Why TT?

[darkshadow0001]

I think Time Travel was the only way to bring Leonard Nimoy into the film. Even if Star Trek started in the 23rd Century, some form of time travel would have to occur if Nimoy was to be a part of it. They really couldn't have a "young" version of Nimoy automatically in the 23rd Century because of his age. Besides, I think it's a good idea. If this movie doesn't make it big, then it would be easy to tell 24th century stories again.

I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that Nimoy would play Spock's father in the movie, so that would also have been a way to have a Nimoy cameo. Of course it wouldn't be Spock, but everyone would get the hint. I guess by dragging the 'real Spock' into this movie, you need to either address questions as to what happened to him since TNG's Unification (and thus get entangled in 'the old Trek' again) or risk pissing a lot of people of. Ah well, we'll see.

I don't know if I would of liked that idea. I remember when Back to the Future II came out and Michael J. Fox was to play several parts for his family in the future that I wasn't to crazy about that idea, either. Nobody could play Sarek better then Mark Lenard.

 

[Siwilliams]

I would say its because Abrams wanted to update the franchise but if he just made a movie that started with a new Kirk/Spock, he knew the fans would be in an uproar and scream reboot.

they already are

 

[Franklin]

Btw, I thank you for showing us these figures. It's not that I do not appreciate the reality of these numbers, it's just that I don't think that people gut reaction to 'yet another time travel story' is based on the number, but more on the feeling these stories left them with.

Edit: judging by your signature, you'll appreciate my last remark above.

Yeah. I wasn't posting those figures to be snarky, but I've always said the idea that time travel is a Trek "gimmick" or it's "overused" is a matter of distorted perspective and overestimation of its use based on so many of the episodes also being fan favorites.

Of the five TOS time travel episodes:
-- "City on the Edge of Forever" is generally considered the favorite TOS episode among fans.
-- "Tomorrow is Yesterday" is another popular episode.
-- "The Naked Time" is a good episode that involved time travel in only the most tangential way (getting three days to live over again).
-- Only "Assignment Earth" and "All Our Yesterdays", are problematic stories.

In the movies, two of the three time travel movies, TVH and FC were the most popular cross-over pictures and among the box office successes. Abrams is hoping to make it three of four.

If time travel was a crutch in the Trek series, it may have been that it seemed to be pulled out when something "big" was neeed. A sweeps story. Or in the case of TNG and VOY an epic story with which to wrap up the series.

 

[gastrof]

...According to Memory Alpha, time travel episodes per series are (and I've counted two-parters as one episode, or story):
-- TOS = 5 episodes in 79 shows.
-- TAS = 1 episode in two seasons.
-- Movies = 3 of the 10 movies.
-- TNG = 11 in seven seasons.
-- DS9 = 9 in seven seasons.
-- VOY = 11 in seven seasons.
-- ENT = 8 in four seasons.

That's 48 times in over 700 Star Trek stories of various types (or less than 7 percent)...

I'm sorry, but what was the third movie to use time travel?

There's "The Voyage Home", there's "First Contact", and...what?

Can't really say "Generations" because Kirk lived thru all those years. He just experienced the passage of the time differently.

What's the third movie to use time travel? I'm drawing a complete blank.

EDIT:
Ah...wait a minute. In "Generations", Picard did use a little time travel, returning to the real world at a point BEFORE Soran launched. Okay. If that's the third, then so it is. (If not, then, are there four?)

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

...According to Memory Alpha, time travel episodes per series are (and I've counted two-parters as one episode, or story):
-- TOS = 5 episodes in 79 shows.
-- TAS = 1 episode in two seasons.
-- Movies = 3 of the 10 movies.
-- TNG = 11 in seven seasons.
-- DS9 = 9 in seven seasons.
-- VOY = 11 in seven seasons.
-- ENT = 8 in four seasons.

That's 48 times in over 700 Star Trek stories of various types (or less than 7 percent)...

I'm sorry, but what was the third movie to use time travel?

There's "The Voyage Home", there's "First Contact", and...what?

Can't really say "Generations" because Kirk lived thru all those years. He just experienced the passage of the time differently.

What's the third movie to use time travel? I'm drawing a complete blank.

EDIT:
Ah...wait a minute. In "Generations", Picard did use a little time travel, returning to the real world at a point BEFORE Soran launched. Okay. If that's the third, then so it is. (If not, then, are there four?)

Generations is the 3rd. From the Nexus, you can exit at any point in time. If Kirk had left the Nexus at the same time as entering (exact moment on E-B), then he wouldn't have time traveled, but since he left in the 24th C, he did time travel. Kirk did not "experience time differently during those years" because time has no meaning in the Nexus. There is no perception of time there, there is no time passage, so leaving at any point that wasn't the time point of entry would qualify as time travel.

