PHASE II successful?

[Captain Robert April]

That scene in "The Naked Now" with Data and Tasha was plain and simple payback for a similar scene being nixed from "The Questor Tapes" (see the album "Inside Star Trek"; "How many times in your writing career will you have a chance to create a whole new area of intolerance?")

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Some people point to the season 1 TNG scripts that were re-writes of Phase 2 scripts as being examples of weak scripts. I disagree...they may have been weak because they were not written for that cast nor for the more 'diplomatic' approach that show took. However, the underlying concept or theme was classic TREK and one could well imagine Jim Kirk and the rest pulling the story off far more entertainingly.

AFAIK, the only two Phase II stories that made it to TNG intact were The Child and Devil's Due both in Season 2. I can easily see both with the TOS/Phase II cast, but they also worked pretty well as TNG stories. I think The Child benefitted from having Pulaski on deck rather than Crusher.

The one Phase II script I would love to see adapted as either a feature (or a novel for that matter) is Kitumba. Woulda been a great klingon story for the time when we still didn;t know a whole lot about the klingons.

Devil's Due was actually in season 4 of TNG.

 

[Mallory]

Fuck you, spambot. Do not presume to speak for me, on this or any other subject.

Infraction issued. Comments via PM.

 

[Mysterion]

Devil's Due was actually in season 4 of TNG.

You're right. I stand corrected, sir.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I've read several of the completed scripts for "Phase II." The only one that impressed me as better-than-mediocre was "Kitumba." Obviously, your mileage may vary.

 

[Ronald Held]

I agree that Data is essentially Questar.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The successful sale of television rights in several foreign markets were what eventually made the show feasible.

Actually, what made it feasible was selling the international home video rights in various countries, with a guaranteed twelve-month "video holdback", which meant that TV networks could commit to buying the rights to TNG but had wait an extra year to screen it.

They were also able to stretch the budget for the building of the standing sets across a projected five years. Creative accounting.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I agree that Data is essentially Questar.

Questor.

Is there an echo in here? Just kidding - nice to see I wasn't misremembering.

I answered the post before reading your response. We were both obviously channeling from the cosmic consciousness that day.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Okay, bubba, I found my PHASE II book...and I will educated those of you, and others, who do not believe TNG was pretty much PHASE II done over again..

On the seventh page of the book, Jon Provil makes it quite clear, that elements of Phase II would be used for TNG..from Xon being like Data. From Riker/Troi relationship being Decker/Ilya in Phase 2...Even the Kirk/Picard as the aged pros and Decker/Riker as the young up and comers were, according to Provil, brought over to TNG...Elements were altered, but the nuts and the bolts are as true now as they were when TNG was being prepped: GR just took his series concept for Phase 2, redressed it here and there, and TNG was born...read the BOOK...its all right there...

case close..

Rob

 

[Therin of Andor]

Elements were altered, but the nuts and the bolts are as true now as they were when TNG was being prepped: GR just took his series concept for Phase 2, redressed it here and there, and TNG was born...read the BOOK...its all right there...
case close..

No one was denying those several strong links between "Phase II" and TNG, Robert, but David Gerrold had nothing whatsoever to do with "Phase II", and yet he was called in to write the Writers' Bible for TNG - and he added numerous elements from his infamous, final chapter in "The World of Star Trek", in which he mentioned some major problems with TOS and suggested how they could be rectified should a new live version of TOS ever come along.

The characters of Beverly Crusher, her daughter, Lesley, and perhaps much of Tasha Yar (originally Macha Hernandez, head of all away teams, and modelled on dark-haired, short, feisty Jeanette Goldstein's character in "Aliens"), IIRC, were also David's additions. The Tasha name dates back to "Tasha" the Probe in "In Thy Image". (Chekov thought its pearlescent appearance, before duplicating Ilia, reminded him of his Aunt Tasha's pearl ring.)

The idea of Geordi LaForge can be traced back, not to "Phase II", but to David Gerrold's novel, "The Galactic Whirlpool", where an Admiral George LaForge was named for a ST fan with muscular dystrophy.

The holodeck came from "The Practical Joker" (TAS).

Then there was the re-use of Data from "The Questor Tapes".

