Janeway Died? In Which Book?

[Obi Wana Jones]

Why do they find it obligatory to screw with major characters these days?
I'm still pissed about them killing off Chewie in that other Sci Fi universes.

Couldn't they kill off Neelix or the annoying fat ass doc from Enterprise instead?

 

[aelius]

I spoke with PAD and Marco and Margaret at Shore Leave '08. According to Margaret it was Paramount that insisted on the extra bit with Janeway at the end. She wanted her to be unambiguously dead. Margaret felt that Janeway's story had been told and that her death would provide more story motivation for other characters than her continued presence as an admiral at Starfleet HQ. I asked PAD whose idea killing Janeway was and why. He said he was just a hired assassin and sent me over to talk to Margaret to find out why. He also asked me to come back and tell him why, apparently he never asked when given the instructions to off her.
And to PAD and KRAD and David Mack and all the others at the Meet the Pro's event at Shore Leave, thank you for taking the time to answer yet another fans questions with patience and grace.

 

[Tom]

Did she see her dad like she did in Coda...hmm

 

[Julio Angel Ortiz]

Do we have a full list of all the characters who have been 'killed', but then returned? I can't think of many.

-Spock
-Picard
-Sisko
-Ben Finney (faked death)
-Lyndsay Ballard (from Voyager)

*Cough*Trip*Cough*

 

[sniksder]

I spoke with PAD and Marco and Margaret at Shore Leave '08. According to Margaret it was Paramount that insisted on the extra bit with Janeway at the end. She wanted her to be unambiguously dead. Margaret felt that Janeway's story had been told and that her death would provide more story motivation for other characters than her continued presence as an admiral at Starfleet HQ. I asked PAD whose idea killing Janeway was and why. He said he was just a hired assassin and sent me over to talk to Margaret to find out why. He also asked me to come back and tell him why, apparently he never asked when given the instructions to off her.
And to PAD and KRAD and David Mack and all the others at the Meet the Pro's event at Shore Leave, thank you for taking the time to answer yet another fans questions with patience and grace.

Sorry "her story being told" is a lame excuse to use..

Most likely she wasnt a big Janeway fan, I most likely am in the small group that actually liked Voyager as a tv show, as well as teh charactors from it.

As for PAD saying he was the hired assassin is also lame, he has used that excuse as well when asked on why he did certain story plots for the comics that he writes.

At least in this instance Paramount had the good sense to make them make it cloudy on her being dead.

It's funny in the comic world ther used to be a saying "no one stays dead except for Bucky", well Marvel changed that and brought Bucky back to life.

At some point I am sure Janeway will be resurrected in the Trek book world.

 

[Thrawn]

Obviously all the editors make judgement calls, but I think saying "she just wasn't a Janeway fan" is a bit uncharitable. Admirals, in Trek, are rarely sources of joy and happiness, and as a Janeway fan I think you'd be even more upset if she was just the obnoxious mouthpiece of "no, you can't do that, Starfleet command forbids it" for the rest of time.

Sure, her character could've been kept interesting by someone, but that doesn't mean the story with her dead is a bad one either. Aside from Data, we haven't explored anyone's reactions to main characters dying really, and I bet what this does to the Voyager crew in Full Circle will be some pretty gripping reading.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Oh, how I long for the days when someone would come in and denounce the books, because the fiction would never have the sack to do something "radical" or "shattering" like kill off a major character.

Now, we've got people running in here begging for everybody to be resurrected.

Fans really need a union or a spokesperson or something to keep some sort of handle on the agenda.....

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I don't think Janeway will be resurrected, the demand just isn't there. Now Data on the other hand...

I have no problems with major characters being killed off in the books or in the movies/shows. The thing is, there has to be a good story behind it. Janeway, Data and I would personally say Kirk had such lame and badly done deaths. I think that is why people are upset about them. I was never a huge Janeway fan, but she went out in a bad story and I do think that was disrespectful to her fans and to her character.

 

[Turbo]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! [/Vader]

Ok, back to being serious (or at least as serious I ever get). I am a huge Janeway fan. Beyond huge. She was by FAR my favorite character on Voyager. And I was outraged when I heard TrekLit had killed her off. But now, having finally read Before Dishonor, I'm far less angry about it. And I think it could be a good thing for the Voyager Relaunch novels. Kirsten Beyer obviously knows the Voyager crew (see: Voyager: String Theory) and has undoubtedly pulled together an excellent story for Full Circle. Besides, once you promote Janeway, the ultimate explorer, to Admiral, what's left to do with her? Demoting her would make very little sense. But elevating her to a new level of existence, one that she's made contact with before, is far better than leaving her as an admiral.

