South Bashing--Hypocritical?

[Nerys Ghemor]

I'm going to step out of this thread for awhile after I say my piece, and see what people have to say, but this is something I wanted to get out, after seeing this time and time again on this forum.

Let me state first...I UNDERSTAND that there have been horrible things that have happened in the history of the Southeastern United States. I do not diminish those horrors in the slightest. I am very well-versed in my history, thank you very much. I am also aware that the situation is still not 100% when it comes to attitudes, race relations, education, or socioeconomic status.

HOWEVER...I am very tired of the incessant South-bashing. It seems like it's the one remaining socially-acceptable prejudice these days. If I spoke of another nation in the same terms in which people regularly speak of the South, I would almost certainly (and rightly) be derided as a bigot and a racist. If I spoke of poor people in general in the way that people in the South are spoken of, I would be condemned as classist. Yet when people make broadbrush statements about an entire large part of the country, and the people who live there, this is somehow acceptable.

What REALLY burns me is when people decide to paint all Southerners as racists and bigots.

WHILE THEMSELVES MAKING A BIGOTED STATEMENT.

Hypocrisy much????

I am also very angry that I would be held responsible for the crimes of some of my ancestors when I do not share any of the attitudes that they held. Pretty rich coming from people who love a show where a law was passed that "no person shall be held responsible for the crimes of their forbears."

I will also add that I have lived all over the country, as a military brat, and I have seen more than enough evidence that ignorance and racism are NATIONWIDE. The only difference is that because of its particularly violent history, the South is under a microscope no other region must endure. Yet there is more than ample evidence that race relations are unhealthy in many of the places I've lived. There have been riots in California on numerous occasions. Clearly it's not the non-issue there people want to think it is. And I have never seen more FLAGRANT racism anywhere in the nation than like what I saw in the Northeast. My God, the kinds of comments people thought were OK--ewwwww. And that's the only place I've ever lived where some black family friends said they felt uncomfortable going into certain restaurants. If you want to see evidence of the dysfunction up north, research the term de facto segregation. When I moved to that part of the country for the first time, I IMMEDIATELY--even at 9 years old--got a sense that something was desperately wrong, for there to be such a lack of diversity in the community and schools.

Mind you, I am not using these examples to justify bad Southern behavior. What I AM pointing out is that those who would like to point the finger at the South in order to make themselves feel better had better clean up their own damn backyards first. If you want to claim moral superiority in the modern day--then PROVE IT. Show it in the way you live, speak, and act.

And damn well do NOT make the kind of blanket statements you think Southerners think and speak in all the time.

 

[sidious618]

Southerners.



Seriously, though, as a NYer I get the shit treatment down south from most people. They don't much care for us. Especially your police. They really hate us.

 

[trekkerguy]

I tease about the South but only because I am from there.

I am actually very proud of my heritage and family roots, we
are deeply embedded in different parts of the Southern states.

But I am the furthest thing from a Racist or a Bigot and am very
much a Liberal American and citizen of the World and Universe.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Well, I'm from the South, born there and grew up there.

And I don't tease about it. IMO, it's a fucking dump that refuses to do any type of self improvement. The only thing the South has going for it is the weather and the influx of outsiders moving in and breeding out all the hicks that live there.

I don't have any pride in the place, I'm embarrassed by it.

 

[Thrall]

The problem is, is that large parts of The South are proud of it's dark history. And they make no attempts to hide it. Like celebrating the birthdays of traitors. And making the Star and Bars, a symbol of treason and brutal oppression, apart of their state flags. Every where but The South, if you put a Confederate Flag bumpersticker on your car, everyone usually thinks you're a bigoted, redneck, dumbass with no class. But, in The South, it's considered to be "celebrating your heritage" or whatever that means.

Bigotry is everywhere. But it's usually on full display in parts of The South more then other places. So in that regard I think the stereotype is warranted.

 

[trekkerguy]

Wow.

I stand slapped down. I suppose my family and I should
have been "bred out" because we're all born and raised
as native "Southerners".

I see where the "hypocritical" part is now.
"We don't like people of a certain culture so they should
be bred out of existance... because we're better."

 

[Unicron]

* shrugs *

I can only speak for myself, but we try to treat people fairly where I live. We'd only kick you out if you annoy us or something. I'm not proud of the skeletons in our regional closet, so to speak, but I don't try to hide them either. I believe in taking the bad with the good. Nor is every place a "fucking dump" - I live within driving distance of the largest naval station in the world, and several of the nation's key shipyards.

