Well said.
Orci on Start Trek, timelines, canon and everything (SPOILERS)
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Dead on. This is a carefully calculated strategy designed to smooth over any variances with Trek as already depicted. The "easy" way would be a complete roots-up reboot that has no touchstones to previous iterations of Trek.
This sounds suspiciously like something I talked about weeks ago. Let's see, now, where did I put that link?
What I love about Orci's explanation is that, if this film turns out to be the brainless pap I'm starting to think it is, ANOTHER reboot is completely plausible and acceptable within canon. This time with some hard science fiction-based space opera. Maybe getting Peter F. Hamilton to take over as the producer. With Larry Niven, Ben Bova, and James P. Hogan writing.
What I love about Orci's explanation is that, if this film turns out to be the brainless pap I'm starting to think it is, ANOTHER reboot is completely plausible and acceptable within canon. This time with some hard science fiction-based space opera. Maybe getting Peter F. Hamilton to take over as the producer. With Larry Niven, Ben Bova, and James P. Hogan writing.
Re: Bob Orci on Start Trek, timelines, canon and everything (SPOILERS)
Sounds just like a ST bulletin board.
I just wasted a few minutes reading that, the interviewer asked the same question over and over and over again and then, just to be sure, he asked it AGAIN.
Sounds just like a ST bulletin board.
You're right. We're all going to die for liking the wrong Trek. What, am I in church here?
Heh. Imagine that.
Then it would be pointless. Are the changes in this movie pointless?
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Yes, yes you are (didn't you get the memo)?
One thing I've always hated is the stupid idea that a time traveler's messing with history can create a whole new universe, rather than change the one he's from/in.
I suppose it helps take the "grandfather thing" out of the picture (kill your own grandfather in the past before your father is conceived, and you erase yourself), but it still sounds stupid.
How can a whole universe suddenly pop into existence, with the same past as another, yet divergent from this point on? Where does the matter/energy composing it come from? And do the people of that universe have totally WRONG ideas about how their universe began? (Since it did NOT begin billions/trillions of years ago, but rather last week, suddenly appearing in its present form?)
I like the idea that time can be changed without new universes popping up.
This makes far more sense to me. Sorry.
Once I've accepted that the timeline has been changed by the Romulans early enough to result in the visual changes we see, I can accept the changes, and even hope that things sort of "iron out" over the years so that Picard's era is pretty much as we knew it.
To think that the two are co-existing is weird, and annoying.
Eh.
I suppose it helps take the "grandfather thing" out of the picture (kill your own grandfather in the past before your father is conceived, and you erase yourself), but it still sounds stupid.
How can a whole universe suddenly pop into existence, with the same past as another, yet divergent from this point on? Where does the matter/energy composing it come from? And do the people of that universe have totally WRONG ideas about how their universe began? (Since it did NOT begin billions/trillions of years ago, but rather last week, suddenly appearing in its present form?)
I like the idea that time can be changed without new universes popping up.
This makes far more sense to me. Sorry.
Once I've accepted that the timeline has been changed by the Romulans early enough to result in the visual changes we see, I can accept the changes, and even hope that things sort of "iron out" over the years so that Picard's era is pretty much as we knew it.
To think that the two are co-existing is weird, and annoying.
Eh.
Actually, the new timeline can endure any conceivable reshuffling of events and still work out okay, it being a work of fiction and all.
"Obligation"? So if the film were scrupulously tailored to fit into the lacunae of previously established Trek lore, you'd be going to see it... out of obligation?
Whatever turns you on. Personally, I'm going to go see it because I like Star Trek...
Yes, yes you are (didn't you get the memo)?
I'd better look busy then. I think the ghost of Gene Roddenberry is coming.
Oh SHUSH!
You're just mad you end up with some other job and not the first Captain of the Enterprise!
I gotta admit the look of the Kelvin is a bit TMP-ish as far as the deflector goes. How could the Romulans have affected that if the Kelvin is their first attempt at changing the past?
Still, it's possible that was an early attempt at that type of deflector that Starfleet gave up on until they worked out a few bugs. That could work in either timeline.
By the way...
We have NO idea how subspace/warp tech works, and since it's the aspect of a subspace field interacting with the gravity of a sun that causes the slingshot effect to work, it could still work in the new timeline (what's changed there?!?!) and I've seen NOTHING so far that would undo the events that lead to Star Trek IV.
Why do you think these people won't be "in the right places and jobs" at the right time?