Then there was the development of Worf throughout Season One, who was originally a minor character in "Encounter at Farpoint", and may not have gone beyond a cameo, but for the writers' confidence in Michael Dorn.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Elements were altered, but the nuts and the bolts are as true now as they were when TNG was being prepped: GR just took his series concept for Phase 2, redressed it here and there, and TNG was born...read the BOOK...its all right there...
case close..

No one was denying those several strong links between "Phase II" and TNG, Robert, but David Gerrold had nothing whatsoever to do with "Phase II", and yet he was called in to write the Writers' Bible for TNG - and he added numerous elements from his infamous, final chapter in "The World of Star Trek", in which he mentioned some major problems with TOS and suggested how they could be rectified should a new live version of TOS ever come along.

The characters of Beverly Crusher, her daughter, Lesley, and perhaps much of Tasha Yar (originally Macha Hernandez, head of all away teams, and modelled on dark-haired, short, feisty Jeanette Goldstein's character in "Aliens"), IIRC, were also David's additions. The Tasha name dates back to "Tasha" the Probe in "In Thy Image". (Chekov thought its pearlescent appearance, before duplicating Ilia, reminded him of his Aunt Tasha's pearl ring.)

The idea of Geordi LaForge can be traced back, not to "Phase II", but to David Gerrold's novel, "The Galactic Whirlpool", where an Admiral George LaForge was named for a ST fan with muscular dystrophy.

The holodeck came from "The Practical Joker" (TAS).

Then there was the re-use of Data from "The Questor Tapes".

Then there was the development of Worf throughout Season One, who was originally a minor character in "Encounter at Farpoint", and may not have gone beyond a cameo, but for the writers' confidence in Michael Dorn.

No, it goes deeper than that...read this wonderfully crafted response from THE GOD THINRe: PHASE II successful?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SCORPIO SAYS, and Rightfully so, thatTNG is really PHASE 2 updated, we all know that.

Here is PART ONE of THE GOD THING's tirade

What unadulterated rubbish, which isn't at all surprising considering the source. (this is an attack on me...but of course, I am right) Phase II had scripts and treatments from writers on the order of Theodore Sturgeon, Norman Spinrad, Jerome Bixby and Richard Bach, along with TOS contributors Shimon Wincelberg and John Meredyth Lucas. ST:TNG had no comparable literary foundation.

Quote:
Fate was on our side on this one.

Fuck you, spambot. Do not presume to speak for me, on this or any other subject.

(This was a bit harsh, don't you think, but I bet he didn't get a warning...oh well...i was right, hew as wrong, life is a bitch isn't it)




TGT
G from earlier in this thread..

 

[RobertScorpio]

Elements were altered, but the nuts and the bolts are as true now as they were when TNG was being prepped: GR just took his series concept for Phase 2, redressed it here and there, and TNG was born...read the BOOK...its all right there...
case close..

No one was denying those several strong links between "Phase II" and TNG, Robert, but David Gerrold had nothing whatsoever to do with "Phase II", and yet he was called in to write the Writers' Bible for TNG - and he added numerous elements from his infamous, final chapter in "The World of Star Trek", in which he mentioned some major problems with TOS and suggested how they could be rectified should a new live version of TOS ever come along.

The characters of Beverly Crusher, her daughter, Lesley, and perhaps much of Tasha Yar (originally Macha Hernandez, head of all away teams, and modelled on dark-haired, short, feisty Jeanette Goldstein's character in "Aliens"), IIRC, were also David's additions. The Tasha name dates back to "Tasha" the Probe in "In Thy Image". (Chekov thought its pearlescent appearance, before duplicating Ilia, reminded him of his Aunt Tasha's pearl ring.)

The idea of Geordi LaForge can be traced back, not to "Phase II", but to David Gerrold's novel, "The Galactic Whirlpool", where an Admiral George LaForge was named for a ST fan with muscular dystrophy.

The holodeck came from "The Practical Joker" (TAS).

Then there was the re-use of Data from "The Questor Tapes".

Then there was the development of Worf throughout Season One, who was originally a minor character in "Encounter at Farpoint", and may not have gone beyond a cameo, but for the writers' confidence in Michael Dorn.

No, it goes deeper than that...read this wonderfully crafted response from THE GOD THINRe: PHASE II successful?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SCORPIO SAYS, and Rightfully so, thatTNG is really PHASE 2 updated, we all know that.

