Trek canon is dead. Thanx JJ!

[Kaziarl]

Ive never understood the mind set of 'if you didnt watch since the 60's your opinion doesnt quite count as much' as whats the real difference with watching from the start 40 years ago or watching reruns/TNG when it was first out in the 80s as a small child?

There isn't one. Though those that feel that way would make the argument that they've had more invested in it over a longer period of time.

That really doesn't matter because as I said, the feelings I have toward the show are just as strong as someone who started in the 60's.

They simply developed in a different era. But my personal exposure has been to all of Trek. So I care just as much about TOS as I do TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. That's why I feel this movie to be such a good thing. The more I watch TOS again the more I can't wait to see those characters reinvented and relived on the big screen.

We have invested more over a longer period of time.

That's part of my point that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

And that's what makes our perspectives different.

But again, it doesn't make your feelings not count or less involved.

And you stated yourself the reason, "...They simply developed in a different era..."

And at this point your starting to come across slightly as if your perspective is better.

If you love TOS so much (and I'm not implying that you don't) how is it that you can be so cavalier about it being reinvented??

Do you really have invested feelings toward it?

Granted it's just a TV show, but to some of US it means a bit more than that.
For some of Us who've been with it from the beginning (and many throughout the years) it's become inspirational in OUR lives, and that may be something you may not understand.

And that doesn't mean that WE can't live without it, it just means that it's become a bit more important to US than it seems, to you.

Perhaps that's something you should take into consideration before you continue to berate and insult folks who object to the changes in Trek XI around here.

Just because we accept change does not mean it matters less. It's the values that trek taught me that stuck with me over the years. The exterior paint job isn't as important as the message. I'm not sure how saying that makes you feel berated, and if that is the case then I do apologize. However, if you do take my opinion personally, there is not much I can do about it.

Now since you mention berating people, in my opinion berating the new movie because of how it looks, and what you think you've seen in the trailers, without giving it a chance, is against what trek is all about.

 

[DaveyNY]

There isn't one. Though those that feel that way would make the argument that they've had more invested in it over a longer period of time.

That really doesn't matter because as I said, the feelings I have toward the show are just as strong as someone who started in the 60's.

They simply developed in a different era. But my personal exposure has been to all of Trek. So I care just as much about TOS as I do TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. That's why I feel this movie to be such a good thing. The more I watch TOS again the more I can't wait to see those characters reinvented and relived on the big screen.

We have invested more over a longer period of time.

That's part of my point that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

And that's what makes our perspectives different.

But again, it doesn't make your feelings not count or less involved.

And you stated yourself the reason, "...They simply developed in a different era..."

And at this point your starting to come across slightly as if your perspective is better.

If you love TOS so much (and I'm not implying that you don't) how is it that you can be so cavalier about it being reinvented??

Do you really have invested feelings toward it?

Granted it's just a TV show, but to some of US it means a bit more than that.
For some of Us who've been with it from the beginning (and many throughout the years) it's become inspirational in OUR lives, and that may be something you may not understand.

And that doesn't mean that WE can't live without it, it just means that it's become a bit more important to US than it seems, to you.

Perhaps that's something you should take into consideration before you continue to berate and insult folks who object to the changes in Trek XI around here.

Just because we accept change does not mean it matters less. It's the values that trek taught me that stuck with me over the years. The exterior paint job isn't as important as the message. I'm not sure how saying that makes you feel berated, and if that is the case then I do apologize. However, if you do take my opinion personally, there is not much I can do about it.

Now since you mention berating people, in my opinion berating the new movie because of how it looks, and what you think you've seen in the trailers, without giving it a chance, is against what trek is all about.

My apologies to you, Jolly Old Saint Q....

That last sentence was directed more at trekerguy and his ilk, who have a history of such offense's toward the Folks around here that have objected strongly toward Trek XI's changes. (both sides have taken way too many pot shots at each other and I do try to stay out of the frey.)

What your stating about waiting to see the movie, is pretty much what I've been saying for myself in most of my posts.

I think if you take a minute or two to check out some of my previous posts, you'll find that I'm NOT one of the severe canon-ists that abound here on the TBBS. (though at times I do wander in that direction )

I do take offense though, to those who aren't willing to at the very least, try to understand others point of view and thereby fire off one-liners aiming to be insulting.