If anything, as I mentioned in another post, Kirk may get the Enterprise a year or two EARLY in this new timeline.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=76585
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The thing is, you don't have to take Orci's explanation into consideration when watching the movie. I feel confident there won't be an impromptu 20 minute lecture on quantum mechanics in the middle of the film. So just assume what you'd like (as it won't matter to the story in any event, according to the article).
I had an idea for a story once (a novel or a screenplay--never got beyond describing the outline to a few friends) involving time travel. A 40 year old man accidentally gets sent 60 or so years into the past, with no way of going home. I did not view it as a parallel universe. The main dilemma for the man was trying, as much as possible, not to alter history so as to prevent his younger self from meeting his wife and having children together. This poses a few ethical and moral questions for him. Should he save someone with CPR who clearly would have died otherwise? Should he intervene in any number of situations he knows will otherwise result in tragedy? (I avoided the JFK assassination as a cliche but that would be an example.) Should he make himself wealthy? Should he kill himself to avoid affecting the timeline? Or is he part of "what was meant to be" and, if by choosing not to interact, might he then be changing history despite his intentions?--Each of these issues requires, for the purpose of the story, that time travel happen within the same time line. Otherwise, there is no real drama or dilemma.
However, my (limited) understanding of speculation about time travel and the nature of quantum mechanics suggests that one cannot (even theoretically) actually travel to the past of a timeline, make any alteration, and return to the future of the same timeline. The alteration results in a new branch, so to speak. And I've read/seen a number of sci/fi stories that use this interpretation to great effect. Star Trek has used each interpretation (though it has tended more towards the "single timeline", IMO) successfully.
Ultimately, I plan to take the movie at face value and simply think of it as one of the two types of time travel theories--whichever seems most applicable when I view it.
I'm sorry, do you honestly expect any adult here to be in any way interested, much less impressed by this twaddle?
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
So, it's a reboot, but it's NOT a reboot because the cause of the reboot comes from the "canon" universe...?
Talk about trying to keep an eaten cake!
Even Bill Clinton didn't parse his words THIS badly!
(and, for the record, I'm ok with a reboot...)
Talk about trying to keep an eaten cake!
Even Bill Clinton didn't parse his words THIS badly!
(and, for the record, I'm ok with a reboot...)
Enjoy the movie, everyone. Remember, it is in the end, a fictional universe, and a reimagining is perfectly acceptable. There is no reason to worry if our heroes are in the right place to save earth in TVH, because, you know, TVH is a fictional story.
Where would the drama be if we know the main characters ultimate fates? The only way to revisit the characters and preserve any dramatic impact is to reboot the continuity. Orci's explaination is meant to satisfy the canonista concern that XI will eliminate the existing continuity. I don't know why he bothered. No explanation will satisfy them.
My only request of the Abrams crew is to make a good movie. The fans will work out the continuity questions themselves. One way or another, and perhaps on a per case basis.
Where would the drama be if we know the main characters ultimate fates? The only way to revisit the characters and preserve any dramatic impact is to reboot the continuity. Orci's explaination is meant to satisfy the canonista concern that XI will eliminate the existing continuity. I don't know why he bothered. No explanation will satisfy them.
My only request of the Abrams crew is to make a good movie. The fans will work out the continuity questions themselves. One way or another, and perhaps on a per case basis.
I don't mind a reboot, they can be fun, but I had been kind of looking forward to a prequel, which is a whole different kind of fun.
If they're going to go this route, I'd prefer they do it the way Enterprise did. Have the time travel there from the start, but don't make it explicit within the story that this has resulted in a whole new timeline. That way anyone, fan or pro, who feels that any change was too big can handwave it away, or not, if they feel like it.
I guess everyone who is complaining about the 'playing it safe' aspect of all this would like this way even less. But I see nothing wrong with having it both ways, if you can swing it.
If they're going to go this route, I'd prefer they do it the way Enterprise did. Have the time travel there from the start, but don't make it explicit within the story that this has resulted in a whole new timeline. That way anyone, fan or pro, who feels that any change was too big can handwave it away, or not, if they feel like it.
I guess everyone who is complaining about the 'playing it safe' aspect of all this would like this way even less. But I see nothing wrong with having it both ways, if you can swing it.
Stop it Polaris, you'll bring more upon us!
In every practical way, this IS a reboot.
Orci's behind the scenes explanation is just that, behind the scenes.
It's only meant to accomodate a small fanatical audience of drooling nerds.
I doubt it'll be something brought up in the movie itself or in future films/series.
It's certainly a way to do a Reboot without doing a Reboot.
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