Creationists tell Sir David Attenborough to 'burn in hell'

[Zulu Romeo]

I listened to Sir David on the Simon Mayo show this afternoon on Radio Five Live. He somewhat played down the "hate mail" aspect of the story, saying it was "just a few" letters and that most of his correspondence was positive. Much of the discussion again was about his series about Darwin, his views on natural selection and evolution, and other aspects of his long career.

If anyone missed it, they can get it here (7 days only)

 

[Davros]

I guess these so called Christians forgot about the whole forgiveness thing.

 

[Amaris]

I thought this would be as good a place as any to post this

From BBC Press Office

As part of the BBC's Darwin Season, and supporting David Attenborough's new documentary Charles Darwin And The Tree Of Life, the BBC Archive is taking audiences back 53 years to join David on one of his first adventures for the BBC: Zoo Quest For A Dragon.
First broadcast in 1956, Zoo Quest For A Dragon was the third series of the iconic Zoo Quest show that saw David travel to Indonesia in search of a Komodo dragon.
All six episodes of this ground-breaking series, along with a special interview with David about the evolution of Zoo Quest, are featured in the collection – allowing a new generation to enjoy this series online.
The collection also includes rarely seen photographs dating back to 1955, and previously unpublished documents, and, including audience reports, handwritten letters from Attenborough to the team back in London and letters of thanks to friends he made along the way.



...


The site goes live on the 30 January and the public can see the collection by going online to bbc.co.uk/archive/attenborough.

Free opportunity to watch him in action. *Yoink!*

I guess these so called Christians forgot about the whole forgiveness thing.

The issue here, at least to me, is what has he done that must be forgiven? He's said nothing against anyone. He's not the one that should be asking forgiveness.

J.

 

[Captain X]

They do. That's what "Faith" means: Believing in something... in the face of negative evidence.

No, THAT'S deliberate, willful ignorance and deserves nothing but contempt and derision.

Faith is simply belief in something or someone whether you have a logical reason to or not. A lot of people put their faith in who they voted for this November, for example. The astronauts have faith in the engineers who build the rockets they strap themselves into, and in the administrators to make the right decision when it comes down to "go" or "no go" for launch. So no, it's not willful ignorance, and doesn't deserve contempt. Willful ignorance is when you have actual evidence against something but ignore the evidence, like say creationists ignore all evidence supporting evolution.

I know what you're getting at, but there is a difference, and the point you fail to see that is the point you become like those young Earth creationists, refusing to see anything of value in beliefs you don't hold.

 

[Miss Chicken]

They do. That's what "Faith" means: Believing in something... in the face of negative evidence.

No, THAT'S deliberate, willful ignorance and deserves nothing but contempt and derision.

Faith is simply belief in something or someone whether you have a logical reason to or not. A lot of people put their faith in who they voted for this November, for example. The astronauts have faith in the engineers who build the rockets they strap themselves into, and in the administrators to make the right decision when it comes down to "go" or "no go" for launch. So no, it's not willful ignorance, and doesn't deserve contempt. Willful ignorance is when you have actual evidence against something but ignore the evidence, like say creationists ignore all evidence supporting evolution.

I know what you're getting at, but there is a difference, and the point you fail to see that is the point you become like those young Earth creationists, refusing to see anything of value in beliefs you don't hold.

The difference is that the astronauts 'faith' isn't blind faith. They knew that those engineers have been highly trained to do their jobs, and the atronauts also accept that something might go wrong during the launch and that they could die.

Faith in Obama was reached through listening to him speak rather than relying on a book written two thousand years ago. Most who voted for Obama know rhat he won't fix everything anf that he will make mistakes.

Faith in God means accepting without the same degree of proof that the astromauts and Obama voters have. The astronauts know the engineers exist, know their amount of training, and underdstand that their are humans who can make mistakes. The Obama voted hope that Obama will surround himself with the right advisors to help him.

The believe in the Christian God is to believe in a perfect being who cannot make mistakes. A perfect being that their isn't any concrete proof of.

Young Earth Creationist believe in something despite overwhelming proof that their belief is wrong. They will not believe the proof or attempt to understand evolution therefore the are ignorant and pigheaded.

 

[Captain X]

The difference is that the astronauts 'faith' isn't blind faith. They knew that those engineers have been highly trained to do their jobs, and the atronauts also accept that something might go wrong during the launch and that they could die.

When you're dealing with controlled explosions, it's all about faith, sorry, and I say this with some authority since that's the area I'm going into. And when their faith proves wrong, they die, which is kind of a harsh consequence.

Faith in Obama was reached through listening to him speak rather than relying on a book written two hundred years ago. Most who voted for Obama know rhat he won't fix everything anf that he will make mistakes.

You'll note I didn't name any candidates, because I was trying to be more inclusive. What faith means here is that you hope the person you vote for won't do any serious damage to you or your country and just might do some good while he or she are there while they're at it. Voters must base their decision on the candidates' records (if they have one) and on their gut instinct.

Faith in God means accepting without the same degree of proof that the astromauts and Obama voters have. The astronauts know the engineers exist, know their amount of training, and underdstand that their are humans who can make mistakes. The Obama voted hope that Obama will surround himself with the right advisors to help him.