 

[trekkerguy]

I would kindly thank you not to refer to me in such manner
without backing up your statement with proof that have
infact berated or insulted anyone directly.

Much like the poster who accused me of hating other
Trek fans or having violent intent toward them...
until you can back your statements on this matter they have no validity.

 

[Ezri II]

Lok guys, the Star Trek Universe is going to change. Everyone understood when they recasted Kirk and company we were not going back to the 1960's. TOS was about the conflicts of the 1960's and we are so far far away from that era nobody under 30 is going to care to revisit that era.

There is going to be changes, and we want the franchise to increase. If we had the movie to make it like it was in the 1960's we will only have an older generation seeing the movie. What Star Trek needs is a younger group of fans.

If we had it to be for the era of the 1960's and wanted to make it for the fans of the 1960's and 1970's and some into the 1980's. Well, shoot they are at an age they do not join RPG's or go to conventions. If the STar Trek XI is more for the 18 - 26 year old, fine fine go for it.

 

[DaveyNY]

I would kindly thank you not to refer to me in such manner
without backing up your statement with proof that have
infact berated or insulted anyone directly.

Much like the poster who accused me of hating other
Trek fans or having violent intent toward them...
until you can back your statements on this matter they have no validity.

I need only to post one to prove my point...
And it was during this very conversation this evening.....

"...It's... entertainment. It changes, time changes and so do we(Some of us). If it means the survival of Trek and bringing back the fun adventurous aspects of it that have been lost in so much technobabble and canon in the last decade, I welcome it..."

I haven't said that you are a HATER, I simply pointed out that you can't resist putting barbs/jabs/berating remarks in your posts toward Folks around here who are a bit more passionate about Star Trek than you are.

That's my only beef with you, it's not personal it's just something that you do that seems insulting to others, including me.
I have no problem with your differing views, in fact I enjoy discussing them with you, but you do need to consider just how you come across on occasion.

==============================================================================

Lok guys, the Star Trek Universe is going to change. Everyone understood when they recasted Kirk and company we were not going back to the 1960's. TOS was about the conflicts of the 1960's and we are so far far away from that era nobody under 30 is going to care to revisit that era.

There is going to be changes, and we want the franchise to increase. If we had the movie to make it like it was in the 1960's we will only have an older generation seeing the movie. What Star Trek needs is a younger group of fans.

If we had it to be for the era of the 1960's and wanted to make it for the fans of the 1960's and 1970's and some into the 1980's. Well, shoot they are at an age they do not join RPG's or go to conventions. If the Star Trek XI is more for the 18 - 26 year old, fine fine go for it.

Ezri, I agree with you completely, I just don't think that it's necessary to drive away those 'older' fans while trying to bring in the younger ones.
I am hoping that when We do finally see the movie that this will not be the case.

 

[Kaziarl]

Lok guys, the Star Trek Universe is going to change. Everyone understood when they recasted Kirk and company we were not going back to the 1960's. TOS was about the conflicts of the 1960's and we are so far far away from that era nobody under 30 is going to care to revisit that era.

There is going to be changes, and we want the franchise to increase. If we had the movie to make it like it was in the 1960's we will only have an older generation seeing the movie. What Star Trek needs is a younger group of fans.

If we had it to be for the era of the 1960's and wanted to make it for the fans of the 1960's and 1970's and some into the 1980's. Well, shoot they are at an age they do not join RPG's or go to conventions. If the STar Trek XI is more for the 18 - 26 year old, fine fine go for it.

I agree completely. All I hope for is, as I said earlier, that the core values of trek remain intact.

 

[trekkerguy]

I would kindly thank you not to refer to me in such manner
without backing up your statement with proof that have
infact berated or insulted anyone directly.

Much like the poster who accused me of hating other
Trek fans or having violent intent toward them...
until you can back your statements on this matter they have no validity.

I need only to post one to prove my point...
And it was during this very conversation this evening.....

"...It's... entertainment. It changes, time changes and so do we(Some of us). If it means the survival of Trek and bringing back the fun adventurous aspects of it that have been lost in so much technobabble and canon in the last decade, I welcome it..."

I have't said that you are a HATER, I simply pointed out that you can't resist putting barbs/jabs/berating remarks in your posts toward Folks around here who are a bit more passionate about Star Trek than you are.