Regarding the Confederate flag, I do agree it shouldn't be used as a part of the state flags or any other capacity that could be considered official or semi-official. The only valid place, in my view, is in the various military cemetaries and in reenactment outfits. Places that celebrate the history of the war, and not the politics of the war. And there's no denying that the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack, and many other flags have bad things associated with them as well as good - try asking a Native American how they like the U.S. flag.

 

[trekkerguy]

Exactly. If you go by certain posters standards then in what way is the
US as a whole exempt from being as contemptible as the "South" is?

Whatever, people can be as closeminded as they like if they put it under
the veil of self righteousness.

 

[Captain Intrepid]

Exactly. If you go by certain posters standards then in what way is the
US as a whole exempt from being as contemptible as the "South" is?

Probably because there are few people in America that are proud of their great moral blunders, while in the south they venerate the an abominable one. That the civil war wasn't about slavery is a lie that's been repeated so many times those who say so now have been indoctrinated into actually believing it.

 

[JuanBolio]

And making the Star and Bars, a symbol of treason and brutal oppression

Its all a matter of perspective, isn't it? To the Brits the Stars and Stripes are a symbol of treason, and to many natives it is no doubt a symbol of brutal oppression as well (as Unicron pointed out).

 

[Hermiod]

To the Brits the Stars and Stripes are a symbol of treason

Meh, not really, British people now don't really care.

 

[JuanBolio]

To the Brits the Stars and Stripes are a symbol of treason

Meh, not really, British people now don't really care.

Well, perhaps not nowadays... which raises the question of why modern Americans, or anyone for that matter, should care about the "treason" behind the Confederate flag.

 

[trekkerguy]

Exactly. If you go by certain posters standards then in what way is the
US as a whole exempt from being as contemptible as the "South" is?

Probably because there are few people in America that are proud of their great moral blunders, while in the south they venerate the an abominable one. That the civil war wasn't about slavery is a lie that's been repeated so many times those who say so now have been indoctrinated into actually believing it.

I am not proud of any moral blunders of the South.

I'm proud of the other traditions I was raised around and took part in,
the diversity I saw there. It wasn't until I moved outside the South that
I ran into extremely racist communities.

I dunno, I enjoyed the food, the hospitality and general neighborliness(no idea
if that's a word ), the music and sports and just the culture of our
communities down there. It's the good things. The problem is there are bad
things, but I've lived in places all over the country and seen just as many
bad things in them as in the South.

People in the South are just generaly more open and brutaly honest about
who they are and what they think. So the racist bastard and close minded
pigs are just more out in the open than they are in other places in the country.

But I doubt there's anymore there than any other place in the country.
People just see them more. I've yet to find as many good hearted kind people
anywhere else, I don't doubt they're around, just not as outspoken as they
are downsouth and I miss that.

People everywhere need to get over themselves and their prejudices.
A prejudice against the South or the people in it is no better than a prejudice
against a black person or a Mexican. Judging a culture for it's past or for
the stand out bad examples simply isn't fair and is just as pig headed as that
redneck that appalls you. Just remember, somebody loves him dearly for who
he is, and that to me is the ultimate show of love.

 

[Roger Wilco]

People in the South are just generaly more open and brutaly honest about
who they are and what they think. So the racist bastard and close minded
pigs are just more out in the open than they are in other places in the country.

But I doubt there's anymore there than any other place in the country.
People just see them more. I've yet to find as many good hearted kind people
anywhere else, I don't doubt they're around, just not as outspoken as they
are downsouth and I miss that.

Politics say differently, and I'm not just talking democratic vs republican. Levelling like that is just as generalising as saying everybody who lives in a specific region is a racist hick.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Southerners.



Seriously, though, as a NYer I get the shit treatment down south from most people. They don't much care for us. Especially your police. They really hate us.

Well, I drove an S10 (with NY plates) to Texas, and all over the deep South and Southeast, the whole area, for around 6 months touring with a band. Had no problems with police. In Florida they stopped me, looked things over, and told me I had so many days to re-register the vehicle in FL.

Had no problems with Southerners, quite the contrary, I crashed on several couches, camped in their yards and on their land, and was never hungry. Even had a brief, but very intense romance when I was there.

I've had much more negative interactions with NY police. But the bottom line is, people are people. If you hold a negative view, you will tend to have those experiences.

So hell yeah it's hypocritical. And I love how the Southern women's accents come out more when they've had a drink or two.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

HOWEVER...I am very tired of the incessant South-bashing. It seems like it's the one remaining socially-acceptable prejudice these days.

Unless you're gay, Muslim, fat, or any number of other things you could easily find with a brief browsing of this board alone, not to mention the outside world.

Persecution complexes and victimization of people in the majority whose interests are well represented by those in power is an issue that a lot of people take umbrage with in these debates.

