drove him was his refusal to give up anything more he cared about to the Borg. But it's blatant that what was primarily motivating him at that point was obsession, rage, and hatred toward the Borg, not romantic infatuation with a starship.

Remember, when Lily convinced him to change his mind, the argument wasn't about his feelings for the ship, it was about his obsessive hatred of the Borg. Once she made him recognize that he was basing his decisions on vindictiveness and hate, he was able to switch gears and sacrifice the ship quite readily. Indeed, his valedictory words about the Enterprise-E were almost dismissive. "There are plenty of letters left in the alphabet" is hardly a profession of love for the ship. If anything, it suggests he considers the ship merely an interchangeable part.

 

[LutherSloan]

As posted before, I think it's pretty clear that the Stargazer was the ship Picard felt the most affection for.

 

[TGTheodore]

The only time I felt a true connection was made between the TNG crew and Ent-D were in the episodes "11001001" and "Starship Mine."

Other than that it was usually no more than the "she's a fine ship" kind of stuff.

--Ted

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Considering Picard said essentially that the Stargazer was more important to him in many ways in Relics, I have to agree that she was his 'first love' and as Scotty said, "You don't ever love a woman quite like that again."

I wouldn't go to the extent of saying that Picard looked at the 1701-D as a mere tool, however. Admittedly, I may be reading into it, but he certainly had an affectionate moment with the ship before he left the bridge at the beginning of Starship Mine. Still, it does appear to be quite clear that he never felt for the Enterprise-D what Kirk apparently felt for the 1701.

 

[Nardpuncher]

It's strange for me to think that Picard's been on the E for twice as long as he was on the D.

The voyage of the Galaxy Class Enterprise was 7 years....He's been on the Soveriegn one for 14 or more.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

To me the idea of a romance between the captain and his ship (meaning the ship itself) or the chief engineer and his engines always felt over the top to me. But maybe this is one of the gender things: I have seen men lovingly polishing their cars, the kind who go nearly berserk when someone leaves a small scratch on it by accident. I also think the kind of fans like my husband who watch a space battle in slow motion in order to find out what ships are involved are first of all male.

I can appreciate a ship, a car, whatever but first of all it is a tool which job it is to take me - or the crew - from A to B. A certain attachment between captain and ship is normal in my book but Kirk overdid it, substituting a relationship with his ship with an ongoing, lasting relationship with a woman. It is not as bad as Janeway and her hololover but there are some scenes in TOS I remember when I rolled my eyes.

 

[DimesDan]

It's strange for me to think that Picard's been on the E for twice as long as he was on the D.

The voyage of the Galaxy Class Enterprise was 7 years....He's been on the Soveriegn one for 14 or more.

He was CO of the D for 8 years and it's pretty the same for the E if not nearer 9 years now, but no way has it been 14 years.