My non-Trek starship....

[Warped9]

A bit more background to my little project here.

I'm somewhat following someone else's example. Back in the late '80s David Gerrold (of The Trouble With Tribbles fame) was involved in the early development of TNG. At some point he and GR and company parted ways. Gerrold had creative differences with what they wanted to do on TNG. And so Gerrold resorted to working his ideas into a project of his own in novel form called The Voyage Of The Star Wolf. I think it's a good book and I can clearly see where Gerrold took ideas from TNG and worked them into his own interpretation. Truth is in some ways I would love to have seen some of Gerrold's ideas incorporated into TNG--I think it would have really helped the show.

Be that as it may the point was that I saw a clear and well executed example of how to reinvent an idea. Many on this board well know my general disppointment with Trek after TOS. I find a lot of hit-and-miss with a lot more misses than hits. But after years of just griping about what wasn't being done I elected to try and follow Gerrold's example to some extent.

It boiled down to a question: how to do TOS without doing TOS? Just as Gerrold did his take on TNG in his Voyage Of The Star Wolf.

Okay Gerrold wasn't literally reinterpreting TNG and it isn't my intention to literally reinterpret TOS. But there are parallels:

- how to depict far future science and technology convincingly and in a credible manner and while breaking away from general practice to be more distinctive.
- how to depict alien life convincingly that goes beyond a different crease or bump on the forehead of a bipedal humanoid form.
- how to revive that feeling of "the final frontier" and "strange new worlds."

Strangely enough it wasn't a SF film or TV show but rather a dramatic period adventure film that really nailed it for me: Master And Commander: The Far Side Of The World. The comparatively fragile ship of wood and canvas far removed from home in vast, strange and exotic oceans nicely recaptured that feeling we used to get from TOS particularly in its first season.

And so M&C inspired me and I turned to SF literature and real speculative science for the details to flesh it out, including background worldbuilding to rationalize the existence of my starship and its mission.

- something has happened to Earth some centuries past.
- humanity has found Earth like worlds few and far between. They've settled on a few worlds and are actively seeking out other worlds suitable for potential colonization. Whatever happened to Earth has put fear into humanity that encourages it to push outward.
- over seven hundred years of exploration they've found a diversity of life on other worlds but no alien intelligence...yet.
- no FTL and therefore no interstellar governments. When you're out there you're really on your own. On the flip side humans live much longer on average than today and they have fast relativistic transit--this really underscores the "frontier" feeling.

In a broad sense my C.R.V. Eagle is my reimagining of TOS' U.S.S. Enterprise. Only my 5-10 year voyage will be relative since the voyage will actually take about 150-200 years.

More details coming.

 

[sojourner]

So in parallel to the navy saying "6 months of extreme boredom with 6 minutes of extreme terror" you will have "60 years of extreme boredom with 6 days of extreme terror"? lol.

It sounds interesting actually.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Well, during those years of travel that will only seem like some weeks or a couple of months due to relativistic travel at .9999c the crew could be in naturally adapted hibernation much like bears and other animals are known to do. This isn't cryogenic or suspended animation, but induced hibernation that slows the life processes right down. This has already been successfully tested on mice, pigs and dogs with no adverse affects. The animals awoke as if from sleep and behaved totally normal.

The idea is to have a system that could slow life processes down for critically injured people until they can be gotten to proper medical facilities. The science fiction comes in by assuming this idea is successful and extrapolating it into a safely induced natural hibernation for deep space travel. Upon arrival at a given destination or just prior to final approach the crew could be awakened as if from a good night's sleep. In the interim autodocs and such could watch over them.

The advantage of this approach is that the crew could be awakened relatively quickly in the event of an emergency as opposed to enduring a protracted process to revive them from some more complicated form of suspension.

 

[Warped9]

This project was held up for a while by the interference of real life, but hopefully will get up and running very soon again. I'm also trying to get a handle on a more distinctive shuttlecraft design in order to get a better sense of scale for the ship.

Please bear with me.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I look forward to seeing more of the Eagle, can't wait to see what you got in mind for the shuttle.

 

[Warped9]

For the shuttlecraft I'm thinking of applying similar technology used on the Eagle's Flight Control (bridge), of walls that are actually viewscreens and create the impression of the ship's bridge set within an enormous canopy looking out into space. Of course any part of those "windows" can be used as a regular monitor. I got this idea from Bryan Hitch's illustrations of the Carrier in the comic series The Authority.