That's my only beef with you, it's not personal it's just something that you do that seems insulting to others, including me.
I have no problem with your differing views, in fact I enjoy discussing them with you, but you do need to consider just how you come across on occaision.

Are you serious? You took that and turned it into berating and insulting people? That had nothing to do with any posters on this board and in no way was a jab at anyone. It was a general statement about life. Some people change, others don't.

I have nothing to consider. Good job assuming you are more passionate about Trek because you happen to be pickier about it. That in no way make you more passionate about it or myself any less. You aren't coming across all that great yourself.

I do make statements directed toward a certain kind of anal sentiment toward Trek and canon, but never toward specific members.

You are twisting things to benefit a case with no basis. Our conversation is over.


Jolan Tru.

 

[Ezri II]

I think the core will stay the same. What I do see would be more designed for gamers of Star Trek and more for the male members of Star Trek. Anyway, in my feelings there are more males then females that are Star Trek Fans.

Star Trek XI trailer

I think it is for the male market. Young males around 18 - 26 debating what they want to be as adults. And males, they are on the edge or want the fantasy to be on the edge.

 

[trekkerguy]

I think the core will stay the same. What I do see would be more designed for gamers of Star Trek and more for the male members of Star Trek. Anyway, in my feelings there are more males then females that are Star Trek Fans.

Star Trek XI trailer

I think it is for the male market. Young males around 18 - 26 debating what they want to be as adults. And males, they are on the edge or want the fantasy to be on the edge.

I don't think I can agree. I don't think the "Gamer" market has anything to do with it.
And I know several females who can't wait to see it because Kirk is "Hunky" and Quinto is "Ohh so cute!"

And then there's people like my mother who just likes Star Trek.

The aim is simply for a more casual audience.

 

[Ezri II]

Oh there are women that love Star Trek. Raise my hand with my bra in my hand as a female vote. Still, in a room full of trekkers I still give the advantage to the males. Anyway, with TOS and with the trailer I only did see 3 women. One that looked scared, the other in bed with Kirk and the other that takes her top off and you see her in her bra. Ah yes, the way women want to see themselves (NOT).

 

[DaveyNY]

I would kindly thank you not to refer to me in such manner
without backing up your statement with proof that have
infact berated or insulted anyone directly.

Much like the poster who accused me of hating other
Trek fans or having violent intent toward them...
until you can back your statements on this matter they have no validity.

I need only to post one to prove my point...
And it was during this very conversation this evening.....

"...It's... entertainment. It changes, time changes and so do we(Some of us). If it means the survival of Trek and bringing back the fun adventurous aspects of it that have been lost in so much technobabble and canon in the last decade, I welcome it..."

I have't said that you are a HATER, I simply pointed out that you can't resist putting barbs/jabs/berating remarks in your posts toward Folks around here who are a bit more passionate about Star Trek than you are.

That's my only beef with you, it's not personal it's just something that you do that seems insulting to others, including me.
I have no problem with your differing views, in fact I enjoy discussing them with you, but you do need to consider just how you come across on occasion.

Are you serious? You took that and turned it into berating and insulting people? That had nothing to do with any posters on this board and in no way was a jab at anyone. It was a general statement about life. Some people change, others don't.

I have nothing to consider. Good job assuming you are more passionate about Trek because you happen to be pickier about it. That in no way make you more passionate about it or myself any less. You aren't coming across all that great yourself.

I do make statements directed toward a certain kind of anal sentiment toward Trek and canon, but never toward specific members.

You are twisting things to benefit a case with no basis. Our conversation is over.


Jolan Tru.

I never said that your Feelings or Passion were any less important than anybody else's.
I was saying that your Perspective is Different toward Trek and therefore perhaps you are failing to understand why some of Us may be more Passionate.

And I was also trying to convey that you appear to not understand that your side comments can be interpreted as insulting to others here.
But since it seems that you also can't take a constructive critique toward how you come across at times, I guess our conversation is over.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Well, I would go see it anyway..... but Quinto is ohh so cute! *grins*

 

[trekkerguy]

Oh there are women that love Star Trek. Raise my hand with my bra in my hand as a female vote. Still, in a room full of trekkers I still give the advantage to the males. Anyway, with TOS and with the trailer I only did see 3 women. One that looked scared, the other in bed with Kirk and the other that takes her top off and you see her in her bra. Ah yes, the way women want to see themselves (NOT).