I would be quite happy if she joined Ariel on the plane of existence between our universe and the Q Continuum - one that we can't possibly understand, but one that leaves Kate Janeway the opportunity for infinite exploration. A state in which we can't comprehend her existence, but one in which she can grow beyond what we know and could ever understand. An existence which, as Lady Q said, has bottomless cups of coffee.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

^ Well since you're a big Janeway fan I'm glad it worked for you. It sure didn't for me though, and it seems to have riled up a lot of the other big Janeway fans around here. Even though I'm not a huge fan, I've watched every episode of Voyager many times and read so many books involving her..I feel SOMETHING for her. I didn't enjoy seeing her go out like that.

 

[KRAD]

Did Spock's return make his death any less poignant?

Yes, actually, and I say that as someone who's written post-Genesis Spock (though there was a reason why I made his resurrection a plot point in The Brave and the Bold). What he did in Wrath of Khan was a noble sacrifice. What happened in The Search for Spock completely undermined it. For all the interesting fiction that has been done with Spock in a post-TWOK timeframe, I think it was a bad story choice to resurrect him.

And what exactly are the consequences of her death that you speak of? Nothing!

Wrong. Wait'll you read Full Circle.

And to PAD and KRAD and David Mack and all the others at the Meet the Pro's event at Shore Leave, thank you for taking the time to answer yet another fans questions with patience and grace.

You're very welcome. S'what we're there for. Well, that, and to scribble on books and take your money............

Oh, how I long for the days when someone would come in and denounce the books, because the fiction would never have the sack to do something "radical" or "shattering" like kill off a major character.

Now, we've got people running in here begging for everybody to be resurrected.

Fans really need a union or a spokesperson or something to keep some sort of handle on the agenda.....

QFT. The fans really need to get their shit together so we'll know what they want once and for all, dadgummit!!!!

 

[Turbo]

Did Spock's return make his death any less poignant?

Yes, actually, and I say that as someone who's written post-Genesis Spock (though there was a reason why I made his resurrection a plot point in The Brave and the Bold). What he did in Wrath of Khan was a noble sacrifice. What happened in The Search for Spock completely undermined it. For all the interesting fiction that has been done with Spock in a post-TWOK timeframe, I think it was a bad story choice to resurrect him.

On the other hand, considering how TWOK was written, they had two choices: completely ignore it (as the DC comics did until TSFS) or bring him back. As much as I like heroic sacrifices, I think bringing Spock back was the right choice. He is an alien, after all. And nothing like it has been done since then.

And what exactly are the consequences of her death that you speak of? Nothing!

Wrong. Wait'll you read Full Circle.

Can't......wait.......

Oh, how I long for the days when someone would come in and denounce the books, because the fiction would never have the sack to do something "radical" or "shattering" like kill off a major character.

Now, we've got people running in here begging for everybody to be resurrected.

Fans really need a union or a spokesperson or something to keep some sort of handle on the agenda.....

QFT. The fans really need to get their shit together so we'll know what they want once and for all, dadgummit!!!!

I know. If only there were some forum where we could express our opinions...

 

[LightningStorm]

Oh, how I long for the days when someone would come in and denounce the books, because the fiction would never have the sack to do something "radical" or "shattering" like kill off a major character.

Now, we've got people running in here begging for everybody to be resurrected.

Fans really need a union or a spokesperson or something to keep some sort of handle on the agenda.....

QFT. The fans really need to get their shit together so we'll know what they want once and for all, dadgummit!!!!

Last I heard, we wanted the books to be cannon. With two n's... so that they hurt. I think DRGIII is the only one who's come close to making that happen. But the economy has stymied his latest attempt at weapons manufacturing. I mean really, a half-million word HARD cover!

 

[William Leisner]

Oh, how I long for the days when someone would come in and denounce the books, because the fiction would never have the sack to do something "radical" or "shattering" like kill off a major character.

Now, we've got people running in here begging for everybody to be resurrected.

