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Creationists tell Sir David Attenborough to 'burn in hell'

I would hope that some of these dancers are suitably attired Scotsmen doing the Highland Fling.
 
They do. That's what "Faith" means: Believing in something... in the face of negative evidence.

No, THAT'S deliberate, willful ignorance and deserves nothing but contempt and derision.
Faith is simply belief in something or someone whether you have a logical reason to or not. A lot of people put their faith in who they voted for this November, for example. The astronauts have faith in the engineers who build the rockets they strap themselves into, and in the administrators to make the right decision when it comes down to "go" or "no go" for launch. So no, it's not willful ignorance, and doesn't deserve contempt. Willful ignorance is when you have actual evidence against something but ignore the evidence, like say creationists ignore all evidence supporting evolution.

I know what you're getting at, but there is a difference, and the point you fail to see that is the point you become like those young Earth creationists, refusing to see anything of value in beliefs you don't hold.

Uh... and the "negative evidence" part which my comment was about? :rolleyes:
 
Astronauts know that theirs is the most dangerous occupation in the world. They aren't blind to the fact. I do not see them having 'faith' in the engineers if they accept that there is a significant chance that something could go wrong. They know that during space travel more than 20 people have died and all of that was down to design/technical mistakes. They are willing to take the chance, to me that isn't faith at all but acceptance of the risks.
I don't see much difference, really, it just seems to me you're resistant to the idea there may be some comparison. For my part, I'm open to the possibility, I just don't put much stock in it, particularly the Judeo-Christian ideal of who or what "God" is. I certainly don't see it as "willful ignorance" to simply believe in God though, which you didn't answer my question about, BTW.
 
To believe in God is to believe something without proof - that is believing by faith alone.

To trust in the compentence of the NASA engineers is to know that they have the proper training and credentials. However I don't think the NASA astronauts have complete trust in ther abilities of the NASA engineers. They certainly wouldn't have 'faith' that they will never die during spaceflight.

BTW I have never said believing in God was wilful ignorance. The nearest I have gotten to that is the say that Young Earth Creationists are ignorant and pigheaded.
 
What's the likelihood of there not being a god?

Define "god"!
Ask RJ, he started it. :p
There's an ironic statement. :D

In the context of this discussion, a god would be defined in part as a supernatural being who exists outside of the Universe, who pre-existed the Universe (which in this scenario has a beginning) and who has no beginning, who is sentient and intelligent and somehow manages to have thoughts and ideas despite having no sensory input, who is infinite in power despite there being nothing to have power over, who is omniscient despite there being nothing to know, who, at some indefinable point, since there was no time, decided to create a universe in some indeterminate place, since there was no place, despite there being no building materials, since nothing existed, based on certain specific physical laws with a certain specific physical structure and a certain unspecific moral code, who created intellgent life in at least one part of that universe for unclear reasons, who briefly communicated with this life form and then retreated into hiding.

I'd say the likelihood of there not being a god is pretty high. :D
 
So I'm guessing that's your belief? Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their beliefs and I'm not saying anything about it.
IMHO the chances are pretty even for both viewpoints, but thats' MHO.
 
^^ Yes, that's the tongue-in-cheek version of what I believe. I would say that the chances of there being an intelligent force behind the Universe is as close to zero as makes no difference.
 
limit as universe approaches infinite, intelligent force approaches zero? :p Kind of reminds me of a quote I saw online that was along the lines of: "The larger a population grows, the more often the laws of Darwin are replaced by those of Murphy." :D
 
I would be interested in seeing what series other Attenborough fans own

I have

1) Attenbrough in Paradise and other Personal Voyages which has on it
*Attenborough in Paradise
*A Blank on the Map
*The Lost Gods of Easter Island
*Bowerbirds: The Art of Seduction
*The Song of the Earth
*Life on Air
*The Amber Time Machine

2) Trials of Life
3) Life in the Freezer
4) The Private Life of Plants
5) The Life of Mammals
7) The Life of Birds

this means I still have a few more to get.

I also have "Great Wildlife Moments" that is narrated by Sir David.
 
I will leave it as you wrote unless someone corrects it. I couldn't find the quote on the web at all.
 
I would be interested in seeing what series other Attenborough fans own

I have

1) Attenbrough in Paradise and other Personal Voyages which has on it
*Attenborough in Paradise
*A Blank on the Map
*The Lost Gods of Easter Island
*Bowerbirds: The Art of Seduction
*The Song of the Earth
*Life on Air
*The Amber Time Machine

2) Trials of Life
3) Life in the Freezer
4) The Private Life of Plants
5) The Life of Mammals
7) The Life of Birds

this means I still have a few more to get.

I also have "Great Wildlife Moments" that is narrated by Sir David.

Nothing so far unfortunately, but I *just* this week upgraded to blu-ray and Planet Earth will be my first BD purchase soon.
 
2) Trials of Life
3) Life in the Freezer
4) The Private Life of Plants
5) The Life of Mammals
7) The Life of Birds

I have those too, plus Planet Earth and The Blue Planet.
I also got his autobiography, Life on Air, which is a fabulous book, as much about the history of nature filming as his own life.
 
2) Trials of Life
3) Life in the Freezer
4) The Private Life of Plants
5) The Life of Mammals
7) The Life of Birds

I have those too, plus Planet Earth and The Blue Planet.
I also got his autobiography, Life on Air, which is a fabulous book, as much about the history of nature filming as his own life.

I think Planet Earth will be next on my list, followed by Life in the Undergrowth. Then will come Life in Cold Blood and the Blue Planet.

I only have three of his books

*Life of Mammals
*Life on Air (which is fabulous but I wish he had told us a little more about his childhood - I really love reading about the childhood of interesting people)
*Zoo Quest for a Dragon - I recently found this 1957 book in a second-hand shop. I have been putting off reading it (which is something I often do with books I really want to read - once you read them there is nothing to look forward to).

The next Attenborough book I will buy is

Amazing Rare Things: The Art of Natural History in the Age of Discovery

It combines my love of art with my love of wildlife (though I believe that Sir David's mainly only contributed the introduction)
 
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