Bring them Home...

[2 of 10]

It just makes sense to dispatch crewmembers killed in deep space to space. The same way the Navy will bury saliors at sea. I do have a problem however with the way that the disposed of Spock and Kirk. They disposed of Spocks body on the Genesis Planet. Did Carol Marcus agree to this. Then they dispose of Kirks body on Veridian III, if it was just a happless redshirt I could see. But this was James.T. Kirk to leave his body on some remote planet seems to be a breech of protocal. We have G.I. still buried in Europe from both WW1 and WW2, but we brought higher ups
Generals...ect home to Arlington Cemetary, why not Kirk and Spock???

 

[Timo]

I actually take objection to the idea that either of these would ever have happened.

Kirk died at the bottom of a tall cliff - twice as tall as the one they used for filming, thanks to clever editing. There is no way the frail Picard could have hauled that carcass up to the top of that rock formation, along those sheer walls that had but near-vertical metal ladders for access. Not even a young fireman in his prime, rested and properly hydrated, could have done it. Picard didn't as much as have a canteen to bring him up to speed.

Moreover, the pile of rocks Picard created was too small to hide the corpse. Unless, of course, Picard hacked it into tiny pieces and carried those up one by one. And then washed his uniform with the water that wasn't there.

Hell, getting Kirk separated from his bridge would have required inhuman physical effort (and that missing water) already. No, more probably the corpse was still down there when the shuttle arrived, and all that Picard took to the top of the cliff was Kirk's badge. Going to the top would be a logical maneuver (getting the lay of the land, trying to attract the attention of rescuers Picard knew would eventually be there) - and taking Kirk's badge might not have been a mere empty gesture, either, considering that such badges were communicators in "Yesterday's Enterprise"! After Picard found out that Kirk's badge was but a trinket, the older captain would have had nothing better to do than erect a little discreet memorial...

As for Spock, the torpedo wasn't supposed to soft-land - this was a surprise to the Grissom team, attributed to the local gravity being in a state of flux. We could just as well assume it wasn't supposed to land at all, but merely curve around the planet in the most spectacular manner possible.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[trekkerguy]

Kirk was already supposedly dead. The not frail Picard may have never brought
the situation up to anyone and felt it best to leave the memory of Kirk
as it was.

The situation with Spock is fairly simple, it wasn't supposed to happen that
way. Also what would be the point in bringing them home? To take up more
space in the ground? Doesn't seem very logical.

It seems it would fit that those who travel among the stars be left to them.
Regardless, they both happened no matter what objections there may be.

 

[WillsBabe]

I must admit to not having considered the fact that they left Spock's body out there on the Genesis Planet at the end of Khan. On the other hand I really hated the fact that they did not bring Kirk's body home. And I agree that the pile of stones doesn't look the right size. I'm glad someone else noticed!

 

[Timo]

What would be the point of bringing Kirk's body to Earth? He was a creature of space, apparently not considering any particular planet his "home". Supposedly his direct family (parents, siblings) was dead, and it doesn't seem Starfleet would hesitate to dump starsailor corpses overboard even if they did have families and roots and whatnot. That's likely to be the custom - you sign up for a space burial when you join the force. Heck, you will probably get a space burial even if you die down on your home planet's dirty surface.

We have G.I. still buried in Europe from both WW1 and WW2, but we brought higher ups Generals...ect home to Arlington Cemetary, why not Kirk and Spock???

Kirk wasn't a higher-up, tho - just a plain O-6, a disgraced and demoted former flag officer. Spock at the time of his first death held the same rank, basically equivalent to Colonel.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

What would be the point of bringing Kirk's body to Earth? He was a creature of space, apparently not considering any particular planet his "home". Supposedly his direct family (parents, siblings) was dead, and it doesn't seem Starfleet would hesitate to dump starsailor corpses overboard even if they did have families and roots and whatnot. That's likely to be the custom - you sign up for a space burial when you join the force. Heck, you will probably get a space burial even if you die down on your home planet's dirty surface.

What makes you think they wouldn't honor what somebody put in their will about how they wanted their body dealt with?

What you say, however, might make good sense as a default for those who do not specify.

 

[McCoy]

Rank notwithstanding, Kirk was a Federation legend. Picard probably used the weapon to carve out the ground and laid Kirk's body inside to preserve it as best as possible for a short time. Then I would expect arrangements were made for Starfleet to retrieve the body later and bring it home. They could inter him with one of the monuments on Earth that are sure to exist, thereby keeping his remains safe from people who would come to this little rock planet and disturb his grave for any number of reasons.

