My TOS shuttlecraft (continued)...

[BK613]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ On my design the inner doors are strictly two sliding panels because the if the lower half of it swung down it would have nowhere to go in a double hull structure. The outer access hatch works just as was seen onscreen.

So how does one then reach the interior of the cabin from the ground? In the class F it was like this.

That is what I was expressing interest in; how you clambered into the shuttle. Sorry I was not more clear in my initial inquiry.

 

[deg3D]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

That's some great stuff dude.

deg

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ On my design the inner doors are strictly two sliding panels because the if the lower half of it swung down it would have nowhere to go in a double hull structure. The outer access hatch works just as was seen onscreen.

So how does one then reach the interior of the cabin from the ground? In the class F it was like this.

That is what I was expressing interest in; how you clambered into the shuttle. Sorry I was not more clear in my initial inquiry.

Confusion can arise from how the ship is depicted onscreen. Unfortunately they tried to show it as just one hatch that separated the interior and exterior. But if you want to keep things in reasonable proportion then that becomes impossible and you have a double hull structure as I've drawn. Now to enter the craft activating the outer control will open both inner and outer hatches. And exiting the craft the inner hatch control would work the same way and open both hatches. Now I can envision the hatch controls working something like a single-click or double-click setup determining whether you wish to open only one or both hatches at a time.

*Sigh* I didn't get any work done last night as I'd hoped to finish off the inner hull drawings. I must have been more tired than I thought after work because when I got in I just put my head down for a bit while I caught some news on TV and the next thing I knew I woke up at 10pm or so. I'll try not to do that again this evening because I'm eager to get started on the spaceframe.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Ah, I think the question being asked here isn't how the doors open and close - but how a person standing in the open doorway is going to reach the ground, which is quite far down at this scale, or how a person standing on the ground is going to reach the doorway, which is at his waist level.

Is there a deployable ladder there? Is it integrated to the outer lower hatch somehow, or is it separate? Or is there a tiny elevator there, or an inflatable slide, or what?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ There is a fold-out step plate on the nacelles which I've included and is seen in use onscreen. My scaling up from the onscreen mockup's 22ft. to 26.4ft. fortunately doesn't make enough of a difference to impair using the same step plate setup.

Onscreen we've never actually seen the step plate fold out when the hatch is opening, but it's reasonable to assume that that is what actually happens. Or the plate automatically folds out when the landing pads extend from the nacelles upon landing and remains that way until the ship lifts off and the landing pads retract. It could work either way.

I've been mentally dodging it in a way, but perhaps it would be best if somewhere in my drawings I actually show what both shuttlecraft would look like with their respective hatches open, particularly the Class H. I'm toying with an idea of devoting a sheet to each ship designated as "Showcase" which would show something of 3 or 4 stylized artist's depictions of the ships.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

The nacelle step could be a kick-in step instead of an extending one, necessitating no mechanism other than the foot of the user.

But that only works with Class F, right? Class H has the nacelle in the wrong place, not beneath the door. In fact, the very reason for the nacelle move is given in the text as "it would block the door now that it's bigger than in Class F".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ Precisely. The gangway part of the hatch on the Class H would swing down further towards the ground with built in steps that fold out of it. Somewhat like you see on Learjets and other executive aircraft.

I can describe it, but it would be best if I show it.

The Class H design is an indulgence on my part. If "The Slaver Weapon" had been done as live-action then there's little doubt they would have just used the familiar Galileo design as the Copernicus. Indeed, I originally envisioned the Copernicus in my project as a Class F configuration with but a few small changes such as the impulse engines, the hatch windows and different detailing on the nacelles as well as my still planned interior differences. But I indulged in the idea of if TOS had had the resources to fabricate a Class F variant to serve as the Copernicus then what could it be like. And the fact that my Class H design is barely 3ft. longer than the F and no wider or taller then it can easily be accommodated within the existing hangar facilities.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

...Yet in most of your exterior views, you have these "access panels" on all four nacelles, even when the only nacelle that needs the panel is the portside one on Class F...

