Nope. We called it "USSR", Uninterrupted Sustained Silent Reading, but USSR wasn't popular in some places. Our USSR became DEAR.
Trek Lit: Adult only?
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Nope. We called it "USSR", Uninterrupted Sustained Silent Reading, but USSR wasn't popular in some places. Our USSR became DEAR.
I know that when writing my material (and with Mike), I always tried for a PG or PG-13 rating.
That said, I wrote almost all of the most physically-violent scenes in our books, and I didn't censor much. I wanted people to be horrified at what violence is really like.
Marco DID once censor the throat-slashing scene that ends DS9:MG: Cathedral because he felt it went too far. Perhaps it did, or perhaps he was being squeamish. As it reads, it's still pretty graphic and shocking, but I had gone further.
Margaret, meanwhile, hasn't censored anything in our Enterprise books, including the fairly brutal fight I wrote between Archer and Krell in Enterprise: Kobayashi Maru.
I was not responsible for the much ballyhooed F-bomb in that book, however. Furthest I'm comfortable with in a Trek book is the S-bomb.
A side note for brutal fight scenes: Interestingly enough, now that I've been boxing for a while, I know what kind of energy and intensity even 2-3 minutes in a ring brings. Given most TV & movie fights involve no protective gear, plus smashed glass or furniture, and etc. -- AND they generally last longer than 2 minutes -- I actually have a harder time NOW suspending my disbelief watching fight scenes than I do when watching lasers/phasers or transporters or etc. Talk about REAL fiction...
That said, I wrote almost all of the most physically-violent scenes in our books, and I didn't censor much. I wanted people to be horrified at what violence is really like.
Marco DID once censor the throat-slashing scene that ends DS9:MG: Cathedral because he felt it went too far. Perhaps it did, or perhaps he was being squeamish. As it reads, it's still pretty graphic and shocking, but I had gone further.
Margaret, meanwhile, hasn't censored anything in our Enterprise books, including the fairly brutal fight I wrote between Archer and Krell in Enterprise: Kobayashi Maru.
I was not responsible for the much ballyhooed F-bomb in that book, however. Furthest I'm comfortable with in a Trek book is the S-bomb.
A side note for brutal fight scenes: Interestingly enough, now that I've been boxing for a while, I know what kind of energy and intensity even 2-3 minutes in a ring brings. Given most TV & movie fights involve no protective gear, plus smashed glass or furniture, and etc. -- AND they generally last longer than 2 minutes -- I actually have a harder time NOW suspending my disbelief watching fight scenes than I do when watching lasers/phasers or transporters or etc. Talk about REAL fiction...
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I think the recent Titan novel Sword Of Damocles was surprisingly distinctive in terms of writing style; very opaque, long and intense sentences full of sensory detail. Not quite on the level of what you describe, but absolutely recognizable, and not exactly what I'd call "straightforward". It was difficult at times to untangle, but by the end one of my absolute favorite Trek novels.
Captain's Table: War Dragons also used multiple first person viewpoints, IIRC, and the Gorkon book Enemy Territory featured an alien race that had some interesting variations on vocabulary.
I agree that Trek, by and large, isn't terribly experimental in this regard, but there are moments when it tends in that direction...just as, I would say, there are moments when it tends towards fantasy, or romance, or mystery, or crudity, or violence, etc etc etc. No particular book could really be described as wholeheartedly being about any one of those particular things, but Trek certainly does play around in all of them to some extent. It's quite a rich tapestry in the novels these days.
I know what you mean. I've come to view those scenes almost like a choreographed dance. Given the smashed glass, etc. there should be blood spurting everywhere.
Say what you will about the recent Quantum Of Solace, but there's one fight in this movie that totally got this right, early in the film in a hotel scene. Shocking and over in like 10 seconds. That kind of intensity is what I try to imagine just about every time I read a fist fight these days.
I read Trek because I like Sci Fi, future, space adventure stuff. Trek has continuing characters, and after awhile it was getting pretty incredulous that some of them never were in a relationship, had sex, or even kissed. Or, as the Trek universe was explored for over 40 years we never encountered a gay relationship. Early TOS novels made Kirk out to be quite the Lothario, but that maybe got a little silly and the pendulum swung the other way.
I like the more realistic trend of being more inclusive of variations we know of on Earth, and I also liked the exploration of Andorian sexuality. I woudn't want the books to start having obligatory graphic sex or violence. I like strange new worlds and the occasional bold foray into the boudoir.
And I would really like some young adult stories. I don't know what the new movie my jump start, but an Academy series, or Geordi growing up with his mobile Starfleet parents, or a compliation of short stories where our young heroes from across the series decide what they want to do when they grow up [Starfleet] would appeal to me.