My shuttlecraft could borrow an idea seen with the TMP shuttlecraft in not having any obvious forward viewports as seen from the outside. But from within it would seem as if the entire forward compartment could be within a transparent hull somewhat similar to a helicopter. Of course the entire forward compartment could be "transparent" or just particular parts of it. I lean toward this idea because it looks so counter intuitive and very futuristic.

Although the craft will be propelled by an antigravity system I'm still partial to having the vehicle have at least some measure of aerodynamic credibility. If by some chance the drive fails then you still want some ability of gliding in for a landing even if it might be a bit rough.

The trick is to find something distinctive while also evoking a sense of credibility.

 

[Warped9]

Here's some recent coffee shop sketching on the direction I'm currently going on with my shuttlecraft concept. There's still a hint of the TOS Galileo design in the tail end because, well, I just like the way it looks. I also like the lack of obvious viewports as it looks counter-intuitive and futuristic.

I should also try to do some interior sketches.

My reasoning for having a larger shuttlecraft is primarily because my starship doesn't have a convenient teleportation capability to beam down additional personnel and/or equipment as required. Therefore you have to plan ahead as best you can and bring what you're likely to need with you.

I struggled with the landing gear arrangement. Initially I considered landing gear similar to an aircraft's that folded away in-flight. This could also facilitate moving the craft around aboard the hangar deck. Of course since this is the far future with antigrav technology mastered then I considered the tried and true retractable landing pads similar to the TOS shuttlecraft. But finally I'm thinking of a material on the underside that holds its shape in-filght while being able to go flat (on a hard deck) or even conform to an uneven planetary surface when landed. This mightn't be so farfetched since currently there's already experimentation with materials that could give an aircraft wings that could change shape for different flying conditions. Also spreading the vehicle's weight over a larger surface could mean better stability landing on a potentially unstable surface.

My initial thought was to have some sort of drive element affixed to the hull (top, bottom or sides) as well as wings or winglets extended out from the sides. Then I got the idea of combining the wings and drive unit into one element and affixing it to the bottom of the craft. It looks a bit odd at first, but the craft still retains something of a lifting body look to it which is somewhat what I was aiming for in trying for something aerodynamic yet not conventionally so.

And the craft's name, Berkey, comes from artist and SF illustrator John C. Berkey. The sister craft are Di Fate and Hoshino.

 

[RedSpar]

Great looking sketches Warped9!

I love your idea of a "memory" metal that changes shape for different flight or landing requirements as this really is the future of where our technology is going.

I'd also say with breakthroughs we are having with meta-materials (*see current news on invisibility) that nearly any part of a ships hull could be turned transparent and back again while keeping its inherent strength. So I would say your darkened faux windows could/should actually become windows when needed.

My only crit is it is still a little too close to Trekian design aesthetics. Maybe try going outside the box a bit more.

Good work

 

[Warped9]

Great looking sketches Warped9!
My only crit is it is still a little too close to Trekian design aesthetics. Maybe try going outside the box a bit more.

Good work

The thing is that when you want at least a smidgen of credibility in re-entry vehicles you're going to end up with something of a wedge shaped lifting body design. Just look over the various experimental lifting body ships over the past four decades or so as well as the more recent X-33 design.

Sure if you have antigrav drive then your ship can look like almost anything, but if your drive falters then you want something at least passably aerodynamic to glide with rather than fall like a stone.

This isn't even fictional: For example I offer the recent tragedy in California where a Navy jet crashed into a residential area after both it's engines failed. This is an aircraft designed for flying in atmosphere and yet it couldn't glide worth a damn when its propulsion systems failed and fell like a stone.

Believe me I've tried for some pretty whacked out ideas but none of them have seemed convincing. This is what happens when you try to find a balance between speculative fiction and not violating the laws of physics too badly.

 

[RedSpar]

That is why our UFO friends from Zeti-Reticulii probably have it right - the most efficient shape for a shuttle type spacecraft is a saucer/disc shape or triangular shape.

Too bad in general those shapes are rather boring to look at.

 

[Warped9]

That is why our UFO friends from Zeti-Reticulii probably have it right - the most efficient shape for a shuttle type spacecraft is a saucer/disc shape or triangular shape.

Too bad in general those shapes are rather boring to look at.

Yeah. But the saucer thing has been done to death.

That said, though, I'll dig out one of my earliest ideas where the design was more ovoid in shape. I quite liked it at the time.

 

[Warped9]

Very very streamlined design. It looks like it's going .9999c already, even though it's standing still

It's sorta got a unique presence y'know. Like, you could clearly pick it out of a lineup of starship designs.

Thanks. This design has recently been evolved and when I have some more finalized drawings then I'll post them.