I am also very angry that I would be held responsible for the crimes of some of my ancestors when I do not share any of the attitudes that they held. Pretty rich coming from people who love a show where a law was passed that "no person shall be held responsible for the crimes of their forbears."

Are you on trial for the crimes of your ancestors? Is anyone blaming you specifically for the actions of the South during the Civil War?

Projecting and making up things that didn't actually happen is another thing people take issue with in these debates.

I will also add that I have lived all over the country, as a military brat, and I have seen more than enough evidence that ignorance and racism are NATIONWIDE. The only difference is that because of its particularly violent history, the South is under a microscope no other region must endure. Yet there is more than ample evidence that race relations are unhealthy in many of the places I've lived. There have been riots in California on numerous occasions. Clearly it's not the non-issue there people want to think it is. And I have never seen more FLAGRANT racism anywhere in the nation than like what I saw in the Northeast. My God, the kinds of comments people thought were OK--ewwwww. And that's the only place I've ever lived where some black family friends said they felt uncomfortable going into certain restaurants. If you want to see evidence of the dysfunction up north, research the term de facto segregation. When I moved to that part of the country for the first time, I IMMEDIATELY--even at 9 years old--got a sense that something was desperately wrong, for there to be such a lack of diversity in the community and schools.

How does saying that the other guy is bad make your point of view look good? We saw this countless times during the campaign where even in topics that specifically said "Tell us the good things about your candidate without criticizing their opponent" supporters of a specific candidate just weren't capable of doing it (I won't name names, but the candidate's name rhymed with the lead character of the 'Die Hard' films). Unfortunately the candidate himself seemed incapable of doing it either.

Criticizing everyone else doesn't tell me anything worthwhile about your point of view except that you clearly think those problems are major in the South so instead of dealing with it or just admitting it you're deflecting the issue onto something else. Which is the third major issue a lot of people have with these kinds of debates.

What I AM pointing out is that those who would like to point the finger at the South in order to make themselves feel better had better clean up their own damn backyards first.

Wait, so individuals shouldn't be able to comment on injustices elsewhere until everything in their own region is cleaned up? Doesn't that completely contradict the entire point you were just making about individual Southerners not being responsible for the alleged attitudes of the region in general? I can't, as an individual, be opposed to racism both in California and in the South until I've somehow eradicated racism here? That makes no sense.

I have no problem with the South or Southerners in general, and I think the people and the region have a lot of great things to offer. What I do have a problem with is the sense of denial about the motives for the Civil War and the glorification of an oppressive regime by some in the South. You can honor your ancestors who served in the war without glorifying the regime they served under. I have the same problem with certain Japanese people who maintain a sense of denial about their country's actions in WWII (especially in China) and I have the same problem with those who continue to justify the rationale for war in Iraq after it's been proven false.

Healing can only begin when the involved parties acknowledge the mistakes of the past and move to change them. The United States has made A LOT of mistakes in the past, but for the most part I think we've been pretty good about acknowledging them and trying to change our actions in the future accordingly. Germany made some terrible mistakes in the past, but as a people they made a concerted effort to confront and learn from those mistakes.

Unfortunately it's been my experience that a lot of (not all or even most) Southerners I've spoken to online or in public seem to be in a sense of denial, carry on the same Southern nationalism (the South shall rise again!), wallow in racism or self-pity, or blame others for their problems. Those are the people who I criticize, not the South or the Southern people in their entirety. Relations can't improve until those people move on.

 

[trekkerguy]

Those are the people who I criticize, not the South or the Southern people in their entirety.

Thank you.

 

[RJDiogenes]

It seems like it's the one remaining socially-acceptable prejudice these days.

Heh. If I had a dime for every time I've heard someone say that their pet peeve is the "last remaining acceptable prejudice," I'd be a billionaire.

"We don't like people of a certain culture so they should
be bred out of existance... because we're better."

Overreact much?

There are many fine people in the South. It's the United States, just like New England, the West Coast, Alaska, Hawaii and everything else we've got. The problem, as others have stated, is that the "South Shall Rise Again" crowd keeps the ancient stereotypes alive. But everybody who lives in the South is not a racist or traitor, obviously; and many do their part to advance American Values.

 

[trekkerguy]

Overreact much?

The only thing the South has going for it is the weather and the influx of outsiders moving in and breeding out all the hicks that live there.

Nope.


Good statement in your post however.

 

[siskokid888]

Hmmm, why would us New Yorkers give grief to a region of the country that is a basically facist fundamentalist religious anti-intellectual gun and murder loving treasonous confererate worshipping (they celebrated Robert E Lee's birthday yesterday) group of seperatists that help impose the worst President in our history on us for 8 fucking years? Can't figure that one out.