Fans really need a union or a spokesperson or something to keep some sort of handle on the agenda.....

QFT. The fans really need to get their shit together so we'll know what they want once and for all, dadgummit!!!!

We are the fans. Character death is irrelevant. Your archaic publishing houses are authority driven. To facilitate our introduction into your novel lines it has been decided a fan voice will speak for us in all communications. We have chosen to be that voice... (transmission breaks apart into what sounds like a billion drone voices squabbling amongst themselves)

 

[Daddy Todd]

(H)ow do you react to a sudden resurgence of someone presumed dead when you've already grieved and moved on with your life? How do people feel, confronted with this ghost from the past made flesh once more, perhaps expecting a place you can no longer provide, disruptive all the relationships forged in their absence?

...And how to those "returned from the dead" deal with those circumstances? That's EXACTLY what the Voyager post-series books should've been all about, IMHO. I haven't read any of them (I have all 4 on a shelf somewhere) but I take it that's NOT what they're about.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Do we have a full list of all the characters who have been 'killed', but then returned? I can't think of many.

-Spock
-Picard
-Sisko
-Ben Finney (faked death)
-Lyndsay Ballard (from Voyager)

Scotty "The Ultimate Computer"
Chekov "Spectre of the Gun"
McCoy "Shore Leave"

I'm sure there are others.

Harry Kim &
Naomi Wildman (okay, they were replaced by exact duplicates)

Neelix - horrified there was no afterlife

Kirk - Shatner resurrected him in novels - twice.

Then we'e had characters killed off in novels, only to be alive in later novels:
T'Pau
Garrovick
Andrew Powell(?)

 

[Daddy Todd]

(C)onsidering how TWOK was written, they had two choices: completely ignore it (as the DC comics did until TSFS)...

Wha wha what? I think I must've read a different set of DC Comics then you did; the first 8 issues were all about Kirk and the Enterprise crew going on without Spock, in the spirit of the last moments of TWoK, with Kirk feeling "young again," Saavik taking over Spock's science station, and Sulu promoted to First Officer.

As the plans for the next film became known, Mike Barr started writing scenes linking to the upcoming film; Kirk growing melancholy, McCoy losing his marbles, the Enterprise getting all beat up again to look like it did at the beginning of TSfS, etc.

I always felt like DC handled the transition between the two films quite well, intiailly portraying a crew dealing with (and getting beyond) their grief over Spock's death, then having to paint them back into the grief & denial they were found in at the beginning of The Search for Spock. It was a difficult "through line" to write, and I thought the writer & editor(s) did an excellent job.

 

[Turbo]

Ok, "completely ignore it" was a poor choice of words. But DC certainly took the opposite path from what TSFS would have us believe happened between the two movies. And yes, they did a good job connecting the stories, though not nearly as good as job as they'd be forced to do to connect TSFS and TVH.

 

[Trent Roman]

...And how to those "returned from the dead" deal with those circumstances? That's EXACTLY what the Voyager post-series books should've been all about, IMHO. I haven't read any of them (I have all 4 on a shelf somewhere) but I take it that's NOT what they're about.

Tragically, no (when I said "series", I should have specified I meant both the TV show and the subsequent novels). The crew reintegrates almost seamlessly into Alpha Quadrant life (Janeway even becomes BFF with her ex-fiancé's wife); surprisingly for Golden, who reaches sometimes bulimic levels of emotional gushing, there's little angst on this front. What conflicts do arise are rather shallow, petty affairs; for instance, some of the new personel on Voyager are resentful of the old crew for missing the Dominion War while they were off having fun stranded alone tens of thousands of light years away from home. ...Yeah, gripping stuff.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[TGTheodore]

Oh, how I long for the days when someone would come in and denounce the books, because the fiction would never have the sack to do something "radical" or "shattering" like kill off a major character.

Now, we've got people running in here begging for everybody to be resurrected.

Fans really need a union or a spokesperson or something to keep some sort of handle on the agenda.....

There's your next book, Dayton: Dead and Alive. A number of major Trek characters keep getting killed and resurrected multiple times each throughout an entire novel.

Geordi was dead. Again. First the harpoon on the naval Enterprise, then the pistol at the hands of Moriarty. At least he never suffered Bashir's eighth death -- inhaling next to an Armenian*.

--Ted

* Woody Allen reference. Name the film. And send your letters to him.