Those women have a choice to play those roles or not and how they portray themselves. And that is their right as much as it is for a woman to wear a paper bag if they so choose.

In the trailer there is; Spocks mother, a very strong femaler character in Trek lore. Uhura, also considered a prominant female character they simply decided to add some skin so she's not just "the one with the earpiece".(And to be honest she looks better with the shirt on...) Kirks mother who is it seems giving birth, not scared. The Orion girl with Kirk in bed, Orion have always been in Trek and always been seductresses. And that scene is as much for the ladies as it is the guys, and so are any flattering shots of the "hunky" male characters.

It's all balanced.

 

[trekkerguy]

But since it seems that you also can't take a constructive critique toward how you come across at times, I guess our conversation is over.

Again, you assume that you are more passionate about Trek.
That's my problem, not that it could be different perspectives but that your "seniority" with Trek gives you the belief you must be more passionate about it when really there is no way for you to tell or for it to even be measured.

And if generalized comments(especialy like the one you pointed out in your post which made no sense at all in your example) are coming across wrong, I am sorry that's how you or "Yours" are taking them. But I will not stop commenting on a type of attitude that seems utterly irrational, especialy since none of those comments have been personal attacks on anyone.

And goddamnit I got dragged back into this. This conversation should have been over many post ago but I keep coming back to it. There, I listened to your critique and made my response.

Jolan Tru.

 

[DaveyNY]

But since it seems that you also can't take a constructive critique toward how you come across at times, I guess our conversation is over.

Again, you assume that you are more passionate about Trek.
That's my problem, not that it could be different perspectives but that your "seniority" with Trek gives you the belief you must be more passionate about it when really there is no way for you to tell or for it to even be measured.

And if generalized comments(especialy like the one you pointed out in your post which made no sense at all in your example) are coming across wrong, I am sorry that's how you or "Yours" are taking them. But I will not stop commenting on a type of attitude that seems utterly irrational, especialy since none of those comments have been personal attacks on anyone.

And goddamnit I got dragged back into this. This conversation should have been over many post ago but I keep coming back to it. There, I listened to your critique and made my response.

Jolan Tru.

It seems that the conversation Isn't over...

I wonder then, using your logic, how is it that you can assume that the passion of other's around here with longevity, isn't greater?

Granted, physically measuring it is impossible, but does that make your belief anymore valid than theirs?

Doesn't the fact that We have differing Perspectives quantitatively mean that Our passion must also, some how, be measurably different?

Given that longevity would tend to bring about greater time to build up a stronger passion, doesn't it logically follow that those of Us who have been around longer might have a greater passion about TOS?

(mind you, though I haven't specifically said so up to this point, I have been talking about Our passion toward TOS since this movie deals directly with it.)

And why does someones opinion have to be utterly irrational just because it's different from yours?

And please take note, I did not drag you back, you chose to comment one more time.

 

[trekkerguy]

Now since you mention berating people, in my opinion berating the new movie because of how it looks, and what you think you've seen in the trailers, without giving it a chance, is against what trek is all about.

Agreed, not much embracing and exploring the unknown there.

On topic...

I don't see how Trek canon could be dead because of this film.
Trekguide.com probably made the most sense out of it all, and infact
all of Trek's position when it comes to canon and timeline.

I'll go with that explanation.

 

[DaveyNY]

Now since you mention berating people, in my opinion berating the new movie because of how it looks, and what you think you've seen in the trailers, without giving it a chance, is against what trek is all about.

Agreed, not much embracing and exploring the unknown there.

On topic...

I don't see how Trek canon could be dead because of this film.
Trekguide.com probably made the most sense out of it all, and infact
all of Trek's position when it comes to canon and timeline.

I'll go with that explanation.

I'd think I will have to agree with that assumption, at least untill I see the movie.
I also doubt that Trek Lore will die outright because of Trek XI, but it might bring about a lingering death for some folks.

BTW: Embracing works best if it's used in both directions.

 

[trekkerguy]

BTW: Embracing works best if it's used in both directions.

I... don't really know what you're suggesting.

 

[SPCTRE]

BTW: Embracing works best if it's used in both directions.

I... don't really know what you're suggesting.

Come on guys, reconciliatory man hug!

 

[trekkerguy]

Come on guys, reconciliatory man hug!

Uuuuh yeeeaah. No. lol