More Dollhouse hysteria.

[cynical dreamer]

From:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6628236.html?industryid=47168

Is Dollhouse as bad as we are hearing?
Joss Whedon has an unbelievably loyal fan base, and he really knows how to write to that fan base. I expect that they're going to be there. They're going to enjoy his show. One of the things about airing on Friday night, a show is not expected to have those boffo ratings.
So you're not burying him in the Friday graveyard?
No, I'm not burying him in the Friday graveyard. I'm giving him a little bit of a reprieve by being on Friday.

The part that pisses me off is that there is an assumption that fans of Joss will simply lap up anything he creates regardless of quality.

I agree, as a fan of Whedon, there is a certain lemming-like quality to his fan base and a rather sad cult of personality that you can all witness in real-time over at whedonesque.com

It is possible to be a fan and not be one of the sheep.

Either way, this show is D.O.A. All the warning signs are there. Hope I'm wrong (especially if the show doe end up being good) but it's not looking well.

 

[blockaderunner]

Whedon's style has gotten more and more Whedon-esque over the years. And the unconditional fan worship has made it worse. He should just concentrate on that segment of the audience that still adores him and stick to comics.

 

[Lindley]

When he starts writing stuff that isn't worthwhile, I'll stop watching. Until then, how about we just wait and see?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Whedon went against his own best judgement by agreeing to do Dollhouse with Fox (mostly as a favor to Eliza). He should have went Showtime or Sci-Fi.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

I'm a fan of Joss, so I'm still going to be tuning in. However, I can't help but shake this thought that Dollhouse is not long for this world even before the pilot has aired.

 

[nx1701g]

^ The whole claim that they weren't trying to kill it has me laughing away. Friday nights is bad for ANY show.

Then again I have my fingers crossed for them because of Terminator being the new lead in.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

I'm a fan of his, so I'll check it out, but I'm extremely skeptical. As much as I enjoyed the Faith character on Buffy, Eliza Dusku is a terrible, terrible actress (IMO of course) and I really doubt that she has the chops to pull it off as series lead.

She's hot, though. Which helps.

 

[Thrall]

The part that pisses me off is that there is an assumption that fans of Joss will simply lap up anything he creates regardless of quality.

Because it's true. Buffy Season 6 and 7 were awful, and critically and commercially panned. The content of those seasons alienated many longtime casual viewers and led to it's eventual end. However there remains a large number of Whedon fans who not only defend those seasons to their dying breaths, but feel they were the best of the show. I'm sure there are more then a handful on this board.

Firefly, while good, isn't nearly as good as his fans think it is. Fans should be thankful the show wasn't a hit and it got canned after 13 episodes. They really don't know how lucky they are. Because eventually Whedon would done to that show what he did to Buffy. Zoe and Wash probably would have gotten a divorce after Wash cheated on her with Saphron. Book would have betrayed the group at some point or given up his faith and become a drug addict or something like that. It would have been stupid crap like that and his fans would be defending it every inch of the way.

Serenity is a forgotten mess of a film whose most memorable part involved killing off a well liked character for nothing other then shock and to to beat his audience to death with his nihilistic philosophy of how life is nothing but pain and misery. I know a lot of casual fans who are still pissed off at that. That whole scene summed up what this guys about. If angst were tangible, we could pave roads with all the emo that Whedon dishes out.

I'll wait and see on this one. I love Eliza D, and Whedon is good when he has to keep it simple. But this concept sounds like a tough sell and it's FOX, who wouldn't know a good scripted show if their jobs depended on it, and usually it kind of does. I sadly expect this one to be gone faster then Firefly was.

 

[Ethros]

I'm a big fan of Whedon's work to date, but I can't say I'm overly excited about Dollhouse.
I love Dushku, hell I even like Helo
But the concept/idea I've read about just doesn't grab or interest me. I think if Whedon & Dushku weren't involved I probably wouldn't even consider watching it.

Still, I'll give it a try, hey it may be amazing, may be crap. I'll just check it out whenever it comes along and see

 

[Lindley]

Zoe and Wash probably would have gotten a divorce after Wash cheated on her with Saphron.

Wash probably would have died, actually. Sad ending, but not the one you suggest----in several articles Joss recounts how he had to fight the network to have the two of them be married, because Fox associated "pilot" with "hothead who sleeps around a lot". After all that I don't see him going the cheating route. He's the Xander of the show, and while Xander did some stupid stuff, he never cheated. Well, not except for one little kiss.

Book would have betrayed the group at some point or given up his faith and become a drug addict or something like that.

Drug addict, possibly. And I could see a crisis of faith in this future, as he is confronted by his former actions. But his character is strong enough to come through all that. He's the Giles in a sense----always dependable, no matter how much of his past comes back to haunt him.

 

[Ethros]

yes Firefly only had 14 episodes, and if it had gone on to say 7 seasons* (and 140 odd more episodes) then yes I imagine things would have changed a bit. Charatcers, relationships, life, death, etc
...So what?

Do you wanna watch a show where everything stays exactly the same forever and nothing remotely interesting happens? Maybe stick to the likes of Voyager then


* funny to think if that were the case it would be on its final season now, approaching the finale in a few months

 

[JoeZhang]

Whedon went against his own best judgement by agreeing to do Dollhouse with Fox (mostly as a favor to Eliza). He should have went Showtime or Sci-Fi.

or maybe he just wrote a shitty show? let's all tune in and find out?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Whedon went against his own best judgement by agreeing to do Dollhouse with Fox (mostly as a favor to Eliza). He should have went Showtime or Sci-Fi.

or maybe he just wrote a shitty show?

Unlikely, IMO.