 

[gastrof]

...I remember when Back to the Future II came out and Michael J. Fox was to play several parts for his family in the future that I wasn't to crazy about that idea, either...

To be honest, it was okay that he played Marty and Marlene in part two. You could figure cloning/genetic-engineering led to how the kids looked.

Even his ancestor in part three...

But Lea Thompson playing one of his female ancestors...MARRIED to a McFly?

Ummm...

That was a bit odd.

A twin of his mother is also one of his "many-greats" grandmothers?

Sort of explains George in high school. Don't see HOW he ended up the man he was (new timeline).

 

[gastrof]

...Kirk did not "experience time differently during those years" because time has no meaning in the Nexus. There is no perception of time there, there is no time passage, so leaving at any point that wasn't the time point of entry would qualify as time travel.

Actually, Guinan's "echo" told Picard that 'from Kirk's point of view he'd just arrived'.

The fact remains that Guinan's echo seemed to recognize time had passed, and was acknowledging it.

This means that Kirk didn't time travel into the future, but as you said experienced the passage of time differently than someone outside the Nexus would.

Picard and Kirk DID time travel, however, since they returned at a point in time both of them had already lived thru.

As a side point, I wonder how much "echo" Guinan knew of Picard. Certainly she'd have the real Guinan's memories of San Francisco back in the days of Mark Twain, and would recall Picard from there, but seemed also to know he'd known her "again" by the time he entered the Nexus.

Interesting.

Maybe Guinan's "mystery" and possible "time perception" were already there even before she'd entered the Nexus, and weren't something she gained from that experience.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

^^ Guinan's echo did not experience the passage of time. There was no time passage in the Nexus. Kirk and Picard entered at the same time, only from different starting points in time. No matter when you enter the Nexus, you always end up at the same point in "time" in the Nexus. There is no time in the Nexus. Guinan's echo did not experience time, but she was knew enough to know that there was no passage of time. Guinan's echo knew that Kirk and Picard were coming from different time starting points. It is also believed that Guinan's echo had a special connection with the 'real world' Guinan that helped her understand how 'real world' Guinan was experiencing time.

If Picard and Kirk had exited the Nexus in the 83rd Century, would you say they lived through all those years? If Picard had exited to Kirk's era, would you say he lived through all the years backwards?

 

[3D Master]

And its possible that

Starfleet builds the Enterprise on the ground because they need more ships as fast as possible to deal with a possible war and they decide the adding ground based starship construction facilities would help them by allowing them to build ships in space and on the ground thus making it possible to build up fleet strength.

I thought I would post this before someome brings up the ship built on the ground thing.

...using the limited space of ground-based construction versus the wide unlimited space of space construction, simply expanding already existing massive space fleet yards; opting instead of building facilities on the ground where you can build just ONE ship.

Oh, yes! I can see it! That so improves the ability increase production!

...except that it does the opposite, but eh.

 

[Butters]

 

[M'Sharak]

And its possible that

Starfleet builds the Enterprise on the ground because they need more ships as fast as possible to deal with a possible war and they decide the adding ground based starship construction facilities would help them by allowing them to build ships in space and on the ground thus making it possible to build up fleet strength.

I thought I would post this before someome brings up the ship built on the ground thing.

...using the limited space of ground-based construction versus the wide unlimited space of space construction, simply expanding already existing massive space fleet yards; opting instead of building facilities on the ground where you can build just ONE ship.

Oh, yes! I can see it! That so improves the ability increase production!

...except that it does the opposite, but eh.

*ahem*

We've heard that opinion already. The topic of this thread is "Why time travel?" Kindly adhere to it.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Three out of ten Star Trek movies have used time travel. That actually is a lot. It's even more distressing when you realize they used some sort of time travel two films in a row. The TOS films at least only did it one time.

You know what kind of Star Trek movie I'd like to see? One that has to do with exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations. Not going through time, having space battles, pissing off Klingons or being "the only ship in the quadrant". No more "Moby Dick" stories, no "personal enemies" and no "comedy" plots. A real sci-fi story with some allegory and sharp writing.

I wish somebody, ANYBODY, would bring back the real essense of Star Trek. Cuz nobody's done it in a really long time. And going by the clips, this film isn't going to be what I'm looking for either.

 

[3D Master]

And its possible that

Starfleet builds the Enterprise on the ground because they need more ships as fast as possible to deal with a possible war and they decide the adding ground based starship construction facilities would help them by allowing them to build ships in space and on the ground thus making it possible to build up fleet strength.