Here is PART ONE of THE GOD THING's tirade

What unadulterated rubbish, which isn't at all surprising considering the source. (this is an attack on me...but of course, I am right) Phase II had scripts and treatments from writers on the order of Theodore Sturgeon, Norman Spinrad, Jerome Bixby and Richard Bach, along with TOS contributors Shimon Wincelberg and John Meredyth Lucas. ST:TNG had no comparable literary foundation.

And yet TNG turned out pretty good, IMO. I read all 13 of those scripts and none of them were really that good..NONE OF THEM. You want to know how PHASE 2 would have ended up? Watch TNG season one...and that is where Phase Two was heading..IN TO THE TRASH CAN

Quote:
Fate was on our side on this one.

Fuck you, spambot. Do not presume to speak for me, on this or any other subject.

(This was a bit harsh, don't you think, but I bet he didn't get a warning...oh well...i was right, he as wrong on epic levels, life is a bitch isn't it)




TGT
G from earlier in this thread..

 

[Captain Robert April]

The fact of the matter is that Roddenberry never threw away an idea. TOS had bits and pieces that he'd had rattling around in his head since World War II, so naturally when he started working on TNG, he raided the material for Phase II, along with every other thing he'd done in the intervening years, especially the stuff that worked the best (Questor and Genesis II very nearly got bought as series, if it weren't for the usual network meddling that sent GR back to work on the next idea).

Riker and Deanna are direct descendants of Decker and Ilia, but Data owes a lot more to Questor than he ever did to Xon. Picard was essentially a combination of Kirk and Jacques Cousteau, Geordi was a tribute to a disabled fan, Tasha started off as a blatant ripoff of Vasquez in "Aliens", and Worf was Bob Justman's idea.

 

[Therin of Andor]

No, it goes deeper than that...read this wonderfully crafted response from THE GOD THINRe: PHASE II successful?

The God Thing is well-known for his wonderfully crafted responses. (He and I were in the same preview screening of ST II. We shopped in the same book and comic stores. We reach.)

I read his post the first time, thanks. I've also read six original "Phase II" scripts.

My reply wasn't aimed at The God Thing, anyway, it was responding to your incorrect and misleading statements, as quoted in my post.

 

[gottacook]

This whole discussion of the great unknown history of TNG is welcome. In autumn 1986 (just before the release of the fourth movie), I saw Gene Roddenberry at either the College of St. Thomas or College of St. Catherine (they're both in St. Paul, MN, within a few blocks of one another). He gave a talk followed by Q&A and a black-and-white print of "The Cage." Not once was a prospective new series mentioned, although he did refer to an alien character (whose name I forget) whom he had created to make observations about us foolish humans. Was he legally constrained from talking about the new Trek series until the syndication agreement was in place? If not, why wouldn't he have said it was being developed? Anyone else see him during what I presume was a tour of colleges around that time?

By the time of Glen Larson, you didn't have many character actors left out there. Shows, like Battlestar Galactica, which desperately could have used strong 'villains / recurring' roles didn't have them.

I haven't seen an episode of Galactica in at least 20 years, but wasn't John Colicos the main recurring villain? I always thought he was terrific in "Errand of Mercy" - perhaps the problem was with the Galactica scripts and not the actor.

One last response to the above: What on earth is wrong with revisiting and making use of ideas from decades earlier? Three years ago, the weekly magazine where I work as an editor initiated a podcast series and I was asked to contribute the music; it turned out that the most suitable theme for the top of the show each week was something I'd first come up with in 1972 (albeit with more interesting harmonies in the new version). Any composer, and probably any creative artist in any field of endeavor, will often rummage through and repurpose old bits when coming up with something "new."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The successful sale of television rights in several foreign markets were what eventually made the show feasible.

Actually, what made it feasible was selling the international home video rights in various countries, with a guaranteed twelve-month "video holdback", which meant that TV networks could commit to buying the rights to TNG but had wait an extra year to screen it.

Your memory for details is better than mine. I stand corrected.

Other than a couple of character concepts - Riker and Troi, mainly - TNG didn't owe much of anything to "Phase II." Interesting as it is to read about and cool as a few of the designs might have been, the stories were certainly no better and in many cases not as good as early TNG (a nifty sf concept does not a story make, sorry). The economics of the time were against the whole thing. "Star Trek" dodged a bullet when this project folded. TNG, on the other hand, turned Trek into a legitimate television hit for the first time and the Franchise managed to run largely on that energy for fifteen years.