Fox has a well-earned reputation for frakking people over when developing shows. They just can't seem to resist the urge to micromanage and/or studio politic things to death.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Whedon went against his own best judgement by agreeing to do Dollhouse with Fox (mostly as a favor to Eliza). He should have went Showtime or Sci-Fi.

or maybe he just wrote a shitty show?

Unlikely, IMO.

Fox has a well-earned reputation for frakking people over when developing shows. They just can't seem to resist the urge to micromanage and/or studio politic things to death.

Yes, as with not only messing with him when he did his script, to telling him he wasn't providing what they wanted and guilting him into re-filming the pilot.

And let's not forget "24" was post-poned because FOX junked the creators plot and scritps for the new season, giving them short tiem to come up with new stuff and write it out and have it ready for some filming.

Or that "Firefly" was shown out of order.

Or that they trook "The X-Files", started it out on it's Friday night Death Slot, watched the show get good ratings and decided the best way to handle that was move it around to Thursdays, Sundays, and I can't recall the other changes.


FOX can and WILL screw with a show as they feel fit.

 

[Maestro]

The part that pisses me off is that there is an assumption that fans of Joss will simply lap up anything he creates regardless of quality.

Because it's true. Buffy Season 6 and 7 were awful, and critically and commercially panned. The content of those seasons alienated many longtime casual viewers and led to it's eventual end. However there remains a large number of Whedon fans who not only defend those seasons to their dying breaths, but feel they were the best of the show. I'm sure there are more then a handful on this board.

Firefly, while good, isn't nearly as good as his fans think it is. Fans should be thankful the show wasn't a hit and it got canned after 13 episodes. They really don't know how lucky they are. Because eventually Whedon would done to that show what he did to Buffy. Zoe and Wash probably would have gotten a divorce after Wash cheated on her with Saphron. Book would have betrayed the group at some point or given up his faith and become a drug addict or something like that. It would have been stupid crap like that and his fans would be defending it every inch of the way.

Serenity is a forgotten mess of a film whose most memorable part involved killing off a well liked character for nothing other then shock and to to beat his audience to death with his nihilistic philosophy of how life is nothing but pain and misery. I know a lot of casual fans who are still pissed off at that. That whole scene summed up what this guys about. If angst were tangible, we could pave roads with all the emo that Whedon dishes out.

I'll wait and see on this one. I love Eliza D, and Whedon is good when he has to keep it simple. But this concept sounds like a tough sell and it's FOX, who wouldn't know a good scripted show if their jobs depended on it, and usually it kind of does. I sadly expect this one to be gone faster then Firefly was.

As much as I want to tell you that you're full of crap and then threaten to bash your head in... after a moment of rational thought, I realize that you're absolutely right on the mark with this post.

 

[FreezeC77]

Whedon's work on the Runaways comic kinda weened me off the kool-aid. I'm willing to check it out, but if it sucks I'm not sticking around and I'm not expecting to stick around because all the clips I've looked at have sucked.

 

[Thrall]

Zoe and Wash probably would have gotten a divorce after Wash cheated on her with Saphron.

Wash probably would have died, actually. Sad ending, but not the one you suggest----in several articles Joss recounts how he had to fight the network to have the two of them be married, because Fox associated "pilot" with "hothead who sleeps around a lot". After all that I don't see him going the cheating route. He's the Xander of the show, and while Xander did some stupid stuff, he never cheated. Well, not except for one little kiss.

Book would have betrayed the group at some point or given up his faith and become a drug addict or something like that.

Drug addict, possibly. And I could see a crisis of faith in this future, as he is confronted by his former actions. But his character is strong enough to come through all that. He's the Giles in a sense----always dependable, no matter how much of his past comes back to haunt him.

You give Jossy Poo far, far more credit then I do. He doesn't have the creative maturity and restraint to NOT do stuff like I mentioned IMO. His track record proves that.

Do you wanna watch a show where everything stays exactly the same forever and nothing remotely interesting happens? Maybe stick to the likes of Voyager then

That's not the issue. Change isn't the problem. It's what he changes and how he does it. Every time a character has to change(which rarely lasts btw), it almost always involves them becoming nihilistic assholes who end up compromising the group at some point in some manner. Like Angel "going dark". Or The Dark Willow Saga. Or Buffy hooking up with Spike. Pretty much every character does it at some point. That type of character "change" is as predictable as bread. It's usually out of character, but that's irrelevant to Joss as it's always the perfect opportunity to preach about how shitty and horrible life is.

 

[Kelthaz]

I just can't get excited for this show. Nothing I've seen or read about the show has interested me in the slightest. Dollhouse may technically be a Joss show, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like one.

 

[Jax]

The part that pisses me off is that there is an assumption that fans of Joss will simply lap up anything he creates regardless of quality.

Because it's true. Buffy Season 6 and 7 were awful, and critically and commercially panned.

Total B/S infact some critics hailed season 6 as it took a more darker tone, which something Angel was praised for many times. The fanbase may of been split but thats not a majorty. Season 7, even JOSS said he could not care about making everything make sense he wanted to tell a over the top epic ending and he succeded in that.

As for DOLLHOUSE, the show is already dead and even if FOX thought it could of done well on friday nights, the 9pm slot is proof that the network wants out once again despite the last time they did that, they loss a critically loved show with great potential.

SCC as a lead out is just poor, Dollhouse being new had more of a chance to bring in new viewers that might stay on and watch SCC afterwards nut now SCC and FOX will kill Dollhouse and it will probably struggle to break 5 million because SCC will not break 4.

 

[BigFoot]

Personally, I'm trying not to give a crap about all this speculation and all these rumours. I'm just gonna wait for the show to air, watch it, and then make up my mind.