South Bashing--Hypocritical?
- Thread starter Nerys Ghemor
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True, I wouldn't sport a swastika any time soon. But in a few hundred years who knows
But the confederate flag to me is a little more ambiguous. It is not universally nor near universally used to say "hey I hate black people".
Schools use it for their football teams if their nickname is "rebels". States use it for heritage. The south invented that flag to be used in battle as the REAL confederate flag looked too similar to the US flag. AND some racist groups use it to show their hate.
I don't know, it doesn't matter to me much one way or the other, I just don't like it when people go off on how it is this outrageous symbol of hate, and their is no appropriate time to display it.
An African-American friend of mine who grew up in Tennessee went to school in Boston and lived there for a few years after graduation, and couldn't get back to the South fast enough. He often tells people that he was shocked by how openly racist and segregated the city was - in the heart of the so-called "liberal Northeast."
(To provide context: I have lived in South Carolina for 18 years, and my wife, kids, and almost all of my offline friends are here.)
To address the topic question, it may be hypocritical, but it isn't if the people who are saying there are problems with the south are also willing to discuss problems with their own regions. Some people just want to bitch about everything.
More important to me, though, is: are the complaints useful? Are they just making them to tear down other people to make themselves feel better, as too many people are prone to do, or are they making observations as a starting point for making improvements?
I despise the Confederate Battle Flag. It was flown by people intent on killing American troops, and to that extent, I see glorifying it in any way as disgusting. It certainly does not belong in the symbols or on the grounds of any governmental buildings, except maybe in a historical display where it is not flown.
People need to relearn to show consideration for other people, even when that consideration costs them a tiny bit of "freedom". Yes, you have the right to fly that flag on your truck, wear it on a t-shirt, etc. But it seems to me that there are ways to express what is supposedly expressed by that with other symbols - like the "Don't Tread On Me" flag - that do not remind other people of a time when they were considered property. I have the right to walk into the middle of a nearby mall and begin reciting a list of ethnic slurs, too, but I wouldn't. Sometimes, the right to do something is not a good reason to do something.
I do support those people's right to use the battle flag, though. Aside from my distaste being trumped by the First Amendment, I like the fact that expressions like that give everyone else fair warning that they are dealing with assholes.
To address the topic question, it may be hypocritical, but it isn't if the people who are saying there are problems with the south are also willing to discuss problems with their own regions. Some people just want to bitch about everything.
More important to me, though, is: are the complaints useful? Are they just making them to tear down other people to make themselves feel better, as too many people are prone to do, or are they making observations as a starting point for making improvements?
Indeed.
I despise the Confederate Battle Flag. It was flown by people intent on killing American troops, and to that extent, I see glorifying it in any way as disgusting. It certainly does not belong in the symbols or on the grounds of any governmental buildings, except maybe in a historical display where it is not flown.
People need to relearn to show consideration for other people, even when that consideration costs them a tiny bit of "freedom". Yes, you have the right to fly that flag on your truck, wear it on a t-shirt, etc. But it seems to me that there are ways to express what is supposedly expressed by that with other symbols - like the "Don't Tread On Me" flag - that do not remind other people of a time when they were considered property. I have the right to walk into the middle of a nearby mall and begin reciting a list of ethnic slurs, too, but I wouldn't. Sometimes, the right to do something is not a good reason to do something.
I do support those people's right to use the battle flag, though. Aside from my distaste being trumped by the First Amendment, I like the fact that expressions like that give everyone else fair warning that they are dealing with assholes.
I have been down South numerous times and being half black, I still get dirty looks. My one and only trip to Mississippi was a real eye opener. It was the summer of 2000 and I felt as if I was in a warped universe where slavery didn't end, but the US modernized. The whites were treating blacks like they were dogs, I heard all kinds of negative comments about blacks and I went with a white friend to a restaurant. We were seated in the main dining room with all the whites and all the blacks who came in were ushered back into a side room. I thought it was a party at first until i realized none of them were talking to each other and were staring at me like I was in the wrong area of the place. Nobody said anything to me (they probably thought I was hispanic) but I was glad to get out of that place and I havent been back since. I know not all southerners are racist, but I have run into my fair share of them and these few taint the whole south.
Touche!!
Some idiot adult woman who should know better at one of my daughter's recent Girl Scout meetings was commenting rudely about a white woman they knew. She had married a black man. "What about the children? Doesn't she know how difficult that can make life for them?"
My response: "Oh gods yes. You never know what might happen to those poor kids." <beat> "They might end up end up PRESIDENT or something!"
The difference between the stars and stripes and the stars and bars (both flags of rebellion) is obvious to anyone with half a brain.
One was flown by rebels who sought freedom, the other was flown by rebels who sought to quash it. To suggest the cause of Washington et al and the cause of Davis are Lee are morally equivalent is laughable. One flag flew in the face of oppression, the other in support of it.
One was flown by rebels who sought freedom, the other was flown by rebels who sought to quash it. To suggest the cause of Washington et al and the cause of Davis are Lee are morally equivalent is laughable. One flag flew in the face of oppression, the other in support of it.
Yes, South-bashing is usually, if not always, inherently hypocritical.
Not to mention self-righteous, holier-than-thou, & the very thing {bigotry/racism/prejudice/other/etc} South-bashing purports to be condemning.Being that very thing while in the process of bashing it.
How's that for an ironic kick in the teeth for these “morally superior” folks knocking the South?