There's been some detail improvements and the lower section suspended under the main hull has been completely redesigned for a more distinctive and better balanced appearance.

One thing I'm really trying to do is balance the overall symetrical design with asymetrical detailing, rather like what you get with many motocycles and in the extreme an aircraft carrier. I feel it makes it all more visually interesting from all sides.

I've also been doing more reading, both fiction and nonfiction, that's helped me clarify the nature of the ship's A.I. or Artisen as I call it. Her name is Ann (autronic neural network) and she even experiences senstations and emotions to some extent that she considers somewhat analogous to what humans experience. After all she is actually patterned after a real human conciousness. Ann experiences solar wind as something like a soft warm breeze on her skin (or hull). Cosmic rays at cruising speed is like the cool wind rushing past you when riding a bike really fast. She experiences hard acceleration akin to something like an adrenalin surge. For her piloting the ship is rather like being able to fly like a bird, or more specifically a peregrin falcon or an eagle.

My research has also helped me clarify what the inteiors and control systems could eventually be like. I've been getting some ideas after reading Wil McCarthy's novel Collapsium and Robert Reed's novels Marrow and The Well Of Stars. I've also got Wil McCarthy's nonfiction book Hacking Matter on order which deals with the concept of programmable matter.

I've also been devoting time to properly plotting out my initial story and how to do certain scenes as well as convey the ideas I want to explore.

Christ, I wish I was making this for a movie or TV series.

 

[Kaiser]

Very intersesting design

 

[Warped9]

What this doesn't show is that the entire keel or wing like structure underneath is actually the main stardrive component, but it's all more streamlined to help pierce the interstellar medium at .9999c more effectively than the bulkier design I had previously.

Another idea I'm interested in was inspired partly by reading Wil McCarthy's nonfiction work Hacking Matter published six years ago. If imaging systems continue to improve as they are (and it's a reasonable assumption) than the interior of a starship could be quite different than what we've traditionally gotten in SF. The general convention has been to portray starships, even FTL ones, as futuristic counterparts of contemporary naval ships or submarines. But if the science and technology advances sufficiently then this could really change assuming it all becomes commonplace and easily cost effective.

Imagine instead of traditional overhead ceilings you can project a convincing image/illusion of open sky in corridors and crew common areas. An effect that could be tied into the day/night clock system. Add in ventilation creating gentle breezes and subliminal sounds and you can create the illusion of being outdoors and planetside throughout almost the entire ship except in control areas or when you enter certain rooms where you then feel like you're indoors. Of course you know you're within an enclosed spacecraft, but your senses are experiencing something else.

 

[Warped9]

I'm really going to try and get more work done on this this weekend.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

Man i wish i had that sort of talent.

 

[MadMan1701A]

What this doesn't show is that the entire keel or wing like structure underneath is actually the main stardrive component, but it's all more streamlined to help pierce the interstellar medium at .9999c more effectively than the bulkier design I had previously.

Another idea I'm interested in was inspired partly by reading Wil McCarthy's nonfiction work Hacking Matter published six years ago. If imaging systems continue to improve as they are (and it's a reasonable assumption) than the interior of a starship could be quite different than what we've traditionally gotten in SF. The general convention has been to portray starships, even FTL ones, as futuristic counterparts of contemporary naval ships or submarines. But if the science and technology advances sufficiently then this could really change assuming it all becomes commonplace and easily cost effective.

Imagine instead of traditional overhead ceilings you can project a convincing image/illusion of open sky in corridors and crew common areas. An effect that could be tied into the day/night clock system. Add in ventilation creating gentle breezes and subliminal sounds and you can create the illusion of being outdoors and planetside throughout almost the entire ship except in control areas or when you enter certain rooms where you then feel like you're indoors. Of course you know you're within an enclosed spacecraft, but your senses are experiencing something else.

Wow, that's a great idea! I can't believe no one has thought to do anything like that in a show or a movie, yet. It would be possible now, even, with LCD screens and stuff like that, even thought it would be extremely expensive, and power hungry.

About the design... I think I like the top version better. Maybe the "nose" can be a little sharper, like the bottom version, but I kind of like the "chunkiness".

 

[Warped9]

I've made some progress and the actual design is a tad less sharp in the nose than the concept I showed above.

Part of what slows me up is my obsession with detail in trying to get individual components not only exactly as I like them but also well integrated into the overall design. Often I have to go through ideas that come immediately to mind only to discard them as I work towards something I feel is better and more suitable and more distinct.

 

[MadMan1701A]

I understand. Sometimes I will work on something for hours, only to get another idea, and abandon the old entirely, only to go back to it again later.