 

[Delta1]

Spock's is a curious case. It seems his will specified space burial. But Sarek expected his body *and* katra to come back to Mt. Seleya, fal-tor-pan or no fal-tor-pan. Did Spock plan to eschew Vulcan funeral customs, or did he simply plan never to die?

As for Kirk, I agree that his corpse was left in place and Picard simply constructed a cenotaph. Placing the comm badge on the pile of rocks may have even been an afterthought--I suspect the "cairn" was actually a hastily constructed ground to air signal, such as are used by downed airmen. When Picard saw the approaching shuttle, he realized no GTAS was necessary, and dedicated it to Kirk.

 

[Timo]

I'd think Picard would have been his own GTAS: he had every reason to think that a starship's sensors were scanning for him from orbit (he didn't know about the crash), and now Soran's jammers were supposedly gone.

And I'm not sure Picard was in any shape to construct anything bigger than that cairn. Climbing to the hilltop would be enough to rid him of the earliest sign of decomposing-related odors, and he would be expecting help any minute. Why undertake any grandiose project on his own?

Also, Picard wouldn't have have much in the way of resources. Much of Soran's stuff (including his body and weapon) got blown up along with the rocket, apparently. Picard himself was carrying nothing besides his uniform, the Duras sisters had made sure of that. And Kirk's corpse didn't seem any better equipped.

On the issue of Spock's Starfleet will, I just bet it was optimized to irk Sarek to the max...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[2 of 10]

^^
Very well thought out points, thanks for the input...

 

[Delta1]

I'd think Picard would have been his own GTAS: he had every reason to think that a starship's sensors were scanning for him from orbit (he didn't know about the crash), and now Soran's jammers were supposedly gone.

I'm not sure he didn't know about the crash. And even if he didn't, standard procedure for isolated personnel is to establish some signal for friendlies and then get to a hide site. He had no idea how many mercenary Klingons, vengeful Romulans, or demented El-Aurians were in on Soran's schemes, nor did he know how quickly (if at all) the Enterprise would be able to recover him. Logically, he would have left a message that only Starfleet could interpret, in such a manner that it would be recognizable but not obvious, then sought shelter and water in a position from which he could defend himself against mercenaries, avengers, and dementos.

A GTAS on a mountain top is a logical choice for such a message, because it's visible from overhead, invisible from the ground (wouldn't want any of Soran's surviving henchmen to see it), materially indistinguishable from the surrounding environment, and produces no compromising emanations. Furthermore, it's orientation or shape may have had some meaning known only to Starfleet; "I am 300 meters west of here," for instance, or, "Next time I'm swallowing that dang viridium patch."

 

[Timo]

I'm not sure he didn't know about the crash.

How could he have gained such knowledge? He had no comm gear, and if there had been an opportunity for him to view the fiery spectacle of the space battle or the saucer's planetfall, he had already missed that (twice!) while fighting Soran. And the battle and atmospheric entry seemed to take place on the shadow side of the planet anyway.

And even if he didn't, standard procedure for isolated personnel is to establish some signal for friendlies and then get to a hide site.

But that's not what Picard did. He did the cairn, then stayed right there to admire the results and the beautiful sunset. Apparently, he judged the threat level there to be zero. And probably rightfully so: Soran was a lone wolf by MO and would have had little interest in mischief other than the launching of his precious rocket. And if, say, the Klingons tried to recapture their valuable hostage, Picard hiding in the bushes certainly wouldn't stop them.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[dreadpiraterose]

Kirk was already supposedly dead. The not frail Picard may have never brought
the situation up to anyone and felt it best to leave the memory of Kirk
as it was.

The situation with Spock is fairly simple, it wasn't supposed to happen that
way. Also what would be the point in bringing them home? To take up more
space in the ground? Doesn't seem very logical.

It seems it would fit that those who travel among the stars be left to them.
Regardless, they both happened no matter what objections there may be.

I'm inclined to agree with the reason stated here. Kirk was never supposed to be there, therefore it was best to leave things as they were in the history books.

 

[Strider]

By the 24th century, inhumation was no longer customary among humans. Rather, Picard honored Kirk in the accepted manner by roasting the corpse and feeding on it for several days. He later buried the head beneath a cairn.

 

[Elder Knight]

"Kirk's remains sustained me through the Viridian winter. He was a great captain, and delicious to the end."

 

[Marie1]

In general, I'm not sure that having bodies in space is a good idea. I can see honouring the dead's wishes of course... but can you imagine if one of those hit a ship's window at warp? Saw the deflector wasn't quite working or something... umm... that would be bad.

And then, all those bodies after a war... eek!