And I am not a Southerner at all. Just the opposite in fact. Perhaps the polar opposite, as opposite, of a Southerner as you can get.
Southerner or not, I won't stand for the self-righteous saint brigade(s) unfairly demonizing & stereotyping Southerners.
The South has many cool things, locations & awesome food to boot.
What exactly do these angels get by attacking, villfying & stereotyping the South & Southerners? You feel good about yourself for 5 minutes. Maybe?
You've more than earned your wings saintly angels. So make good use of them & fly away.
Not to mention self-righteous, holier-than-thou, & the very thing {bigotry/racism/prejudice/other/etc} South-bashing purports to be condemning.Being that very thing while in the process of bashing it.
How's that for an ironic kick in the teeth for these “morally superior” folks knocking the South?
And I am not a Southerner at all. Just the opposite in fact. Perhaps the polar opposite, as opposite, of a Southerner as you can get.
Southerner or not, I won't stand for the self-righteous saint brigade(s) unfairly demonizing & stereotyping Southerners.
The South has many cool things, locations & awesome food to boot.
What exactly do these angels get by attacking, villfying & stereotyping the South & Southerners? You feel good about yourself for 5 minutes. Maybe?
You've more than earned your wings saintly angels. So make good use of them & fly away.
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I agree. But not in this case, the way I see it.
But it was the issue underlying all others. Some say "States Rights" or "Regionalism", but that's over intellectualizing it. States rights to do what exactly? Own slaves. The rationale for leaving The Union was their refusal to live under a guy who belonged to The Abolitionist Party. It didn't matter that Lincoln was a moderate, and not exactly the most racially sensitive guy in the world, who only wanted to not have it spread to new territories. They were so fanatical in their belief that slavery was their God given right, they'd murder their own countrymen to keep it. Sure the Joe On The Street would say he was fighting to protect his home and stick up for his state. But that's not why his state joined The Confederacy.
I agree. But not in this case.
I'm from Kansas(sorry
). John Brown is a legend here. His insurrection is also legend. We got over it. The South still hasn't apparently even after 144 years and one of the most lenient post-war policies in history. Evil is evil, no matter how small.
The only Superior Officer from The Confederacy to be executed for war crimes was in charge of the concentration camp at Andersonville. He intentionally let almost 13,000 American troops starve to death.
Same damn thing. It was created to show pride in racism and barbarism. And has been used that way ever since.
Fair enough. Most are stupid rednecks who want to be anti-social.
Yes care at Andersonville was horrible, people died and starved but that is WAAAAY different than nazi camps...where people including women and children, and very few soldiers died and starved, but were also gased, burned and otherwise killed in horrific ways.
By the way, I always thought is interesting (interesting perhaps being the wrong word) that in many cases more soldiers died from conditions in their own camps than ever died on the battle field during the Civil War.
I wouldn't say South=racism.
But I feel a little precarious defending the South pre-civil war. Their establishment needed to be broken up and destroyed.
By the way, I always thought is interesting (interesting perhaps being the wrong word) that in many cases more soldiers died from conditions in their own camps than ever died on the battle field during the Civil War.
I wouldn't say South=racism.
But I feel a little precarious defending the South pre-civil war. Their establishment needed to be broken up and destroyed.
I'm glad you've never had any problems, and I'm sure the majority of people in the South are quite decent, respectful people. But the thing with racism is, people aren't reacting to how you treat them. They've already got some preconceived dislike of you, and it doesn't really matter how nice you are. They'll still probably act very rudely no matter what you do. This isn't limited to a specific geographical region but is true of racists all over.
Totally true. I know I've encountered different levels of racism in different areas, but have wondered how it differs among other ethnic groups within the same region. I do think it's important to note that while bigotry and racism aren't confined to one geographical region, they may have higher incidences within certain regions.
And minorities can be racist, but sometimes I wonder how many people in a majority have actually experienced it. I had a friend who was born and raised in a very charming town in Illinois, not far from me. Eager to show us her hometown, she had my husband and I come visit her. We were sitting outside some cutesy store eating ice cream when a little old woman walked by and made a very racist comment to my husband and I (we're an interracial couple), along with giving us a horrendously dirty look. My friend was completely shocked that someone in her town would be that racist, but she was oblivious to that sort of thing because she wasn't someone who provoked it in others.
Speaking of racism as an abstract is much different than experiencing it. It's ugly and depressing and can easily affect a person's perception of the people living in that area. I guess what I'm trying to say is that someone may not always be aware of racist attitudes around them, and underestimate the impact it has on others.
Well I don't know about flying the swastika, but it's still used as a decorative marking by many Hindus. Obviously more commonly in India than in western countries.
That's pretty poor, in my opinion. If a person has their grammar straight and is talking in a way that makes sense, they should not be judged on their accent. If I judged an immigrant that way, or a New Yorker, or anybody else with a notable regional accent, then I would certainly be condemned for it. Hopefully your awareness that you have a problem means you can take steps to correct it.
I have. You get to see a LOT in customer service, and I have seen that. I had a woman unload on me at work, in the store, because I made a mistake, and she accused me of screwing up because she was black and I was white. Which was completely wrong--I screwed up because I wasn't paying attention, not because I was somehow a racist. In my book, the automatic accusation that I MUST be a racist because I'm white is itself...its own form of racism. I have also had cases where I've seen the same person treat people of their own ethnicity well and then be nasty to me the next minute.
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