I imagine myself in the 31st, so I'm frustrated on the best of days. 
Creationists tell Sir David Attenborough to 'burn in hell'
- Thread starter Candlelight
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A
Amaris
Guest
Most of us here tend to frequent the 23rd, no less.
Amen to that!
I imagine myself in the 31st, so I'm frustrated on the best of days.
Oh, you and your fancy sidewarp jumpgate technologies.
J.
Speaking as a Christian who also believes in evolution (well, strictly speaking, in a form of Theistic evolution - more or less 'BioLogos' as Francis Collins describes it) - I've got to say that strict creationists give me the heebie jeebies about as much as strict atheistic evolutionists do.
Nobody who considers themselves a Christian should be sending folks hate mail telling them they can just go to Hell. If they are doing that, they need to revisit the bible.
Nobody who considers themselves a Christian should be sending folks hate mail telling them they can just go to Hell. If they are doing that, they need to revisit the bible.
David Attenborough is brilliant. I have been watching him as long as I can remember.
We know so much more about the world and life thanks to him. Top bloke.
We know so much more about the world and life thanks to him. Top bloke.
Sisko is my captain:
Thanks for your comments. I knew there were believers like you who try to hew to your values, unlike those who sent Sir David Attenborough hate mail. The debate between evolution and creationism does get too heated between both camps. It can be discussed in a civil fashion.
I myself am an agnostic, which means I'm not sure if there is a God, but that doesn't mean I don't believe there can be a God. It may be possible to reconcile the two viewpoints -- there is a God who created the changing Earth where evolution is part of the equation.
Red Ranger
A
Amaris
Guest
There are Christians who believe God set everything into motion, and let the universe take it's course.
J.
Thanks!
Seriously? Would you be able to do a non-refit Excelsior?
I hear this theory a lot from moderate Christians but again, what evidence is there that 'God set everything into motion'. How do they come to that conclusion? Since we don't know, it could be God, aliens, Q, coincidence, natural phenomenon under the right conditions, etc. Why is it so scary to say, "I don't know"?
A
Amaris
Guest
I consider evolution to be the most logical process, however, as a Christian, I believe in God, and believe He is the creator. Therefore, it is reasonable for me to believe that God created the universe and set it into motion. Plus, I've said "I don't know" plenty of times.
J.
I have faith in God - I cannot prove His existence other than to point out what the bible says, what other people say about their relationship with Him, and obviously, to discuss my own personal faith relationship. C. S. Lewis has written some excellent material on that subject which is easily obtained.
I believe there is excellent evidence that suggests that evolution, as is commonly accepted by scientists (I'm currently about to finish my MS in a branch of biology), is probably the root cause of speciation. As a Christian, I do not believe that there is any proof 'out there' of God's non-existence; I believe He exists. Therefore, if evolution (or cosmology, or an ancient-Earth, or what-have-you) is a factual construct, then there should be a way to integrate it into my concept of the world and my faith.
Actually, it's not all that hard to comprehend and agree with the theory of evolution, once you have been educated as to what it entails:
i.e.,
(1) variation exists within populations;
(2) more individuals are born than can survive;
(3) more 'fit' individuals survive the pressures in nature than do less-'fit' individuals;
(4) the 'fit' individuals pass on their genes to offspring in greater proportion than the less-'fit' ones do, thus causing a shift in the frequency of those genes in the population.
1, 2, 3, and 4 and that is the definition of evolution, simply: "a change in the frequency of occurrance of a gene in a population."
Most of the christians I've met who don't buy into evolution simply haven't had the concept properly taught to them. Instead, they've had the misinformed view of "evolution means we came from monkeys" banged into their head by Young-Earth Creationists on the one hand, and the equally misinformed (not to mention rude and insulting) view of "science proves God doesn't exist" from the Atheistic Evolutionists on the other hand. No wonder so many christians throw up their hands when evolution comes up in conversation.
I believe there is excellent evidence that suggests that evolution, as is commonly accepted by scientists (I'm currently about to finish my MS in a branch of biology), is probably the root cause of speciation. As a Christian, I do not believe that there is any proof 'out there' of God's non-existence; I believe He exists. Therefore, if evolution (or cosmology, or an ancient-Earth, or what-have-you) is a factual construct, then there should be a way to integrate it into my concept of the world and my faith.
Actually, it's not all that hard to comprehend and agree with the theory of evolution, once you have been educated as to what it entails:
i.e.,
(1) variation exists within populations;
(2) more individuals are born than can survive;
(3) more 'fit' individuals survive the pressures in nature than do less-'fit' individuals;
(4) the 'fit' individuals pass on their genes to offspring in greater proportion than the less-'fit' ones do, thus causing a shift in the frequency of those genes in the population.
1, 2, 3, and 4 and that is the definition of evolution, simply: "a change in the frequency of occurrance of a gene in a population."
Most of the christians I've met who don't buy into evolution simply haven't had the concept properly taught to them. Instead, they've had the misinformed view of "evolution means we came from monkeys" banged into their head by Young-Earth Creationists on the one hand, and the equally misinformed (not to mention rude and insulting) view of "science proves God doesn't exist" from the Atheistic Evolutionists on the other hand. No wonder so many christians throw up their hands when evolution comes up in conversation.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
These are always the things that make me roll my eyes as well, particularly how Christ was supposed to be all about "turn the other cheek", "love thy neighbor as you love thyself" and the like, a disturbingly large number of Christians seem to want to kill people over what amount to philosophical differences.
There's nothing remotely scientific about "Intelligent Design", which can very easily be shown using real science. It also took a judge in the US all of a few hours to decide ID being taught in schools *cough*Kansas*cough* would break the establishment clause of the first amendment (pesky Constitution...). And I hate to say it, but what it really stems from is an apparent need to remain ignorant out of the need to "prove" their faith, and not wanting their children to question what they're taught in church.
The US Supreme Court found that ID is creationism. But if that isn't enough to convince someone (
) a fairly simple exercise in logic shows that any argument for ID would eventually lead to a creationist argument.
I've never heard anybody in the scientific field claim that science proves god doesn't exist. Even Richard Dawkins doesn't claim that as it goes against some very large and very basic tenets of logic and scientific method to do so.
I find that the idea that atheists believe they can disprove the existence of god is most often misinformation spread by religious people. There may be a small number of badly misinformed atheists who believe this is the case but they are few and far between. Atheists more often than not operate from a position of logic, and there is no logical basis for claiming that science disproves god.
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^Exactly. You're supposed to form a hypothesis, design a repeatable experiment to test that hypothesis and see if the results prove you right or wrong.
You cannot design a repeatable experiment to prove or disprove the existence of God, thus the hypotheses "There is a God" and "There is not a God" cannot be tested and thus cannot be proven.
No real scientist would argue otherwise.
You cannot design a repeatable experiment to prove or disprove the existence of God, thus the hypotheses "There is a God" and "There is not a God" cannot be tested and thus cannot be proven.
No real scientist would argue otherwise.
Idiots. Not you fine posters, but those Creationists... Nobody should mess with Sir David Attenborough in any way. He's one of the most admirable people around.
Once again, an example of the most undeveloped members of any social group mucking things up for the rest. Creationism is an inherently limited and flawed theory. And this is a Roman Catholic speaking.
Once again, an example of the most undeveloped members of any social group mucking things up for the rest. Creationism is an inherently limited and flawed theory. And this is a Roman Catholic speaking.
When they have a go a Richard Dawkins, I can kind of understand. He, at least, is openly confrontational to those of faith - even though telling him to burn in hell still gets a massive 
from me.
But David Attenborough? A man who, to my knowledge, has never been openly critical of religious people, and has done so much in the name of conservation and education?
from me.But David Attenborough? A man who, to my knowledge, has never been openly critical of religious people, and has done so much in the name of conservation and education?
I have often felt that such fundamentalists actually have very little faith. They need to shout god exists, because they need to know others believe, and need others validation for their own beliefs. I don't see too many people demanding other people believe the sun will rise tomorrow.
I think that creationists should know better than to go after Sir David Attenborough. He is one of the most admired men in the world.
An opinion poll conducted in Britain in 2006 conducted showed Attenborough to be the most trusted celebrity in the country.
In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, Sir David was voted tenth in the list of "Heroes of our Time".
He is also believed to be the most travelled man in the history of the world.
He has three species named after him
A dinosaur - Attenborosaurus conybeari
An echidna - Zaglossus attenboroughi (Sir David's Long-beaked echidna)
A extinct fish - Materpiscis attenboroughi (which is the oldest known vetebrate to give birth to live young)
An opinion poll conducted in Britain in 2006 conducted showed Attenborough to be the most trusted celebrity in the country.
In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, Sir David was voted tenth in the list of "Heroes of our Time".
He is also believed to be the most travelled man in the history of the world.
He has three species named after him
A dinosaur - Attenborosaurus conybeari
An echidna - Zaglossus attenboroughi (Sir David's Long-beaked echidna)
A extinct fish - Materpiscis attenboroughi (which is the oldest known vetebrate to give birth to live young)
Right. They'll get no sympathy from anyone with half a braincell over this. In British culture, there are very few people more loved and nationally treasured than Stephen Fry, and Attenborough's one of them.
How dare they fling shit at such an articulate, learned, admirable man with their pig ignorant views.
)
Sadly, I have heard otherwise intelligent, scientific people (literally, working scientists) ranting about how "God is a delusion" and that anyone who understands science should "realize that there is no such thing as God." I've also sat through lectures in mild shock that the lecturer felt that university classroom time was an appropriate place to mock Christianity for most of his lecture. At the very least, it was unprofessional.
That is an insulting, arrogant, and out-of-place remark. You are no better than the misguided hate-mailers were. You should consider finding a way to deal with your own need to "fling shit" at people who you disagree with.