 

[QuasarVM]

This whole discussion of the great unknown history of TNG is welcome. In autumn 1986 (just before the release of the fourth movie), I saw Gene Roddenberry at either the College of St. Thomas or College of St. Catherine (they're both in St. Paul, MN, within a few blocks of one another). He gave a talk followed by Q&A and a black-and-white print of "The Cage." Not once was a prospective new series mentioned, although he did refer to an alien character (whose name I forget) whom he had created to make observations about us foolish humans. Was he legally constrained from talking about the new Trek series until the syndication agreement was in place? If not, why wouldn't he have said it was being developed? Anyone else see him during what I presume was a tour of colleges around that time?

By the time of Glen Larson, you didn't have many character actors left out there. Shows, like Battlestar Galactica, which desperately could have used strong 'villains / recurring' roles didn't have them.

I haven't seen an episode of Galactica in at least 20 years, but wasn't John Colicos the main recurring villain? I always thought he was terrific in "Errand of Mercy" - perhaps the problem was with the Galactica scripts and not the actor.

One last response to the above: What on earth is wrong with revisiting and making use of ideas from decades earlier? Three years ago, the weekly magazine where I work as an editor initiated a podcast series and I was asked to contribute the music; it turned out that the most suitable theme for the top of the show each week was something I'd first come up with in 1972 (albeit with more interesting harmonies in the new version). Any composer, and probably any creative artist in any field of endeavor, will often rummage through and repurpose old bits when coming up with something "new."

John Colicos was excellent on Galactica.

The new Galactica is dull and boring. I tried very hard to get into it...but it's just wallpaper to me...

BOR-ING.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

This whole discussion of the great unknown history of TNG is welcome. In autumn 1986 (just before the release of the fourth movie), I saw Gene Roddenberry at either the College of St. Thomas or College of St. Catherine (they're both in St. Paul, MN, within a few blocks of one another). He gave a talk followed by Q&A and a black-and-white print of "The Cage." Not once was a prospective new series mentioned, although he did refer to an alien character (whose name I forget) whom he had created to make observations about us foolish humans.

That was from his unfinished science-fiction novel, though it's hard to tell from David Alexander's biography whether Roddenberry actually wrote any of it, or if it was just an idea that Roddenberry wanted to do something with.

Was he legally constrained from talking about the new Trek series until the syndication agreement was in place? If not, why wouldn't he have said it was being developed? Anyone else see him during what I presume was a tour of colleges around that time?

A new Star Trek series was a big story; Paramount wanted to roll it out on their terms. Having the producer go around on a whistlestop college tour talking about it wouldn't have been productive.

The thing I've long been curious about is Greg Strangis' series. Bennett and Nimoy said no, Paramount turned to Strangis who put together a bible, and when Roddenberry saw the writing on the wall, that Paramount was going to make a new Star Trek series, he got himself dealt back in, and Strangis was out.

 

[RobertScorpio]

This whole discussion of the great unknown history of TNG is welcome. In autumn 1986 (just before the release of the fourth movie), I saw Gene Roddenberry at either the College of St. Thomas or College of St. Catherine (they're both in St. Paul, MN, within a few blocks of one another). He gave a talk followed by Q&A and a black-and-white print of "The Cage." Not once was a prospective new series mentioned, although he did refer to an alien character (whose name I forget) whom he had created to make observations about us foolish humans.

That was from his unfinished science-fiction novel, though it's hard to tell from David Alexander's biography whether Roddenberry actually wrote any of it, or if it was just an idea that Roddenberry wanted to do something with.

Was he legally constrained from talking about the new Trek series until the syndication agreement was in place? If not, why wouldn't he have said it was being developed? Anyone else see him during what I presume was a tour of colleges around that time?

A new Star Trek series was a big story; Paramount wanted to roll it out on their terms. Having the producer go around on a whistlestop college tour talking about it wouldn't have been productive.

The thing I've long been curious about is Greg Strangis' series. Bennett and Nimoy said no, Paramount turned to Strangis who put together a bible, and when Roddenberry saw the writing on the wall, that Paramount was going to make a new Star Trek series, he got himself dealt back in, and Strangis was out.

Huh..this is very interesting info..I wonder what kind of series that would have brought about?

Rob

 

[trevanian]

I thought the Strangis thing was focusing on cadets aboard ship (a la Bennett's early take on TWOK), or was that another GR spin on the truth?