Losing the Peace: Destroyed 1701-E?

[ProwlAlpha]

I am Dayton Ward. yip (heavy breathing) eee

 

[JAG]

I am Dayton

 

[DimesDan]

I am Spartacus

 

[Paris]

Another Dayton over here

 

[Trent Roman]

I break the pattern by being David Mack. Wonder if it's the booze or the porn.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[William Leisner]

I must've done something way wrong; I'm Timothy Zahn.

 

[nx1701g]

I am the Terminator.

And, apparently, this guy is Captain Kirk!

 

[Thrawn]

So I stand by what I said about the TNG bridge looking more futuristic than the VGR bridge. But futuristic isn't always better from a practical standpoint. It's possible that the Galaxy class went too far in embracing aesthetics over functional redundancy, that a cruder design with lots of buttons and lights and consoles is important to have as a backup system in case the high-tech stuff fails. Still, though, under normal circumstances, it should be possible to operate the ship without needing to use most of those consoles, just as with the Space Shuttle.

I think the rest of your argument makes sense, but I wanted to respond to this. This is pretty much another way of phrasing what I was trying to say in the first place - one can imagine, on a galaxy class ship, they had enough space and crew to put all those backups someplace else, but for an Intrepid, they threw it all into the more centralized bridge. Hence more screen real-estate.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I never did care much for the Ent-D's bridge. I appreciate the reasoning behind it, but it still looked like the mezzanine of a 3-star hotel. Coupled with the ridiculous uniforms they started out with, it threw me way the hell off. I didn't exactly shed tears when that ship bit the dust. That bridge looked better in shambles than it did when in use...

I liked other bridges, such as Defiant and Voyager, *way* better. They actually looked professional, not like a jazzy health spa. Although VOY's having two command chairs did look silly, I admit.

 

[JD]

I've always kinda liked the Ent-D bridge myself, I've just always felt it looked comfortable and invinting. Although my favorite is probably the Ent-E bridge, I don't know but I've just always felt it was pretty cool looking.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I've always kinda liked the Ent-D bridge myself, I've just always felt it looked comfortable and invinting.

And there's the problem. The bridge of a ship isn't *supposed* to look comfortable or inviting. It's supposed to be like any other part of the ship - a place to do *work*.

 

[JD]

I can see that, but IMO it really did fit with the tone, and feel of the show.

 

[Christopher]

The original idea behind the TNG design was that the "work" was so automated that the bridge wasn't so much a control center as a sort of boardroom, a place for people to discuss things and make decisions about what needed to be done, with just a few simple keystrokes or voice commands being sufficient to tell the computers to do it. The early designs actually had the bridge and conference lounge combined in the same set, and this was conserved in the final design to the extent of having the little "conversation pit" in the middle with the chief advisors sitting next to the captain and a couple of extra benches for other advisors as needed.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The original idea behind the TNG design was that the "work" was so automated that the bridge wasn't so much a control center as a sort of boardroom, a place for people to discuss things and make decisions about what needed to be done, with just a few simple keystrokes or voice commands being sufficient to tell the computers to do it. The early designs actually had the bridge and conference lounge combined in the same set, and this was conserved in the final design to the extent of having the little "conversation pit" in the middle with the chief advisors sitting next to the captain and a couple of extra benches for other advisors as needed.

Conversation pit...advisors...discussions...lounges...there was Gene Roddenberry's imprint for ya.

It's ironic, really. The Earth Starfleet wasn't military, yet the NX-01 bridge looked the part. The Federation Starfleet is, yet it gave us bridges like the Enterprise-D, which looked anything but.

 

[Trent Roman]

Why do you say Earth Starfleet wasn't military?

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Christopher]

Why do you say Earth Starfleet wasn't military?

Because it wasn't. It was made quite explicit in "The Expanse" that Earth Starfleet and the military were two separate things:

FORREST: His team should be arriving at eighteen hundred hours. I was surprised you asked for them. You think you'll be comfortable with the military on board?
ARCHER: I don't have a problem with non-Starfleet personnel. The General tell me these are the best he has. I'm going to need all the muscle I can get when we cross into the Expanse.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/52.htm

Also from "Home", Hernandez asking Archer for advice on senior officer candidates:

ARCHER: You may want to find someone with more field experience, a MACO.
ERIKA: I'm not sure how I feel about a military officer on the Bridge.
ARCHER: If I were you, I'd talk to General Casey about assigning an entire squad.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/79.htm

 

[ClayinCA]

Dayton, if I get a mental image, you're a dead man... If I--

--whoops, there it is. All right, start looking over your shoulder!

Think you got the wrong guy, there.


Though it's an understandable mistake to make.

Oops! Sorry about that, Dayton.

Though it turns out that I, also, am David Mack. Which I guess means that I'm mad at myself....

 

[Trent Roman]

Why do you say Earth Starfleet wasn't military?

Because it wasn't. It was made quite explicit in "The Expanse" that Earth Starfleet and the military were two separate things:

FORREST: His team should be arriving at eighteen hundred hours. I was surprised you asked for them. You think you'll be comfortable with the military on board?
ARCHER: I don't have a problem with non-Starfleet personnel. The General tell me these are the best he has. I'm going to need all the muscle I can get when we cross into the Expanse.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/52.htm

Also from "Home", Hernandez asking Archer for advice on senior officer candidates:

ARCHER: You may want to find someone with more field experience, a MACO.
ERIKA: I'm not sure how I feel about a military officer on the Bridge.
ARCHER: If I were you, I'd talk to General Casey about assigning an entire squad.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/79.htm

Huh. And yet Earth Starfleet has the same format as its sucessors... Did ENT ever mention if Starfleet officers could be court-martialed for offences?

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[TheAlmanac]

Huh. And yet Earth Starfleet has the same format as its sucessors... Did ENT ever mention if Starfleet officers could be court-martialed for offences?

Yes. Using the same site for my quotes, here is one from "First Flight":

T'POL: You obviously weren't dismissed from Starfleet. They must have found your argument convincing.
ARCHER: Convincing enough. We managed to avoid a court-martial, but they grounded us for three months.

...and here is one from "Kir'Shara":

REED: Permission to speak freely? Admiral Gardner ordered us to return to Earth, yet we've set a course for Andorian territory.
TUCKER: We are going back. We're just taking a small detour first.
REED: Have you told Starfleet you're planning to warn the Andorians?
TUCKER: No.
REED: Have you any idea what the Admiral will do when he finds out?
TUCKER: I'll save you a seat at my court-martial. Is there anything else?

...and here is one from "Affliction":

ARCHER: What the hell does that mean?
REED: I can't say any more.
ARCHER: You haven't said much of anything. You've told me a lot about your father, his years in the Royal Navy. Their tradition of honour and service. How do you think he'll react when he learns you're facing court-martial?
REED: I wouldn't know, sir.

...and finally, here is one from "Bound":

ARCHER: You'll be glad to know my log won't mention your firing on a fellow officer.
TUCKER: I appreciate that.
T'POL: A court-martial would hardly be a fitting ending to this incident.

 

[Trent Roman]

I guess we now have an answer to the question "What other organization than a military one holds court-martials?"

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman