Succinctly explain why the gazelle speech was infamously bad

[Nerys Myk]

Strange analogy, one we can't relate to. (Very few have seen a gazelle being born in Africa.)

Which might be why Archer said this:

When I was in my early twenties on a trip to East Africa, I saw a gazelle giving birth. It was truly amazing. Within minutes, the baby was standing up—standing up on its own. A few more minutes, and it was walking. And before I knew it it was running alongside its mother, moving away with the herd.

Archer's statement doesn't require the listener to have seen a gazelle giving birth. Its not about the birth, but what happened afterwards. Archer was contrasting the gazelle calf's ability to join the herd and run right after it's birth with humanities slow, learn as you go approach to space travel. The point was humans are not like gazelles. The gazelles are not analogous to humans.

 

[ALF]

You were apparently their target audience then.

I would loathe being a member of a target audience.

That would be like witnessing the birth of one hundred gazelles.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Amazing X 100? I'm there!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

James Kirk, in a tight situation: "What do I do now? Well, cripes, my hero Captain Archer got through a few bad patches by blathering on pointlessly at his adversaries. What the whoop, it's worth a try."

 

[Lashmore]

I think you guys over analyse this point.

Archer is human, like you and me. So when he makes a speech up in the moment, I doubt he was rolling it in his head for hours before hand IC (yes the actor was, but not ARCHER) so of course there is likely to be flaws pointed out in it.

The same amount of flaws as the statement "God bless america" who knows if god would ever think america was worth blessing? He may think it a piece of snot, we do not know.

The point is, he used something he knew from experience to point out something he felt he needed to say. Ok, vulcans could have missed the point and said "see this is why you must stay on earth a while longer."

Over analysed, lets simplify-

Archer: "seemed like a good random thought at the time to the situation, get over it."

Don't expect writers to make things perfectly infallible or not spare of the moment, i find speeches with flaws, actions with flaws that can be argued about to boredom, makes something more realistic. Archers not perfect, he's not the smartest guy on earth. Neither are we.

On a spur of the moment, I doubt most of us could have come up with such.

 

[lceb]

I did not know the gazelle speach was considered so bad, but I quite liked it. It seems that Archer and I have watched the same documentary, but I got his point. Now, if the Vulcans didn't, this would be a chance to search it out and learn something more. That's the point of a good speach, no? to be remembered afterwards.

Now, Eed Pleb Neesta. What and where is it?

 

[Gov Kodos]

It is a speech given by Capt. Kirk towards the end of the episode "The Omega Glory. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Omega_Glory

You can see it here
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gutY7NnNuyA&feature=related

 

[lceb]

Thanks, you are very kind. I have the episode on dvd, but I don't remember much, time to review!

 

[Gov Kodos]

No problem, I don't find either speech cringe worthy, or perhaps it's my high tolerance for melodramatic Kirkian cheese speeches.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

When listening to the gazelle speech several things came to mind:

1. When Vulcans are born they are soon running about the delivery room and don't go through a crawling, toddling stage. They need anecdotes to relate to a species with markedly different development.

2. Archer thinks Vulcans, despite spending 100 years with humans, are oblivious to human early childhood development.

3. Whenever a Simpsons episode suddenly inserts zoo animals into the storyline you know it's all downhill from there.

 

[commodore64]

Archer: When I was in my early twenties on a trip to East Africa, I saw a gazelle giving birth. It was truly amazing. Within minutes, the baby was standing up—standing up on its own. A few more minutes, and it was walking. And before I knew it it was running alongside its mother, moving away with the herd.

Archer's statement doesn't require the listener to have seen a gazelle iving birth. Its not about the birth, but what happened afterwards. Archer was contrasting the gazelle calf's ability to join the herd and run right after it's birth with humanities slow, learn as you go approach to space travel. The point was humans are not like gazelles. The gazelles are not analogous to humans.

I think it does. Cliched analogies, and anytime you say "it's like" -- it's an analogy, don't typically work unless you can picture what's happening. It's like riding a bike. Hit the ground running. No one ever says, it's like trapping a hippo. No one, other than those who've seen a hippo, know what that's like and can picture it.

I like Archer! I think overall, one of the flaws the writers had was to rather than make the characters understandable, choose obscure things like water polo for a character to be interested in.

The gazelle speech isn't the worst thing that happened to Enterprise, but ... it didn't seem to hit a home run. The context was strange and we couldn't identify with Archer as he said it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Archer: When I was in my early twenties on a trip to East Africa, I saw a gazelle giving birth. It was truly amazing. Within minutes, the baby was standing up—standing up on its own. A few more minutes, and it was walking. And before I knew it it was running alongside its mother, moving away with the herd.

Archer's statement doesn't require the listener to have seen a gazelle iving birth. Its not about the birth, but what happened afterwards. Archer was contrasting the gazelle calf's ability to join the herd and run right after it's birth with humanities slow, learn as you go approach to space travel. The point was humans are not like gazelles. The gazelles are not analogous to humans.

I think it does. Cliched analogies, and anytime you say "it's like" -- it's an analogy, don't typically work unless you can picture what's happening. It's like riding a bike. Hit the ground running. No one ever says, it's like trapping a hippo. No one, other than those who've seen a hippo, know what that's like and can picture it.

I like Archer! I think overall, one of the flaws the writers had was to rather than make the characters understandable, choose obscure things like water polo for a character to be interested in.

The gazelle speech isn't the worst thing that happened to Enterprise, but ... it didn't seem to hit a home run. The context was strange and we couldn't identify with Archer as he said it.

Where does Archer say "it's like"?

 

[commodore64]

When he says this:

When I was in my early twenties on a trip to East Africa, I saw a gazelle giving birth. It was truly amazing. Within minutes, the baby was standing up—standing up on its own. A few more minutes, and it was walking. And before I knew it it was running alongside its mother, moving away with the herd.

You ever have a friend tell you a work story and you have absolutely no reference and don't get it and then drift out? Welcome to the gazelle speech. I've never seen a gazelle being born, never been to East Africa, etc. The words themselves don't paint a picture that inspires either, a la a poem.

Instead, because he used a story no one gets in somewhat stilted language.

 

[Nerys Myk]

When he says this:

When I was in my early twenties on a trip to East Africa, I saw a gazelle giving birth. It was truly amazing. Within minutes, the baby was standing up—standing up on its own. A few more minutes, and it was walking. And before I knew it it was running alongside its mother, moving away with the herd.

You ever have a friend tell you a work story and you have absolutely no reference and don't get it and then drift out? Welcome to the gazelle speech. I've never seen a gazelle being born, never been to East Africa, etc. The words themselves don't paint a picture that inspires either, a la a poem.

Instead, because he used a story no one gets in somewhat stilted language.

Again, you seem to think that "gazelle" and "Africa" are the key points. They're not. The setting is not important. The animal is not important. It could have been a Cow in Wisconsin or a Moose in Saskatchewan. The point is the animal could run with the herd minutes after birth.

Its nothing like someone telling a story using technical jargon to a group of people who have no background in the profession being discussed. Archer didn;t use any words that the average viewer was unfamilar with. It's more like saying; I was at work today and my I saw my boss act like a total ass. You know what a boss is and you have an idea what constitutes being an ass. It doesn't matter if the the guy works a 7-11 or the White House.

No one gets it? Its pretty simple. Human are not gong to be like a gazelles, they won't be running with the herd just minutes after birth. They are going stumble and fall a few times, maybe skin a few knees, before finding their footing. But given the chance they will succeed.

 

[Captain X]

I would have used a bike or a horse analogy, personally.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I would have used a bike or a horse analogy, personally.

How exactly would that work given what Archer was trying to get a across?

 

[commodore64]

Again, you seem to think that "gazelle" and "Africa" are the key points. They're not. The setting is not important.

You misunderstand. You keep saying, "But that's not the main point." Yes. It's not the main point. However, it's the lead in (meaning it sets up the main point) and few can identify with it.

It would've been better not to talk about it.

I would have used a bike or a horse analogy

I actually agree. We can identify with it and it still is a decent analogy.

 

[number6]

Again, you seem to think that "gazelle" and "Africa" are the key points. They're not. The setting is not important.

You misunderstand. You keep saying, "But that's not the main point." Yes. It's not the main point. However, it's the lead in and few can identify with it. It would've been better for him to not talk about the gazelle and go straight to humans learning and finding their way.

That's just not the Star Trek way. Trek has always done that guay-ass "I've learned something today" speech. Every series. I think they're all equally corny and I don't think the Gazelle speech is an exception, but I do think there have been far worse in all the other series than that one.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Again, you seem to think that "gazelle" and "Africa" are the key points. They're not. The setting is not important.

You misunderstand. You keep saying, "But that's not the main point." Yes. It's not the main point. However, it's the lead in (meaning it sets up the main point) and few can identify with it.

It would've been better not to talk about it.

I would have used a bike or a horse analogy

I actually agree. We can identify with it and it still is a decent analogy.

Uh, no it it merely sets the scene, not the point. The point is set up by what the gazelle calf did after being born. That you get hung up by the setting and the animal being "foreign" just boggles my mind. This is Star Trek! Humans from around the globe and humanoids from across the Galaxy. Infinite Diversity In Infinite Combinations. And you need it to be set in your backyard so you can get it?

I'm still not seeing an analogy. Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't an analogy compare rather than contrast something?

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Archer was talking to a Vulcan. "Horse" and "bike" probably would not have been any more familiar than "gazelle." Looking at the end of the speech, he seemed to have selected the story because he thought it was a good fit for the comparison he was making.

I liked it. It seemed to fit the idealistic, appreciative-of-simple-wonders Archer that I saw in Season 1.

And yeah, for me, compared with "Ee-pleb-neesta..." it's gold.