I thought I would post this before someome brings up the ship built on the ground thing.

...using the limited space of ground-based construction versus the wide unlimited space of space construction, simply expanding already existing massive space fleet yards; opting instead of building facilities on the ground where you can build just ONE ship.

Oh, yes! I can see it! That so improves the ability increase production!

...except that it does the opposite, but eh.

*ahem*

We've heard that opinion already. The topic of this thread is "Why time travel?" Kindly adhere to it.

Odd you didn't bother to tell Hartzilla that.

 

[Qonos]

...using the limited space of ground-based construction versus the wide unlimited space of space construction, simply expanding already existing massive space fleet yards; opting instead of building facilities on the ground where you can build just ONE ship.

Oh, yes! I can see it! That so improves the ability increase production!

...except that it does the opposite, but eh.

*ahem*

We've heard that opinion already. The topic of this thread is "Why time travel?" Kindly adhere to it.

Odd you didn't bother to tell Hartzilla that.

Because his statement was in context to the Time Travel and its effects on this altered timeline. A causality if you will spawned from the use of the Time Travel plot.

You see it's all in the context of the post. Wait no you won't see it.

 

[3D Master]

*ahem*

We've heard that opinion already. The topic of this thread is "Why time travel?" Kindly adhere to it.

Odd you didn't bother to tell Hartzilla that.

Because his statement was in context to the Time Travel and its effects on this altered timeline. A causality if you will spawned from the use of the Time Travel plot.

You see it's all in the context of the post. Wait no you won't see it.

The context doesn't matter. The moment any claim is allowed to be made, a refute is allowed to be made. If one couldn't, it would end all discussion. You could start a thread with a topic, and then wrap something else in the "context of the topic" and presto, nobody would be allowed to refute the claim.

 

[Borgminister]

Odd you didn't bother to tell Hartzilla that.

Because his statement was in context to the Time Travel and its effects on this altered timeline. A causality if you will spawned from the use of the Time Travel plot.

You see it's all in the context of the post. Wait no you won't see it.

The context doesn't matter. The moment any claim is allowed to be made, a refute is allowed to be made. If one couldn't, it would end all discussion. You could start a thread with a topic, and then wrap something else in the "context of the topic" and presto, nobody would be allowed to refute the claim.

That's why BOTH quotes were included in the reminder to stick to topic; at least that's how I read it...

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Three out of ten Star Trek movies have used time travel. That actually is a lot. It's even more distressing when you realize they used some sort of time travel two films in a row. The TOS films at least only did it one time.

You know what kind of Star Trek movie I'd like to see? One that has to do with exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations. Not going through time, having space battles, pissing off Klingons or being "the only ship in the quadrant". No more "Moby Dick" stories, no "personal enemies" and no "comedy" plots. A real sci-fi story with some allegory and sharp writing.

*applause*

I wish somebody, ANYBODY, would bring back the real essense of Star Trek. Cuz nobody's done it in a really long time. And going by the clips, this film isn't going to be what I'm looking for either.

Paramount seems entirely incapable of rediscovering the sense of the vastness and loneliness of space, which seems to me to be one of the defining differences between TOS and all of Modern Trek. Modern Trek takes place in a very crowded galaxy, full of fleets of ships and with populated planets separated by a day or two worth of travel. TOS created a sense of exploration that was completely missing from all the rest of Trek - even VOY, which skipped off to the other side of the galaxy only to find it looked exactly like home - chock full of aliens with enemy fleets encountered again and again.

What I wouldn't give for a story that simply changed designs and actors and the fictional history with no convoluted in-story explanation. What I wouldn't give for a movie that just started with a star field and the voice over "Captain's Log, Stardate 8531.4. We've been mapping this unknown section of the galaxy for two months and ..."

 

[seigezunt]

it's all about the TT.

We thrive on TT.

I wanna see more TT, dammit!

 

[Hartzilla2007]

it's all about the TT.

We thrive on TT.

I wanna see more TT, dammit!

You want a DeLorean don't you.

 

[btflash]

Three out of ten Star Trek movies have used time travel. That actually is a lot. It's even more distressing when you realize they used some sort of time travel two films in a row. The TOS films at least only did it one time.

You know what kind of Star Trek movie I'd like to see? One that has to do with exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations. Not going through time, having space battles, pissing off Klingons or being "the only ship in the quadrant". No more "Moby Dick" stories, no "personal enemies" and no "comedy" plots. A real sci-fi story with some allegory and sharp writing.

I wish somebody, ANYBODY, would bring back the real essense of Star Trek. Cuz nobody's done it in a really long time. And going by the clips, this film isn't going to be what I'm looking for either.