Did the actual prop have this step-panel on both nacelles? I don't remember any views of the starboard side of the prop.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

The construction drawings of Phil Broad (seen on cloudster.com) do show the step plates on both nacelles. And I can accept that since it could facilitate clambering up onto the stabilizer to do a physical visual inspection of the upper hull. We've never gotten a good look at the starboard nacelle on the onscreen mockup so I can't say if they actually included the step plate on that side in the final construction.

http://cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STShuttlecraft/ShuttlecraftPlans/A_Rev_Shuttlecraft_Exterior_Sht_005.jpg

On board ship you'd likely have step ladders of some sort to get onto the upper hull, but planetside you'd need some other method to get up there if you want to inspect your ship for possible damage.

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

But it does highlight the fact that Jeffries might not have been thinking everything through from Day One yet, and might have been forced to compromise a lot after the exterior layout was approved by his bosses.

Timo Saloniemi

This quote is from another thread, but it is on point in both projects.

When I digest the technical references in TG7 I find this I don't think make sense within the context of what is established in TOS throughout the series. Such as draining the phasers for fuel (energy) and yet later firing boosters as if that energy had actually been solid or liquid fuel--I find this very odd.

Furthermore, I'm sure MJ was aware of the size inconsistencies between the fullsize interior and exterior shuttlecraft mockups, but it's still strange seeing things like what seems a bottomless space under the floor seen through Scotty's access panel.

Of course, I understand the practical realities (compromises) of the situation due to '60s era TV production with bulky cameras and no handycams to film in tight spaces, but it's still weird. And, of course, it leads to the inevitable disparities between drawing an integrated "real" shuttlecraft and what we saw onscreen.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Such as draining the phasers for fuel (energy) and yet later firing boosters as if that energy had actually been solid or liquid fuel--I find this very odd.

Would Jeffries have had any hands-on "technical advisor" role in this sort of thing? Or would his influence have ended at the completion of the blueprints or sketches for making the props and sets?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Such as draining the phasers for fuel (energy) and yet later firing boosters as if that energy had actually been solid or liquid fuel--I find this very odd.

Would Jeffries have had any hands-on "technical advisor" role in this sort of thing? Or would his influence have ended at the completion of the blueprints or sketches for making the props and sets?

Timo Saloniemi

True, and I've no way of knowing.

I have but one detail left to add to my inner hull drawings then it's on to drawing the spaceframe beginning this weekend. I generally like how they came out and I've included some fun little detailing that trecknical fans will appreciate.

 

[BK613]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Ah, I think the question being asked here isn't how the doors open and close - but how a person standing in the open doorway is going to reach the ground, which is quite far down at this scale, or how a person standing on the ground is going to reach the doorway, which is at his waist level.

Is there a deployable ladder there? Is it integrated to the outer lower hatch somehow, or is it separate? Or is there a tiny elevator there, or an inflatable slide, or what?

Timo Saloniemi

Thanks Timo that was what I was getting at; I couldn't see how ship entry was going to work on the Class H. Apologies to all for not being more articulate...

 

[Shaw]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Thanks Timo that was what I was getting at; I couldn't see how ship entry was going to work on the Class H. Apologies to all for not being more articulate...

I always thought that the part of the hatch on the F that flips down to become a bridge to the nacelle flipped further down at an angle to become the steps on the H (the same way that older aircraft had the steps built into their hatches).

But maybe I was reading more into this than was there, but it seemed the logical solution to me.

 

[BK613]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Thanks Timo that was what I was getting at; I couldn't see how ship entry was going to work on the Class H. Apologies to all for not being more articulate...

I always thought that the part of the hatch on the F that flips down to become a bridge to the nacelle flipped further down at an angle to become the steps on the H (the same way that older aircraft had the steps built into their hatches).

But maybe I was reading more into this than was there, but it seemed the logical solution to me.

Well I saw two issues.
It doesn't seem like the door will clear the nacelle (based on the side plan)
and, the separation of inner and outer doors means that any steps had to be contained within the space between the cabin shell and the hull.