I like the more realistic trend of being more inclusive of variations we know of on Earth, and I also liked the exploration of Andorian sexuality. I woudn't want the books to start having obligatory graphic sex or violence. I like strange new worlds and the occasional bold foray into the boudoir.
And I would really like some young adult stories. I don't know what the new movie my jump start, but an Academy series, or Geordi growing up with his mobile Starfleet parents, or a compliation of short stories where our young heroes from across the series decide what they want to do when they grow up [Starfleet] would appeal to me.
Well, it became SSR in my [Kansas] school, so that's where I was getting that.
For my money, David Mack has one of the most literary, lyrical prose styles in the TrekLit verse, as does Una McCormack.
Exactly.
I once saw a fight between 2 teenage girls on a bus that lasted like 20 seconds tops before they were pulled apart. Mainly face punches. When it was over one of them had blood all over herself. Ever since them I've had to suspend my disbelief every time I watch a fight on a tv or movie screen.
I'm thinking of doing a massive cross-series Kzinti invasion story using nothing but LOLcat-Speak. Does that count?
I'm thinking of doing a massive cross-series Kzinti invasion story using nothing but LOLcat-Speak. Does that count?
Don't even THINK of suggesting using that style in an article... Humor in Star Trek is one thing, but it can go too far
In terms of writing style, there are a number of the TrekLit authors whose style is distinctive - the problem that some of the Doctor Who new novels had during the pre-RTD series period was that style could sometimes triumph over substance.
That's always a concern when style trumps content. For every person who enjoys Pynchon, there's ten more who find him obscure and unreadable. Trek books are meant to be entertaining, and I imagine most people don't find dashing their brains on masturbatory, postmodern rhetorical exercises all that fun.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Not me. I'm more likely to read an interesting style with boring characters/plot than I am to read an interesting story written pedestrianly. I find Pynchon's characters off-putting and his plots unbelievably turgid, yet I've still stumbled my way through most of his books for the fascination of how he does it.
What Trent is saying, I'd imagine, is that while people like you certainly exist, you're quite likely in the minority.
Hell, just look at how many people were so frustrated with Sword Of Damocles's writing style, which was unique but hardly approaching Pynchon or anything similar.
Hell, just look at how many people were so frustrated with Sword Of Damocles's writing style, which was unique but hardly approaching Pynchon or anything similar.
Oh, I quite realise I'm in the minority on this one, and that's fine. I'm not suggesting that all Trek novels be turned into postmodern masterpieces, or chutnified, or anything like that! Any more than those who would like to see greater violence or actual sex scenes think they should be in every novel, I imagine. I agree that most Trek books should be accessible to kids (although I also think that there are a lot easier ways for any child to get access to sex and violence than reading Trek in an indiscrimate effort to find them).
But having a line of Trek geared specifically to the adult market could blow open new creative avenues.
But having a line of Trek geared specifically to the adult market could blow open new creative avenues.
I see your point, but do disagree, as I've stated above; but aside from that, I just have to mention that your suggestion gives me a very funny mental image. I'm imagining one of those Ordover-era Trek books with like 15 different things on the cover, with a little spiky sticker saying "NOW WITH HARDER TO UNDERSTAND SENTENCES!" or something like that, and it makes me laugh. I don't think that's an accurate representation of your idea, it just amused me.
Anyway, what I've seen over the last 15 years is a steady progression to more adult-themed and adult-appealing novels; certainly, Vanguard if nothing else is substantially more difficult to read and uses substantially more mature themes than anything published while TNG-VOY were still on the air. I'd say there's a chance, as TrekLit progresses over the next few years, that it moves further in that direction.
Anyway, what I've seen over the last 15 years is a steady progression to more adult-themed and adult-appealing novels; certainly, Vanguard if nothing else is substantially more difficult to read and uses substantially more mature themes than anything published while TNG-VOY were still on the air. I'd say there's a chance, as TrekLit progresses over the next few years, that it moves further in that direction.
I found a few scenes in recent novels uncomfortable - some that were meant to be, some that were just unnecessary. It's not a major issue for me, but I would think the current novels are less appropriate for children than they once were. It's not that they are now more mature in any sense of complexity, it's just that there seem to be fewer restrictions.
Thrawn said:
Heheh. I was picturing Trek novels with a Scarlet A on them. I was also picturing the group of children, stampeding away from the crayon and teen vampire section, fighting over who got to get the new Trek books, and then tossing them down in a squalling tantrum on finding that they'd picked up postmodern instead of porn.
Hopefully though, the little sods'd spend their pennies on buying a copy first, thus successfully knocking J.K. Rowling off the top of the genre bestseller lists at least once in the course of the year.
I like a bit of stylistic flair myself... but I also have a hard time imagining an effective Star Trek novel as written by Jeanette Winterson or Paul Auster...
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