And when you put your faith in a higher power you let yourself believe you have someone looking out for you, that your life has meaning, etc (all the stuff you usually hear religious people say), and you have ancient stories, clergy, and fellow church members you can surround yourself with to help you out. That's why I personally have no problem with the concept of religion, because I can see the appeal. I just start having problems when they decide to do stupid and/or hateful things, and when they try to lord their religion over others.

The believe in the Christian God is to believe in a perfect being who cannot make mistakes. A perfect being that their isn't any concrete proof of.

So? Faith isn't about proof, it's about believing in something when you don't have proof.

Young Earth Creationist believe in something despite overwhelming proof that their belief is wrong. They will not believe the proof or attempt to understand evolution therefore the are ignorant and pigheaded.

And I agree, but I don't lump all others in with them, nor do I compare belief in something where no proof (for or against) exists with determined belief in something in spite of overwhelming evidence against it. Do you acknowledge the difference?

 

[Miss Chicken]

Astronauts know that theirs is the most dangerous occupation in the world. They aren't blind to the fact. I do not see them having 'faith' in the engineers if they accept that there is a significant chance that something could go wrong. They know that during space travel more than 20 people have died and all of that was down to design/technical mistakes. They are willing to take the chance, to me that isn't faith at all but acceptance of the risks.

 

[Pingfah]

I think you are somewhat stretching the definition of faith there Captain X, or at least redefining it in this context. The faith you describe is not the same thing, it's just the same word.

 

[cultcross]

I think you are somewhat stretching the definition of faith there Captain X, or at least redefining it in this context. The faith you describe is not the same thing, it's just the same word.

I agree. What Captain X appears to be describing is trust, rather than faith. Trust in another human being's ability based on evidence of that ability (qualifications, seeing them speak, etc).

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I think you are somewhat stretching the definition of faith there Captain X, or at least redefining it in this context. The faith you describe is not the same thing, it's just the same word.

I agree. What Captain X appears to be describing is trust, rather than faith. Trust in another human being's ability based on evidence of that ability (qualifications, seeing them speak, etc).

That seems like a debate that's been had in TNZ before, I seem to remember it just went round and round in circles, as things tend to in TNZ.

 

[cultcross]

I think you are somewhat stretching the definition of faith there Captain X, or at least redefining it in this context. The faith you describe is not the same thing, it's just the same word.

I agree. What Captain X appears to be describing is trust, rather than faith. Trust in another human being's ability based on evidence of that ability (qualifications, seeing them speak, etc).

That seems like a debate that's been had in TNZ before, I seem to remember it just went round and round in circles, as things tend to in TNZ.

What slander. We regularly reach well thought out and mutually acceptable conclusions, before wishing each other a pleasant evening.
They should rename it The Gentlemen's Club.

 

[Pingfah]

What happens in TNZ stays in TNZ, apart from that business with you and the goat.

 

[Amaris]

I agree. What Captain X appears to be describing is trust, rather than faith. Trust in another human being's ability based on evidence of that ability (qualifications, seeing them speak, etc).

That seems like a debate that's been had in TNZ before, I seem to remember it just went round and round in circles, as things tend to in TNZ.

What slander. We regularly reach well thought out and mutually acceptable conclusions, before wishing each other a pleasant evening.
They should rename it The Gentlemen's Club.

Hear, Hear!
(wears monocle)


J.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I agree. What Captain X appears to be describing is trust, rather than faith. Trust in another human being's ability based on evidence of that ability (qualifications, seeing them speak, etc).

That seems like a debate that's been had in TNZ before, I seem to remember it just went round and round in circles, as things tend to in TNZ.

What slander. We regularly reach well thought out and mutually acceptable conclusions, before wishing each other a pleasant evening.
They should rename it The Gentlemen's Club.

Would this Gentlemen's Club have poles and dancers? If so I may agree...

 

[ITL]

I agree. What Captain X appears to be describing is trust, rather than faith. Trust in another human being's ability based on evidence of that ability (qualifications, seeing them speak, etc).

That seems like a debate that's been had in TNZ before, I seem to remember it just went round and round in circles, as things tend to in TNZ.

What slander. We regularly reach well thought out and mutually acceptable conclusions, before wishing each other a pleasant evening.
They should rename it The Gentlemen's Club.

You lying bloody rozzer, you are!

 

[Miss Chicken]

And are the ladies of TNZ meant to be content with just forming a Women's Auxillary to this Gentlemen's Club? I think not, we want equality.

 

[Pingfah]

You can join "The Gentlemen's Club".

There you go, equal.

 

[cultcross]

And are the ladies of TNZ meant to be content with just forming a Women's Auxillary to this Gentlemen's Club? I think not, we want equality.

The Gentlefolk's Club?

 

[Bob The Skutter]

And are the ladies of TNZ meant to be content with just forming a Women's Auxillary to this Gentlemen's Club? I think not, we want equality.

You can be "The Ladies of The Gentleman's Club" if you want...

 

[Amaris]

That seems like a debate that's been had in TNZ before, I seem to remember it just went round and round in circles, as things tend to in TNZ.

What slander. We regularly reach well thought out and mutually acceptable conclusions, before wishing each other a pleasant evening.
They should rename it The Gentlemen's Club.

Would this Gentlemen's Club have poles and dancers? If so I may agree...

Why Sir you mock me. Of course it does, and from my very own church.

*harumph*

J.