Anyway, Warped9 says he's working on it so I'll wait to see what he comes up with.

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ The door of the H will clear the nacelle. You must remember that the side of the main hull is not parallel to the centerline of the nacelle--it's angled a few degrees. And so when the gangway swings down it is doing so at an angle as well and thus will clear the nacelle.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Well I saw two issues. It doesn't seem like the door will clear the nacelle (based on the side plan) and, the separation of inner and outer doors means that any steps had to be contained within the space between the cabin shell and the hull.

I'm afraid I don't see the issues. The Class H door seems to be forward of the nacelle in its entirety, never mind that the trapezoid shape of the lower segment would further help in clearing the nacelle dome. And there's plenty of room between the outer hatch and the inner in Warped9's design, even if the steps of the stairs don't fold up particularly flat.

That said, the distance from floor to ground is still considerable, so the hatch would have to drop to a fully vertical position and still wouldn't quite reach the ground. Which isn't a problem, because the lowermost step can easily be at the height of a foot or two. Or the ladder may telescope down a bit after the hatch is swung.

Incidentally, browsing through the David Winfrey blueprints at http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/class-f-shuttlecraft.php , I noticed commentary on the necessity of having an independent inside-to-outside access in the rear compartment because, as Winfrey says,

"...it is from there that McCoy and Mears emerge, having heard something happening outside."

What is he referring to? Do we at least have to assume the sound insulation of the craft is poor? Or that the acoustics carry sound from outside through the front door very well into the aft compartment?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ I simply accept that as a blunder on the Director's part. In fact much of what I find inconsistent and strange in TG7 (as well as some other episodes) can be directly attributed to poor direction and/or a case of needing a mild rewrite.

True, the gangway doesn't have to reach all the way to the ground much as it doesn't on a Learjet. I'll have to actually draw out how it works because presently I only have a conceptual idea of the H's access setup, but the details need to be fleshed out. Furthermore much of the gangway could be concealed by the sliding upper panels and so the gangway can be at an angle rather than vertical. In fact I rather like this idea because it gives me more material to work with.

There's another advantage to having a double hull setup. The inner hatch opening is a bit smaller than the outer opening and it doesn't align perfectly, unless I were to push it forward more and alter the proportions of the interior layout or if I were to scale up the exterior and I don't want to go through that again. But that's okay because the little antechamber between the two hatches can compensate for that so that they don't have to line up perfectly as they would if there were only one hatch between the exterior and interior.

In some measure I'm doing what is usually done in TV and film. They're in the business of creating illusion and suspension of disbelief, and so am I. When you look at the exterior of my shuttlecraft it looks near exactly like what was seen onscreen to the point that only the learned eye will see the subtle differences. And when you look at the interior it, too, looks pretty much like what we saw onscreen except for the length and height of the cabin. Today constructing a shuttlecraft as I've drawn it would be a snap to do and film with handycams. That said it would still be rather sizable. Go out into a parking lot where average sized parking spaces are painted on the ground. Not try to imagine a shuttlecraft about two parking spaces wide and two spaces in length and about the height of a transit bus. Now you'll have a reasonable idea of the shuttlecraft's size as I've scaled it.

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Done.

I've only got to come up with some notations for each sheet.

In case someone doesn't know, GNDN stands for Goes Nowhere Does Nothing and LCBU means Looks Cool But Useless.

The two large boxes on the starboard side above the LCBU panels are storage for emergency life support suits. From the inside the upper wall looks it's made up of seperate panels. Two of these panels can pop outward and slide forward much like the side door of a minivan to allow access to the lifesuit storage bins. The control consoles on those panels can remain in place as the panels are slid open, or they can be easily removed and unplugged just as they can be when the ship is refit for a specific mission.

Of course the swing out bin on the port side holds phasers while the bin on the starboard side holds communicators and a couple of tricorders.

 

[Praetor]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Beautiful and believable. Well-done! I can't wait to read the annotations.